Kenwood TK-7150 Aux Outputs

[KC1ART]

Can anyone help me out with the 25-pin connector on the back of the TK-7150?

I'm trying use the radio for a house paging system (trip a relay, activate lights, speaker, and maybe a bell). I'm trying to do this by tripping the internal relay Aux Output 3 (pin 4), but I'm a little lost.

In the programing software I get to Edit --> Function Port --> the drop down for Pin 4.

That's about as far as I got. I don't know what to choose from the dropdown, or how to link that to a channel with a 2-tone set.

Any help (including if there's a better way to go about the house paging system) would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[KC1ART]

Or would I just wire into one of the Horn Alert pins, program one of the front pannel buttons to Horn Alert, and then toggle it on for the channel I want to trip the relay that powers the speakers lights and bell?

 

[mmckenna]

Or would I just wire into one of the Horn Alert pins, program one of the front pannel buttons to Horn Alert, and then toggle it on for the channel I want to trip the relay that powers the speakers lights and bell?

Pretty sure that'll do what you want. Just sent up a channel with the signaling you want. When it gets the right code/2 tone/DTMF, etc. it will activate the pin.

From the 7150/8150 function manual:
Horn Alert Logic Signal
You can configure the output signal operation (Until
Reset/ 1 ~ 30 [sec]/ Pulse) of the Horn Alert terminal
when this function activates.

"Items to program using KPG-79D:"
"... Programming the output signal operation of the Horn Alert terminal. {Edit > Optional Features > Common-Page 1 > Horn Alert Logic Signal}"


"7.3 Enable/ disable the Horn Alert"
"function"
"Press the PF [Horn Alert] key to enable/ disable this function.*1"
"*1 {Refer to “Section 8 Key Assignment”.}"
"• Transceiver operation"
"... Enable/ disable the Horn Alert function"
"Press the PF [Horn Alert] key to enable/ disable this function."
"You can toggle between ON and OFF each time you press the PF [Horn Alert] key."
"“Horn Alert” appears when this function activates."


So, the horn alert would trigger the amplifier/bell/lights. Take an audio feed off the rear connector to feed the amplifier. You could program a button to handle the reset.

We set up some Motorola CDM-1250's the same way. We had a few channels in each radio. We had the main dispatch channel in their twice, one with no alert function, always routed audio to the amplifier, and the main dispatch channel programmed in with the signaling for use at night.

Seemed to work pretty well.

 

[KC1ART]

Great thanks.

You wouldn't know if there was more than one Horn Alert would you?

Out station has separate tones for fire and rescue, so I was hoping to trip Horn Alert 1/Relay 1 for one tone and then Horn alert 2/Relay 2 for the other.

That'd allow for toggle switches in the bunk rooms where members can choose which tones they want to hear based on what they're assigned to that night.

 

[ramal121]

I'll add a little to clarify things.

There is only one horn alert output. You cannot use any of the I/Os for this. All radios I have used for this purpose have just a single horn output. The only thing that has two relays and that can be set separately is the Federal Signal Informer. If you want to map different tones to different zones then you'll have to add a second decoder and relay output. Not hard, but you need a modicum of smarts to set up and haywire in.
Two Tone (2 Tone) Encoders Decoders - Midian Electronics

I did a station once with separate fire/EMS. They wanted, however, a switch in each dorm so they could select which page set the lights off and opened the speaker for that room. This involved a custom switching panel that was run off two decoders from the above link. A bit of work to wire it all up but it works fine.

For the TK-7150, the 25 pin accessory connector has two pins for horn alert. HR1 is on pin 16 and HR2 is on pin 23. Default from the factory HR2 is always grounded, so an alert would cause HR1 to go to ground and would be the only pin you'd use. If you need to switch a voltage, by removing a chip jumper in the radio this will delete the ground on HR2 and you now have a dry contact closure between HR1 and HR2 on alert. The radio will support up to 1 amp.

As mentioned above, you'll need to program a button as "HA" to enable horn alert on that channel. The bone of contention is that if the radio is powered down or the channel is changed the horn alert is disabled and the button must be pressed to re-enable the alert again on the dispatch channel (newer Kenwoods can have the horn alert "sticky" to the channel so this doesn't happen).

If you want to use the radio to drive some speakers, use pin 17 AFO and pin 7 Ground on the acc connector to feed the auxiliary input to a PA amp.

 

[jim202]

You might be better off in installing a decoder or decoders external to the radio. That way you can have any selection you want and as many as you want.

Just remember that the current ability of the radio pin out is limited. You will need to have an external relay to pull much current. I think the limit the radio can handle is about 100 to 150 ma. It will be in the same ball park with an external decoder.

I believe you can have access to the unfiltered audio or discriminator output through a pin on the accessory connector. I would have to pull the information up on the accessory connector to be sure.

