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Old 11-08-2016, 3:12 AM
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Default Kenwood NX-5000 problems, lacks, suggestions and improvements

Hi all!

Here is my thread about Kenwood NX-5000. I am 14-month user of a bunch of NX-5000 mobiles. I want to share my experience, including problems, I come across to draw Kenwood's attention to it.

Fist one.

Weak audio modulation (deviation) in analog mode. Also, TX audio frequency response is bad - there are no high frequencies in signal and it's not very clear. Everyone reports that signal sounds in times poorly than Baofeng and Yeasu. In in 10 times poorly than Motorola.

25 kHz is used bandwidth in all fleet. Genuine KMC-35 mic is used with NX-5800 with recommended settings (Microphone Type = Microphone 1). TX ACG = On. Mic sense is default = 0 dB. TX Preset = High Boost. ANR = Off. Compander = Off.

Adding gain makes sound louder, but adds ‘surround’ effect. And doesn’t do a better frequency response.

No issues in APCO25 nor NXDN. Analog only affected.

AFAIK, there is no separate gain for analog and digital as in Moto gear. So, I still investigate this issue.

Last edited by N3AAG; 11-08-2016 at 3:37 AM..
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Old 11-08-2016, 4:08 AM
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Also, who can point me to pre- and de-emphasis management in Kenwood (6 dB per octave correction). I know where this setting in any Motorola radio, but cannot find it Kenwood.

Or maybe Kenwood not give control over it? Then what the the default setting? Flat or +6 dB/octave for TX and -6 dB/octave for RX?

Please do not point me to Audio Profile -> Audio Equalizer, it is not the same.

Last edited by N3AAG; 11-08-2016 at 4:21 AM..
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Old 11-08-2016, 4:46 AM
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Meanwhile, I was able to improve radio sound in analog mode. Here is small step-by-step guide:

1. Find old KMC-32 or KMC-27/28 mic. KMC-32 sounds better than others, but produce some parasitic sound when you press PTT (and it's heard by air). Stock KMC-35 sounds poorly than any other (I am not sure but it often happened due to thin rubber installed in mic to protect it from water / to get some IP rating).
2. Set Microphone sense to +6 dB
3. Create custom TX Eq profile like shown or similar (you get the idea — to press middle range and dramatically boost high range)
4. Ensure that you have your audio profile chosen in Audio options

Now it sounds not so good as Motorola Astro25 or APX, but causes no complaints from other parties anymore. Good luck with your new audio!
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Old 11-09-2016, 7:10 PM
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Missing element to your information. Firmware Version.

FROM KENWOOD TECH SUPPORT:
Update to the latest firmware, V2.01. There was an audio bug in the previous release. Not sure if it affected analog but it did DMR.
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Old 11-09-2016, 7:53 PM
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And was the Deviation Compensation checked on a service monitor and scope? I find the same problem on XPR portable radios. When I calibrated the Dev Comp, the TX audio came alive.
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Old 11-10-2016, 4:06 AM
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Okay, forgot to add. Firmware is always latest, now K 2.01.00. I always stay up to date. And I skipped 2.00 at all due to know bug.

After hours and hours testing and playing with profiles, EQ, I finally found out that it sounds poorly than Kenwood ham rigs and even Baofeng. No nobody complains, but it still sounds like $30 Chinese noname radio 5 people were questioned a lot of recordings were performed.

Who have tried mobiles in analog and compared TX sound with other radios?
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Old 11-10-2016, 4:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrwill View Post
And was the Deviation Compensation checked on a service monitor and scope? I find the same problem on XPR portable radios. When I calibrated the Dev Comp, the TX audio came alive.
Tuning is on default values. And I've never planned to re-align factory NIB radios. It's insane.

Maximum Deviation - Analog Wide is always = 503
Maximum Deviation - Analog Narrow is always = 499

There is no special menu Deviation Compensation as in Moto.

A few questions guys:

1. Are you experiencing the same issue in analog mode?
2. Can you check your UHF mobiles for these settings values?
3. Why Kenwood don't allow us to have control over pre and de-emphasis? Problem could be here.

Here are screeshots of emphasis control in Motorola APX, Astro25, MotoTRBO and Hytera DMR.
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Last edited by N3AAG; 11-10-2016 at 5:55 AM..
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Old 11-12-2016, 8:43 AM
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Issue # 3.

