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How should I discipline radio abuse/misuse?

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Danny37

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I run a fleet of radios for a volunteer ambulance Corp. we use a combo of kenwoods, vertexs and motorolas that I program and maintaine myself unless they need to go to a shop to get repaired etc. our members keep abusing the radios that are "loaned" to them for example all radios are kept at the base and whenever a member takes a radio out they need to sign it out in a log book. What I've noticed is members putting electric tape or rubber band around the whip antenna bending it 180 degrees. I've gone ahead and replace numerous antennas on these because the stress that were put on the rubber antenna caused them to crack and fall apart exposing the metal whip. Another issue is members taping the antenna to the shoulder mic, when they yank the shoulder mic it yanks the antenna which has damaged antenna connectors before. I'm at my wits end dealing with these children who have no respect for company issued radios. I've taken this up to the higher ups who don't seem to care and blow it off in fear that disciplining volunteer members will make them want to leave. It's hard to get people to volunteer these days, especially with people usually working 60 hour work weeks.

Another issue I'm having is radios being left in the charging when fully charged and members not using the leather holsters/straps for the radios causing dings and cracks to the radios.

Anyone here have experience maintaining a radio fleet and how have you followed through with your disciplinary actions?

Sorry if this seems like a rant, I'm a bit frustrated with the lack of etiquette these guys have.
 

Voyager

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Cameras and signed policies prohibiting such actions. Followed by enforcement.

I would get some more durable radios, too.

If you have enough, assign radios. It's amazing how much better someone will take care of "their" radio. Make them responsible for it.

Although, if the higher ups don't have any issues paying the bills, why should you?
 

Voyager

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Make them pay for the damages. Again, having the signed policy is a prerequisite.

Consider stubby antennas if your coverage is strong enough (and it must be for that to work)
 

Danny37

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Cameras and signed policies prohibiting such actions. Followed by enforcement.

I would get some more durable radios, too.

If you have enough, assign radios. It's amazing how much better someone will take care of "their" radio. Make them responsible for it.

Although, if the higher ups don't have any issues paying the bills, why should you?

The thing is that radios are being banged into doors and walls. If they had the leather case attached I don't think the damage would be too bad. If they can't take care of loaners how could they be more responsible with assigned radios. I'm trying to work out a deal with a local radio shop so we can score 6 ht1250s with a gang charger but I don't feel comfortable yet to go through with it until members are more responsible.
 

Voyager

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The thing is that radios are being banged into doors and walls. If they had the leather case attached I don't think the damage would be too bad. If they can't take care of loaners how could they be more responsible with assigned radios. I'm trying to work out a deal with a local radio shop so we can score 6 ht1250s with a gang charger but I don't feel comfortable yet to go through with it until members are more responsible.

Simple: They are responsible for the damage to their radio. If the radio shop says it's beyond normal wear-and-tear, the employee pays the bill.
 

W8RMH

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Don't you have a command structure? Chief, Captain, etc. It is abuse of property which would fall under the command's responsibility. They are the ones who have to obtain the funding and purchase the equipment.
 

Danny37

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I wish it were that simple, I feel like my hands are tied because of the higher ups. I've actually said let XYZ member pay for the damaged antenna to a higher up and his response was "you're going to charge a person who volunteers 8 hours of their time $15? I hate this honestly, Im going to try to be more aggressive and see what comes of it.

The only thing that worries me abit about stubby antennas is how stiff they are and it's not common for people to have their radios pushed against a seat or even sitting on them if they use a strap so it may snap the antenna connector. I'm sure they would work fine since coverage isn't really an issue here just the higher up here insists on whip antenna since he's a retired cop who says stubby antennas don't have good coverage.
 

Danny37

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Don't you have a command structure? Chief, Captain, etc. It is abuse of property which would fall under the command's responsibility. They are the ones who have to obtain the funding and purchase the equipment.

It's gone down hill since last year, no one seems to care. I'm actually thinking about leaving to be honest with you.
 

mmckenna

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I've actually said let XYZ member pay for the damaged antenna to a higher up and his response was "you're going to charge a person who volunteers 8 hours of their time $15?

They have a valid point. You are working as volunteers. Getting 8 hours of free work out of someone and then going after them for $15 comes across as a bit petty. Not the way you want to treat volunteers. If the agency can run shifts like that and cover all the other costs, then they need to be able to support their radios properly. That includes absorbing costs of damage.

I hate this honestly, Im going to try to be more aggressive and see what comes of it.

I'd be cautious with that approach.
As they say, the squeaky wheel gets replaced. Try not to squeak too loud.

The only thing that worries me abit about stubby antennas is how stiff they are and it's not common for people to have their radios pushed against a seat or even sitting on them if they use a strap so it may snap the antenna connector. I'm sure they would work fine since coverage isn't really an issue here just the higher up here insists on whip antenna since he's a retired cop who says stubby antennas don't have good coverage.

