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NXDN Gen 2 Signal Issue

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Radio4866

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Jul 23, 2018
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Question regarding Gen 2 NXDN Type-C Trunking system.

Has anyone come across a site suddenly losing signal?

2 Site System will run great 3-4 Days then suddenly The service will drastically reduce until you perform an update to the system and change the control channel.

This is a 4 Channel system had dual function channels programmed at the beginning and thought potentially the frequencies used on channel 3 or 4 may have been causing the issue because the control channel was set to change every morning at 3 am. So I locked it down to 1 Channel for the Control Channel and was letting it run for a few days and the same issue continues to occur. I have not noticed if the signal from site 1 is doing the same that is the current test i'm running to find out.

Just asking if anyone has come across this?

Swept the Antennas and Combiner system all checks good.
 

domes

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Define: "service will drastically reduce." Are you talking RF coverage or data/networking performance?
 

firemedic2150

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I have a 15 site Gen2 system, I have everything from single channel dual function, two or three channel with dual function control channel, and dedicated control channel with several traffic channels and I have never experienced a RF power loss condition you described. The main issue I fought with was I had sites go all channels idle, I discovered I was having brown outs to the site and it would restart and the setting for Power on Stand-By was checked, I cleared that check box and now when they restart they come back trunking.
 

domes

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We started with 3 sites and planned to build out to a total of 6. We ended up with 12 now and we could expand more but we are on a holding pattern now. We still operate in GEN 1. We operate as an SMR.

Brown outs & power flickers can be a problem that can lock up modems, routers & sometimes even repeaters. You need to battery back up everything. Samlex makes a good 100 amp PS with back-up built in. We run 3 - 100 watt repeaters plus routers, modems AND receiver multicoupler off one PS with a deep cycle marine/camper battery. You can buy a back-up module separately to add to your existing PS. Battery back-up solves a lot of quirky intersite issues.

I think the problem the OP may be having is a loss of communication between sites. With Gen1 you can run a "site connection test" under tools in the KPG 110SM software. I don't know how to do it with Gen2. We occasionally have a "failed" connection between 2 sites when you can't seem to roam onto a site or pass data to it, but it seams to work RF-wise. If we access a router remotely and look at the VPN's the tunnel shows "connected" but if we click on the "disconnect/connect" test - it will reboot that tunnel to the sleeping site and it works fine again. I haven't figured out if the problem is our routers, modems or the internet provider.
 

Curt34

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Jun 21, 2012
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We operate a gen2 system and have been fighting an issue similar to what you describe since we first deployed the system. All of a sudden the control channel at a site will just “disappear” as far as the radios in the field are concerned. The control channel maintains RF power output but the radios cannot register or make calls on the site. It does not seem to make any difference if the control channels are configured as fixed or dynamic. This is not related to a power issue as everything at the site is backed up by battery (also using the Samlex supplies) and we have monitoring on the power / battery condition and do not get any power related alarms when this happens. This isn’t related to a loss of IP connectivity to the site either, we have monitoring on that as well (no alarms) and we have several other IP services at the sites that continue to run uninterrupted. Haven’t been able to find any rhyme or reason as to which site is affected. Rebooting the site from the controller will bring everything back to life. Simple fix but quite an annoying issue to stay on top of.
 

domes

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I am curious as to how you guys are linking your sites, internet or private (microwave)? What make & model router, modem and service provider you use if you connect over internet. I don't have any hands on experience with Gen2 but I am familiar as to how it is configured compared to our Gen1 network.

The Gen2 networks have to operate in a hub configuration where each site has only one connection to the central router where the controller is. If you loose connection to a site and it can't pass data between the site & controller, radios can't register on that site and go "dark" as you describe. You are definitely not passing data, loss of connectivity, between the site & controller.