I see no differences between RX Profiles and Audio equalizer settings. I've tried to create mirrored profiles, absolutely crazy presets (like 10 dB suppressed HiMid and Hi freqs), and I see no difference at all! Itís absolutely impossible, because such values as +10 dB or -10 dB must change sound dramatically. But they donít.

Did a lot of tests in analog and P25 by listening repeater and simplex transmittions. I've tried both internal and external KES speakers. NX-5700/5800 radios under test. K2.01.00 firmware. KPG-D1N 2.00 software. I change profiles from Audio Profile menu. And Profiles do change - it's easy control e.g. by [NR] icon.

All looks like RX EQ doesnít work at all.

Please check it on your mobile radios and hit back here!
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Last edited by N3AAG; 11-12-2016 at 8:56 AM..
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Old 11-12-2016, 9:17 AM
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Issue #4.

It's very unnoticeable and dangerous bug related to radio appearance in scan mode. I come across it and spent 2 evenings to get it fixed!

E.g. If you have some digital channel (P25 is 100% affected) in your scan list with F7E as NAC. You’re waiting for some P25 voice there. If somebody will put APCO25 trunking 9600 control channel at the same frequency, your radio will land scan there absolutely silently. No voice, no status sounds, and no landed scan indication on LCD! There is only one thing shows you that something goes wrong — green led! If you see that, just know, radio is NOT scanning now, it’s landed and will stay there until 9600 CC channel disappears! So, you will lose all of conversations on other channels until you’re in zone with CC reception.

I found this bug absolutely accidentally, when TAIT 9600 system in neighboring region was put in service on the same frequency as local conventional system. I started worrying that my radio is silent for a 2 days. First thing I checked – scat status. It is run. I tried to TX on some other channels from list and found that radio absolute unable to find transmittion. I started investigation and found a reason by disabling channels in scan. And I found cheat – weak 9600 CC channel!

Kenwood must fix it. It’s dangerous. If radio landed scan, green round circle with arrows must indicate it by blinking (as normally). And if scan banner is enabled, it must appear also. Now they didn't and user cannot understand what’s happening. Temporary fix is applying particular NAC on this channel.

Last edited by N3AAG; 11-12-2016 at 9:26 AM..
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Old 11-13-2016, 1:09 PM
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Thumbs down KPG-D1N CPS Issue - DMR Zone

While editing zone/channel info I noticed that if I copied one of the channels and then pasted it to another line that none of the details (besides whatever info is currently displayed on the line) will be copied to the destination. This means that if you copy 20 channels from one zone to another section in the same zone it will not copy Color Code Information, Talkgroup Info or Timeslot information. This is kind of a pain in the your know what.

Also having the ability to re-order/drag & drop the channels in the zone would be a nice addition too!!
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Old 11-13-2016, 1:26 PM
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I can confirm both things mentioned by ke6yjc.

1. Sometimes when I do copy/paste some of details can be missed. But looks like FPU 2.00 become a bit better than older versions. Yesterday I copied a few P25 channels with no issues. But I remember that I had a lot of issues with it in the past.

2. Missed Zone and Channel sort is real PITA. I want to re-arrange my entire radio with hundreds of channels, but I don't do that, because I need to create a lot of new zones from scratch, do everything there from scratch and remove old zones with wrong arrangement. It's real headache.

I am 100% sure that Kenwood can allow channel and zone sort. It could be done by allowing right click OR entering target line number on context menu (as in Astro25 software) or by drag and drop (as in APX/TRBO software). I need this functionality for both Zones and Channels.
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Old 11-13-2016, 2:14 PM
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Exclamation Note about submitting bugs and or operational info

Quote:
Originally Posted by N3AAG View Post
Issue #4.


Kenwood must fix it. Itís dangerous. If radio landed scan, green round circle with arrows must indicate it by blinking (as normally). And if scan banner is enabled, it must appear also. Now they didn't and user cannot understand whatís happening. Temporary fix is applying particular NAC on this channel.


Mr. Justice Jr.,
Kenwood Systems Engineering is asking how are you defining this as "Dangerous". What is your position of authority to be able to say "It's very unnoticeable and dangerous bug related to radio appearance in scan mode."

They would like to know if you are a Public Safety Officer, why are you not contacting your chain of command, who is to contact their Dealer/Vendor, who is to then contact their Rep along with Kenwood Systems Personnel who would escalate this as a SEV-1 emergency matter? Has your superior officers taken your codeplug and submit it to Kenwood for review? Has your dealer submitted your codeplug(s) for review?