 

[ramal121]

You might be better off in installing a decoder or decoders external to the radio. That way you can have any selection you want and as many as you want.

Actually this is a better way to go. Multiple decoders for each tone set you want to decode. The decoders are high impedance inputs which means you can hook several up to the audio line in addition to the aux input to a PA amp without loading down the audio line to the point where nothing works. You'll need a small relay on each decoder as these are not included. Their drive is in the 100-200 mA range from the decoders. By doing this you can delete any signalling squelch and horn alert function in the radio bypassing the glitch with the horn alert button as mentioned above. The decoders will be on and ready to decode as long as audio gets to them. A relay to the PA amp with a switch can be readily done to keep the speakers quiet at night.

Just remember that the current ability of the radio pin out is limited. You will need to have an external relay to pull much current. I think the limit the radio can handle is about 100 to 150 ma. It will be in the same ball park with an external decoder.

The TK-7150 includes a internal relay (unlike other Kenwoods that need an optional KAP-1 or KAP-2 relay kit for horn alert). The SPST contacts NO appear on pins 16 and 23 and are good for 1 amp. Now you are not going to run 110V at a few hundred watts for station lighting through this relay (unless you like living on the edge), but will utilize this to trip other higher power relays or contactors. This internal relay gives you the ability to branch out to other relays to run your stuff. Same goes for the small relays off of the external decoders. With this you could turn on speakers and lights, turn off the stove, open app bay doors and so on and so forth.

I believe you can have access to the unfiltered audio or discriminator output through a pin on the accessory connector. I would have to pull the information up on the accessory connector to be sure.

Umm, I'll throw a rebuttal. the TK-7150 has both filtered audio (pin 16 AFO) and unsquelched discriminator audio (DEO pin 19). for your application you would want to use filtered audio AFO. Unless somebody set something weird, audio signalling for the two tone encode is fed to the mic line which which is pre-emphasized and you'd want filtered audio to bring the response back to as flat as possible so the AGC in the decoder is not jumping all over trying to keep the level straight although two tone sequential signalling is the most forgiving format you can use.

 

[KC1ART]

External decoders seem like a smarter way to go, I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how to trick the radio into opening 2 different relays based on which 2-tone hits and it's just a mess.

Kenwood makes the KDS-10, but would two of those work with the TK-7150 (one for fire and one for rescue 2-tones) or is that just for Kenwood radios that don't have built-in 2-tone decode.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain this stuff to me.

I am trying to do exactly what you described, ramal121. A paging system for the bunk rooms that turns on the lights and activates an audio speaker, and lets the person in the room flip a switch to choose whether they're alerted to fire or rescue pages. I'm aiming for a 12v lights and audio system, so my external 2-tone decoder only needs to trip a 12v relay with about a 5 minute delay timer before it auto resets for the next call.

 

[mmckenna]

ya know, a lot of radios will do this. If you don't have to have brand new stuff, you could pick up a couple of used radios. If you don't need to transmit, use a single antenna and a splitter.
I agree that an outboard decoder would be great, but by the time you figure all that out, purchase, hook up, etc. You might be cheaper to just run a couple of used radios to do what you want.

 

[KC1ART]

You're right. It's just a radio I had lying around, so I was trying to make it work. I may abandon this thread and go with the Motorola GM300. It looks like they have at least a couple programmable outputs on it. I know at least one person who's used them for making a house paging system, and they're like $80 on ebay.

 

[cmdrwill]

The GM300 also has a Filtered Audio output that is NOT affected by the volume control. The GM300 does NEED a external low coil current relay for 'tone out'.

 

[ramal121]

The GM 300 is also another good radio for this purpose, but not all models have the abilities to decode quick call 2. Believe it needs to state "RapidStat" on the label, or was that only for the M-216? Anyway, it may need an outboard decoder. Also if not already, it cannot be narrow banded but as a receiver and it works, what the hey, go for it. If it can do two tone it is still limited by a single horn alert output (the I/Os won't help you here either).

So listen, if you have two radios (7150 and GM300) you can get to decode separate tone tones and provide separate outputs, you have most of the problem solved. Antenna can be split by a tee to both radios (assuming both would be receive only). Audio can be sent to different inputs on a PA amp or use a cheap mixer to combine into one for the amp. Then you can go nuts with relays to switch audio, lights or whatever. Think the GM300 can handle up to half an amp for the +12 volt output of the horn alert. A relay driving other relays is the way to go. Starting to go the Rube Goldberg route, but if it works it works.

 

[mmckenna]

Here's the "stick-on" audio mixer we used. There are 2 input and 3 input versions. We took the fixed level audio output from each radio and fed it into this unit. Output went to the amp:
ST-MX2 ‐ 2 Channel Audio Mixer - Microphone or line input and output