Our Gen1 system is linked in a mesh network where each of our 12 sites have a link thru the internet to the other 11 sites plus a router at the shop so we can monitor & program the system from the shop. In other words, each site router has 12 VPN tunnels. We have been plagued with similar loss of connectivity between sites. For example if we loose connection between site 3 & 7, radios can't talk between those 2 sites but can talk to any other site and can still register on those sites as long as the site remains connected to site 1 which retains registration and system control. If a site does loose connection with site 1, which seldom happens, it will go dark like you described.

The next time it happens to one of your sites, get into either the site router or your router at the controller and "refresh" the VPN tunnel to the site and see if that brings the site on-line without rebooting the entire site. in the case with our CISCO routers, we can look at the VPN window and the status column will show that all 12 tunnels are connected and you could assume that it is passing data to all sites but it is not. We click on the "disconnect test" button for the effected tunnel and it disconnects for a few seconds and automatically reconnects that one tunnel without rebooting the router or any site equipment and the site starts functioning normally.
 

domes

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Jun 18, 2013
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I will add that we use what I would call hard wired service (cable & Telco DSL) at 4 sites and the shop. The other 8 sites are Vz-4G-LTE service. I wish I would have kept a log over the past couple years, but it seems that every time a link crashes it involves a Vz-4G site at one or both ends. I don't recall it happening between 2 hardwired sites. When I consider the other issues I've had making the VZ modems work properly and issues with VZ conflicting IP's. I believe that my problems and perhaps yours are with Vz modems & network.
 

domes

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Jun 18, 2013
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We had another VPN link go out last week between 2 sites on our Gen1 system. Instead of just going into the remote management feature of one of the routers, I decided to drive out to one of the affected sites to confirm some things on site that I suspected:

The internet at the site was fully functional. I was able to access the internet with my laptop plugged into the modem and into the site router. The same site router has 11 other VPN links to our other sites and those were fully functional. I confirmed function by looking down the LAN's at other sites and ping the routers & repeaters and enter management of the routers at other sites. I could not see or ping any device through the affected link, However, The "status" window of the router indicated that all VPN links including the bad link were in "connected' status. It is important to note that I am testing the link at this point with my laptop, not with the radio equipment, and I can't pass data between the 2 affected routers on the bad tunnel. We do not have any network alarms on our system but an alarm on the internet connection would not have triggered because the internet did not "fail." Also an alarm triggered by VPN "disconnect" would also not have triggered because the router indicates that the "bad" tunnel was in "connect" mode.

Again - all I did was click on the "tunnel test" button of the bad tunnel in the site router and that refreshed or re-established the one bad link out of 12 and the 2 sites became fully functional again without re-booting the site or any device. In the past I have left a link between 2 unimportant sites in default and they do heal thy self after a day or so, just as unexpectedly as the quit.

Since this last episode I did some surfing on the net and discovered that it is not unusual for Vz 4G VPN's to indicate connection but stop passing data in other M2M applications. It may also happen with other services but my research was with Vz. There doesn't appear to be a known cause but speculation suggests: unstable connections between devices, unstable devices, More than one router and LANS with conflicting IPs behind the primary modem/router, signal strength/interference, or faulty or unstable IP service or devices in Vz network between here & there. There is also suspicion that Vz or some device may put the path in "sleep mode" due to inactivity and it takes something other than normal data to re-establish/wake-up the link.

I do not have a cure for the problem but "experts" on the net suggest changing the NAT or other settings and wait to see if it doesn't happen again. ???? I'm not much of an IT tech and not comfortable with blind trial & error fooling around until I happen on a fix (if one exists) or more likely really screw things up.

I believe that Radio4866, Curt34, myself and others are dealing with the same issue of loss of ability to pass data thru a VPN tunnel. It is far more critical on GEN2 than it is with GEN1. You are showing the symptoms of loss of data exchange with the controller and in the case of GEN2, radios can't register on the affected site because the controller can't validate the radios. If you have ever disabled active ID's or tried to place mobiles on the air before you activate ID's, the mobiles will do nothing except display "out of range." I believe we are having an Internet/VPN reliability issue or perhaps issues with the router or modem.
 
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