You've got to remember that to them the radio is just another tool.
If the tool cannot handle the work, then you have the wrong tool. Try not to blame the user too much.

I see three issues going on:
Normal wear and tear.
Abuse.
Lack of training, maybe.

You need to remember that they are not radio techs. They don't know what bending the antenna back does to a radio, and the truth is they likely don't care. You are going to have a hard time forcing a volunteer to care.

Stubby antenna might be the answer, wether the higher ups like them or not. We had to do that for a few of our officers. The shorter ones didn't like the long VHF antennas. The antennas did work a bit better, but having to wear a radio that was constantly jabbing you in the armpit makes for a long shift. Understanding that keeping people happy is more important than the radio is key. Buying a few shorter antennas worked well enough and it kept the officers happy. In the end, that's what matters. Radios can be replaced a lot easier than people.

Abuse needs to be addressed, but carefully. What you might see as abuse might not be viewed the same by the users. Take some time to figure out what's going on and see if you can mitigate it.

I've seen radio abuse, and I've seen normal wear and tear. The wear happens. Leather cases can reduce it, but not eliminate it. They can help with abuse, but only so much. Some abuse is actually people just not caring. With volunteers, that's difficult to fix.

Training is important, however it's got to be done carefully. Users will lose interest pretty quick if you go too deep into it. Keep it light and easy. Get support from supervisors and managers. Pick a few basics to solve the issues you know you have and just focus on those.

Keep in mind they are just radios. They can be replaced. I know it can be a financial burden for the agency, but it's one they need to deal with. Maybe if you stop trying to protect them from the real costs, they'll start to see it's more of an issue than they thought. Let some of the radios break.
 

mmckenna

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It's gone down hill since last year, no one seems to care. I'm actually thinking about leaving to be honest with you.

That tells me you might be getting burned out. Maybe time to take a break? Vacation?
If you are doing the volunteer EMT thing out of the goodness of your heart and to help others, then focus on that. Maybe time for someone else to look after the radios.
 

kma371

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My opinion is, you have done your due diligence in letting the right people know about the problem. If they choose not to do anything about it, and it's not coming out of your pocket, then let it go. Just keep replacing them and when they see that 50 antennas were replaced in one year, you can tell them you told them so.

And document it all with words and pictures.
 

Voyager

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My opinion is, you have done your due diligence in letting the right people know about the problem. If they choose not to do anything about it, and it's not coming out of your pocket, then let it go. Just keep replacing them and when they see that 50 antennas were replaced in one year, you can tell them you told them so.

And document it all with words and pictures.

Agreed. If you're doing the work, maybe let the service company do the work. After all, cost is no object, right?

And again - snapping connectors? Buy some better quality radios. Again, money is no object, right?
 

Danny37

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They have a valid point. You are working as volunteers. Getting 8 hours of free work out of someone and then going after them for $15 comes across as a bit petty. Not the way you want to treat volunteers. If the agency can run shifts like that and cover all the other costs, then they need to be able to support their radios properly. That includes absorbing costs of damage.



I'd be cautious with that approach.
As they say, the squeaky wheel gets replaced. Try not to squeak too loud.



You've got to remember that to them the radio is just another tool.
If the tool cannot handle the work, then you have the wrong tool. Try not to blame the user too much.

I see three issues going on:
Normal wear and tear.
Abuse.
Lack of training, maybe.

You need to remember that they are not radio techs. They don't know what bending the antenna back does to a radio, and the truth is they likely don't care. You are going to have a hard time forcing a volunteer to care.

Stubby antenna might be the answer, wether the higher ups like them or not. We had to do that for a few of our officers. The shorter ones didn't like the long VHF antennas. The antennas did work a bit better, but having to wear a radio that was constantly jabbing you in the armpit makes for a long shift. Understanding that keeping people happy is more important than the radio is key. Buying a few shorter antennas worked well enough and it kept the officers happy. In the end, that's what matters. Radios can be replaced a lot easier than people.

Abuse needs to be addressed, but carefully. What you might see as abuse might not be viewed the same by the users. Take some time to figure out what's going on and see if you can mitigate it.

I've seen radio abuse, and I've seen normal wear and tear. The wear happens. Leather cases can reduce it, but not eliminate it. They can help with abuse, but only so much. Some abuse is actually people just not caring. With volunteers, that's difficult to fix.

Training is important, however it's got to be done carefully. Users will lose interest pretty quick if you go too deep into it. Keep it light and easy. Get support from supervisors and managers. Pick a few basics to solve the issues you know you have and just focus on those.