If this is a matter of Life and Death, this should have been directed to your superiors, and they should contact the dealer/vendor who needs to contact Kenwood Systems asap. A written proclamation on a bulletin board is not the proper way to advise a matter of operation when it comes to the safety of the operator in the field of Emergency Management, and Public Safety Services.

As of Friday, none of your information has been submitted through proper channels, and no one is
aware of your information other than what I sent to them Friday afternoon. They are happily awaiting for your dealer to submit the requested info to both the Manufacturer's Rep, Regional Kenwood Manager, and to Kenwood Systems for debugging and review.

Please have a detailed write-up of the findings, how it was entered, how it was found, what was done to create the problem, photos, details of the operations of the radio at the time it was found, how to duplicate the finding more than a few times. Be sure to send each codeplug you have of your setup if more than one radio (multi-deck), and any SKF file information that is in the codeplug. (System ID's or other Trunking
Information), a snip of the product screen for each radio in your codeplug set up, and snip of the radio information data when you poll each transceiver. Prepare that, give to your chain of command, have your Superiors contact the Dealer / Vendor, and have your information submitted as soon as possible Monday 11/14/2016.


Thanks for your understanding.
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Old 11-13-2016, 3:01 PM
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I'm still trying to figure why you would have a NAC of F7E assigned to a channel in a scan list that would also be a system control channel. Oh wait... no affiliate system scanning perhaps? If that's so, hardly a "dangerous bug". Normal programming doesn't work that way. F7E is digital carrier squelch if I'm not mistaken so if course it's going to stop scanning when it hears ANY digital traffic with a NAC. That's why when you put a NAC in other than F7E it works (it seems) like you want. Like scanning analog channels with carrier squelch, it will stop anytime the RX hears anything, whether you want to listen to it or not.

I'm interested in your audio findings though. I'll second Evans, if you feel there are bugs, follow his suggestions to submit your testing to Kenwood. They can't verify anything and fix it without proper feedback.

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Old 11-14-2016, 12:14 PM
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kd4efm

Dear mr. Evans! Just ignore this thread, it's not for your and not for Kenwood half-taught dealers. Thanks for your understanding.
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Old 11-14-2016, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS-Dave View Post
I'm interested in your audio findings though. I'll second Evans, if you feel there are bugs, follow his suggestions to submit your testing to Kenwood. They can't verify anything and fix it without proper feedback.
I've tried to email to Kenwodo LMR support in US, but no luck. They've never hit me back. Looks like they no need feedback. Or I need to know some special way to touch their minds.

Last edited by N3AAG; 11-14-2016 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 11-14-2016, 3:24 PM
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I believe KD4EFM, who is certainly an authority on all things Kenwood, politely and clearly told you the proper channels to take...so, try that since your email is apparently not getting through to them.
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Old 11-14-2016, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3AAG View Post
kd4efm

Dear mr. Evans! Just ignore this thread, it's not for your and not for Kenwood half-taught dealers. Thanks for your understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3AAG View Post
I've tried to email to Kenwodo LMR support in US, but no luck. They've never hit me back. Looks like they no need feedback. Or I need to know some special way to touch their minds.
Perhaps, and just perhaps with your piss-poor attitude shown in the above posts is why you get little to no response from Kenwood. As far as "half-taught dealers" as you so thoughtfully post, I ENCOURAGE you to find professional help elsewhere as there seems to be no qualified help available on this forum according to you.

Maybe when Baofeng gets a P25 radio on the market, it will be more to your liking.

Good Luck ES 73 OM

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Old 11-14-2016, 5:52 PM
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Folks, let's stay focused on the technical issues with the NX-5000 platform. Bashing dealers and questioning people's attitudes in the forum accomplishes nothing.

One other thing...this is a public forum. Anyone who follows the forum rules and contributes to the discussion is welcome.
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Old 11-16-2016, 3:10 PM
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Potential issue # 7: http://forums.radioreference.com/ken...t-working.html

Unfortunately, I can't confirm it personaly. I am albe to receive Quantar transmissions. But it could be. As I see, most of board members don't do detailed test and just use basic features.
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Old 11-16-2016, 3:13 PM
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List of current known issues:

1. Poor TX audio in analog mode
2. No pre- and de-emphasis control at all
3. Non-working RX EQ
4. Silent landing in scan mode (P25 is affected, not sure about NX/DMR)
5. No zone sort in FPU
6. No channel sort in FPU
7. P25 Kenwood-Motorola interoperability issue (potential; can't confirm it personally)

I will post updates to this list If something is resolved or If something new is found.
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