NX-800 FleetSync Alert Help

[kenwoodgeek]

Hi,

I'm just putting a quick question out there for anyone who can offer me advice. mmckenna has been extremely helpful to me these past few months with my radios, but I was wondering if someone else may work with the type of system I'm talking about, since neither us right now can figure out how it is configured.

I recently got an NX-800K, and I'm using it on my local school bus company's frequency. The company uses TK-8180's and NX-800's in their buses. The system they have uses a repeater, and the radios use FleetSync. I think they might also use NXDN for data (Mr. McKenna suggested that the radios might switch channels to send data).

In certain buses that use NX-800's, the units will make the programmed alert tone and the LED's will flash orange whenever certain other radios will call in. With any other units, they'll receive like normal with the solid green LED. From what I've heard, the radio is only supposed to alert if it's a private call to an individual unit, but that's not the case here. They don't even use individual calling/paging on their radios. These radios alert on normal operation.

Anyway, I really want to get these alerts on my radio also, and it can't be that hard to do, but so far I can't get the radio to alert, unless I just haven't heard these particular radios yet that would make my radio alert. In the programming, the channel is configured for FleetSync, and in the FleetSync menu, I have the alert tone programmed the way I want. I also have the three boxes checked for status, short, and long messages on data channel, which I thought would do it for sure.

Here is a link to a video I recorded in one of the buses with one of these NX-800's. This is exactly how I want my radio to work. At 1:59 in the video through 2:46, you can hear the radio alerting for another driver, but not for the dispatcher. The radios never alert for the dispatchers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAT3s429XFI

Thanks in advance!

 

[ramal121]

By the video I hear it is an analog channel sending fleetsync at the beginning of the transmission that causes the radio to alert. Before I go any further, when the fleetsync goes out, do all the radios alert or instead does only one radio alert? I'm trying to figure out if this is a group call or an individual call.

 

[kenwoodgeek]

That I don't 100% know, since there's no way I have ever been able to listen to two of them at the same time, unfortunately.

I do know a handful of buses do alert for some of the other radios, so it's not just the bus in my video. What I don't know is if while this radio is alerting, the other ones are too at the same time. The TK-8180 in my daily bus never alerts, but still receives all the calls the NX-800's alert for.

 

[ramal121]

What it looks like is the radios are set up for selective call. The reason there is no private conversation is the receiver is not set up with the proper muting condition therefore it acts like a regular radio and you hear all traffic.

Why I ask if one or all radios fire off is selective call can be sent to and individual radio or a group of radios. If group is used there are a few more steps to make that work.

If you look in the fleetsync tab, you'll see both fleet and id numbers. These need to be correct according to what the other radios are programmed and are sending out. If they're blank or wrong, you'll get nada. This is how fleetsync works, dividing radios up by id's to do all the functions it is capable of.

Also the other radios seem to send the selcall on every push of the mic. Not sure how this is done yet as it would have to PTT ID with selcall (not regular plain-jane PTT ID) and I'm not sure fleetsync can do this. Might be a way to fudge this. Normal selcalls are only sent once (initiated by the user) to start a conversation, then off they go.

I'm not sure why the buses are set up this way. Wouldn't regular PTT ID without the annoying beep beep beep work just as well?

Do you have the function manual from Kenwood that explains this?

 

[kenwoodgeek]

Okay, now I think I'm starting to get it.

My radio does have an option to turn caller ID on and off. I turned it on, and it seems to be working great when the other radios are calling in. If I wrote all those ID numbers down and entered them into those blank spaces, I could get the selective call on those radios?

And yeah, I'll have to look into that to see how to make the radio alert every time the drivers key up the microphones.

It's an interesting setup, since it's the only system that I've ever seen that does it. In all honesty, one of the main reasons I wanted the radio was just so I could get those alerts. Sounds pretty pointless, but I like them, personally.

And yes, Mr. McKenna sent me the Field Programming Reference Guide and the Function Reference.

 

[kenwoodgeek]

I've listened to it a little today, and I still can't figure it out.

I read the guide I got, and it said in order for the radio to unmute for a group call (I guess that's the same thing as alerting), the fleet ID has to match and the radio ID has to match the group ID.

I tried putting the last 4 digits of some of the radio ID's into the group ID box, which only holds 10 group ID's, but still the radio would not alert for those radios.

I was told that I'd need to find the group ID. Is there a way to do that?

 

[ramal121]

First I'm gonna assume when another radio sends the fleetsync burst it will alert all radios (unless you tell me otherwise)

To do this is accomplished by two (or more, I'll explain) ways.

The transmitting radio makes an individual call. To receive the alert the "Fleet (Own) and ID (Own)" in the general tab 1 has to match exactly as what the transmitting radio sends out to receive an alert. If this is the case, the only way to alert multiple radios is to have them all programmed with the same Fleet (Own) and ID (Own). Get that?

The other way is for the transmitting radio to send a group call. In that, the receiving radio only needs to match the Fleet(Own) and any ID (Own) is included to alert.

The others options are supervisor call where any Fleet (Own) and one ID (Own) match, and broadcast call where any Fleet (Own) and any ID (Own) match. Confused yet? Doubt they would be using these.

It all comes down to tab general 1 and having the correct Fleet (Own) and ID (Own) for your radio to respond. If you can duplicate another radio that is known to work you'll be golden.

The group ID's you added to the 10 line list won't help. It is used for transmitting out to other radios in a sub-set of a regular group call, not for receiving one.

Boy, if there is any way you could sneak into a working radio on a bus and suck out the programming and ship it to me, I can tell in a hot second what they are doing.

 

[kenwoodgeek]

Ah, I see.

I was completely missing the Fleet (Own) and ID (Own). Yesterday, I did set that, but I made up my own.

And now that you bring that up, I think the pieces of the puzzle may be starting to fall into place. When I was listening to the radio with the FleetSync Caller ID on today, I discovered that multiple radios seemed to be using the same ID, "1104456". I entered that into the ID List chart, and named it "Shared ID". Now when I listened to it, I realized a good majority of the radios I was hearing from three local school bus bases (same company) came up as "Shared ID" on my radio, some of which were shop and dispatch radios, so I wonder if that's why all the alerting happens because pretty much all the radios share the same ID. At the same time, some radios I picked up used a unique ID, including both dispatch radios for the West Chicago terminal, which would probably explain why the radios in the buses never alert for the dispatchers.

Even before you suggested this to me, this afternoon I changed the Fleet (Own) and ID (Own) to 110 and 4456. Now I did this after all the companies closed for the day, so I haven't been able to see if it works yet, and I won't find out until tomorrow morning when there's actually some drivers out for morning routes.

And funny you should bring that up. I was planning to do that. I'd have to wait until school starts back up for me, and then wait for my bus driver's bus (which has the TK-8180) to break down so she'll get a bus with an NX-800. Then I just have to bring my laptop and programming cable and ask if I can quickly rip the data off of the radio. If I ever get the chance to do that, I will defiantly send you the data file.

 

[kenwoodgeek]

Bingo! That did the trick. It's alerting whenever the matching ID calls in now, which is exactly what I wanted. I'll go ahead and post a video later of it in operation. Thanks for the help!

 

[kenwoodgeek]

Here's a video if it operating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosTGp_bnKY

 

[mmckenna]

Nice, looks like you got it worked out.