Keep in mind they are just radios. They can be replaced. I know it can be a financial burden for the agency, but it's one they need to deal with. Maybe if you stop trying to protect them from the real costs, they'll start to see it's more of an issue than they thought. Let some of the radios break.

You never cease to amaze me with your humbleness. I think I'm just frustrated with my position not being mutually respected and I'm a bit fed up. Like you guys said if they don't care then why should I? The issue is me having to keep asking for money to buy new antennas and speaker mics from the abuse they're getting and it can be a real pain in the rear to get the money sometimes.

The antenna connectors are a result of antennas being yanked on with force. In the case with the speaker mics being taped to the antenna causes the antenna to be jerked around. Another thing and I even witnessed this was people yanking on the antennas while taking them out of the charging bay. I had 2 motorolas xts 3000 and 1500 radios with broken antenna connectors and 1 kenwood. I don't think any radio is build to have tremendous stress on the antenna except for the APX line which seems to be very solid.

I have provided radio training to members it's usually very short about 15-20 minutes in length, for example a lot of times dispatchers have a hard time hearing people because instead of speaking into the speaker mic and they usually have them set on their chest, they'll just talk into the open air rather then directly or in the direction of the speaker mic.

I'll go ahead and pitch the idea of stubby antennas to the guys, I don't think it'll be a huge issue. You're right they just don't care and it's hard to make them care. I've been taking photos and logging down the troublesome members that keep going on with the abuse. Hopefully once the higher ups see how much I've been spending on the parts etc they'll put their foot down.
 

Danny37

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That tells me you might be getting burned out. Maybe time to take a break? Vacation?
If you are doing the volunteer EMT thing out of the goodness of your heart and to help others, then focus on that. Maybe time for someone else to look after the radios.

Before I came on they were using ht1000s that look like they were thrown in blenders with broken antennas and were using them. No one took care of them. I'm going to Japan in the summer for two weeks so I'll have some down time. I do love volunteering but sometimes I just don't feel it, it has to do more with company politics rather then the job itself.
 

62Truck

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In my organization if you're abusing equipment our officers will talk to you. if it continues to happen then you're suspended until the next commissioners meeting. Then its up to the commissioners to decided if you're staying our you're leaving. Few years ago we had one of our members stand on top of a brand new pool table in our rec-room that the fire company bought with money that we raised. Needless to say that member was asked to resign.
 

kb4mdz

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The antenna connectors are a result of antennas being yanked on with force. In the case with the speaker mics being taped to the antenna causes the antenna to be jerked around. Another thing and I even witnessed this was people yanking on the antennas while taking them out of the charging bay. I had 2 motorolas xts 3000 and 1500 radios with broken antenna connectors and 1 kenwood. I don't think any radio is build to have tremendous stress on the antenna except for the APX line which seems to be very solid.


My favorite line to my users about this is "Don't pick up the radio by the handle. Did your mama pick you up by your handle????" This is so odd-sounding that they think about it for a minute, and then they try to figure out which handle of theirs I'm talking about. Sometimes I'll point to their ear flapping off the side of their head. Sometimes, the light dawns in their eyes. Sometimes they think about other handles they might get picked up by (right, guys? guys??)

A couple more notes, in no particular order:

Are these guys allowed to handle needles? Give injections? Frankly, if that's how they treat their equipment and they have access to needles, drugs, sharp instruments and other stuff, I'd be kinda worried What city are you in, so I can avoid it in my travels. I don't want your guys working on me if I can avoid it.

Granted, yes, radios are tools. Some people take care of their tools better than others.

Another question to ask the users is how they would feel if you came into their house to help at a party, and then used their good carving knife to open cardboard boxes and good china to feed the dog?

Yes, they've gotten away with this for a long time; it's gonna be hard to tighten up. But first up, start simply thanking the ones who bring back radios without being banged up. Say it softly , but publicly, and leave it there, don't make any more comment, but make it sincere.

Remember this, from a great Quality Engineer: "Management gets what it wants. Even if it doesn't like what it gets." (If management just wants warm bodies in the positions but doesn't care how well they perform, that's what they'll get - just warm bodies. Look at McD's & Walmart. If management really really wants employees who are dedicated, engaged, and top of their game, they'll make the way to achieve that. )

And definitely enjoy your time in Japan. You've earned it. Put all this concern in a box while you're over there.
 

Danny37

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Danny if they do not care about their equipment / tools then how much do they care about their patients.

Our patient care is pretty top notch, we get thank you notes once in awhile because the community we serve are also our neighbors so it's a small world in that sense. that's the thing radios seems to be the brunt of the problem, all our other equipment isn't abused compared to the radios.
 

buddrousa

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Like someone else said if your bosses do not care then just keep a log of each radio and user and when the money adds up you have the paperwork to show you tried. Sorry but this sounds like the GOOD OLE BOY NETWORK.
 
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