K5P - Palmyra

[chrissim]

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. I know there's plenty of ops working them, but from what I have read on other forums as well as cluster comments, many on the east coast are having difficulty. Were verticals the best choice? I don't know that I have experienced a recent DXpedition that didn't bring at least one beam.

I heard them briefly on 17 via long path and threw out a couple calls, but the fading was terrible. I also tried 40 CW in the morning and had a hard time as well. The signal kept dropping. Strangely, VOACAP DX charts claim their signal should be pounding in here.

If the current trend continues, this may be the first "major" DXpedition during the last two years that I can't work.

Good luck to those of you trying and congratulations if you snagged 'em.

 

[res5cue]

I've not heard that at all here I'm nj. Only the frequency police. Kinda bummed. My be the vp8 will be better luck for me.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[k9rzz]

I've only been able to hear 'em on 40 cw. Keep trying.

See this on the P5 in North Korea? Is P5/3Z9DX a fake? | DxCoffee

 

[res5cue]

We have what another full well of k5p right? As far as the p5 thing I'm not sure what to believe waiting to hear from Dom about it

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[chrissim]

Concerning P5: Unless Dom (the fellow that supposedly went there) can produce some type of document that illustrates he was actually there, I suppose the only thing to believe is that he wasn't there. I would think he (Dom) would secure some type of official acceptance from IARU or the ARRL and if they don't consider it legitimate, I suppose it wasn't.

 

[R0am3r]

I heard them for a while on 15 CW tonight, but they weren't strong enough to work them. I never heard them on 17 or 20. Maybe tomorrow...

 

[chrissim]

Scored them on 20 @ 16:59 today. Two calls 5 up. He was barely audible. As soon as we exchanged reports he was gone into the ether. I'm anxiously awaiting clublog confirmation. Regardless, this is one of the, if not the most difficult DXpedition I've attempted to work yet.

I'm grateful that they're there, but i have to reiterate, they really should have given more thought to the antenna situation. Verticals for all bands just doesn't cut it especially considering the conditions of late and a DXpedition of this magnitude.

 

[AK9R]

I'm grateful that they're there, but i have to reiterate, they really should have given more thought to the antenna situation.

Maybe they are doing the best they can with the situation they've been handed. Are you aware of the hoops the team had to jump through just to get access to the island? The Nature Conservancy owns the island and they do not want humans there except for very controlled activities.

Here's a quote from the team's web site:

The air charter is provided by our host, The Nature Conservancy, as part of the award. Earlier this year, the air strip was decertified and as a result the aircraft type had to be changed to allow access to the Palmyra.

The quote goes on to talk about having to reduce the number of people on their team because of The Nature Conservancy's last-minute restrictions. I'm going to jump to the conclusion that the amount, weight, and size of equipment they could take was also severely restricted. That may have forced them into using verticals instead of more directional antennas.

I don't mean to rant, but I really don't understand your attitude. The K5P team, like any DXpedition team, is using their time and their money to put a rare location on the air. They may also be enduring difficult living conditions and challenging radio operating conditions. Meanwhile, folks sit at home in their nice radio rooms with central heat and cooling, reliable electric power, permanently installed towers and antennas, and a kitchen full of food while complaining about not being able to make a contact. It's just amateur radio. End of rant.

BTW, congrats on making contact with K5P. I hope they get you in their log. So far, I've been unable to work them on any band in any mode.

 

[chrissim]

W9BU:

I understand completely, which is why I didn't want to mention my frustration regarding their antenna system to begin with. However, there have been plenty of other Dxpeditions that have had to endure the same hardships and dilemmas associated with such an event, and such conditions haven't prevented them from making the proper equipment and antenna choices.

They've also volunteered (which I'm thankful for) to make the trip and allow themselves to be subjected to the environment and everything associated with the process. They've also taken donations, and although donations may account for only a small portion of their operating funds, I sincerely doubt any of them mortgaged their house to make the trip and purchase the necessary equipment. Look at their corporate and other sponsors. I also doubt any of these guys are in the poor house. They went because they can afford to go.

You could be right and they may have had to modify their antenna selection at the last moment, but under their FAQ section of their webpage, they've had SteppIR verticals posted for a while, so I don't think it was a last minute decision. When I initially saw that I was skeptical but I didn't think verticals would preform this poorly so I didn't put much thought into it. In fact I had no real way of assessing the preformance of a vertical during a major DXpedition because this is the first time I can recall any major Dxpedition exclusively using verticals.

Any Dxpedition is a service to the community and I'm extremely thankful for them, but unless I hear otherwise from them in terms of being restricted on antenna choice, it was simply a matter of a bad decision.

I apologize if my comments rub anyone the wrong way, but I 'm of the opinion if you're going to do something, do it right. In this situation doing something right equates to reasonable. A three band spiderbeam weighs all of 14 lbs and a temporary mast wouldn't have added much more - I think that's pretty reasonable.

 

[kb9fbi]

I hear everyone complaining about the use of vertical antennas. I believe that our lack of hearing them has nothing to do with that at all. I take the vocap with a grain of salt. Vertical antennas are very good transmitting antennas for working signals at very low angles of radiation. Once the signal hits the ionosphere the polarity of the antennas have little to do with it. They do however not make the best receive antennas but they don't seem to be having a problem hearing the ones they are working. I believe the problem is in the propagation we and they are having at this moment. Maybe it will get better. I just heard them on 20 CW better than I have heard them on any band and for 30 minutes or more there was little QSB. Every one of the team on Palmyra are experienced DXers. Many off them were on or led the Navassa expedition last year. They know what will work and what won't. Unfortunately you can't control propagation.

 

[chrissim]

I hear everyone complaining about the use of vertical antennas. I believe that our lack of hearing them has nothing to do with that at all. I take the vocap with a grain of salt. Vertical antennas are very good transmitting antennas for working signals at very low angles of radiation. Once the signal hits the ionosphere the polarity of the antennas have little to do with it. They do however not make the best receive antennas but they don't seem to be having a problem hearing the ones they are working. I believe the problem is in the propagation we and they are having at this moment. Maybe it will get better. I just heard them on 20 CW better than I have heard them on any band and for 30 minutes or more there was little QSB. Every one of the team on Palmyra are experienced DXers. Many off them were on or led the Navassa expedition last year. They know what will work and what won't. Unfortunately you can't control propagation.

When applicable, I always like to support my argument with relevant data from acceptable sources, such as links to articles from QST or the page number from "The Antenna Book," but in this case I'm letting it go. I respect your opinion and I am not going to get into a vertical vs. beam debate because we all know the information is readily available.

Also, W9BU suggested that there's a possibility that they were only allowed to use verticals, and if that is indeed the situation, they're doing the best they can with what they have.

As for the propagation prediction tools, I've always found them to be reliable, although I'll submit that it's not always the case, but I've never consulted the prediction models and found them to be wrong this many days in succession.

In the end, the most important thing is that the guys there are healthy and that they return safely.

 

[R0am3r]

K5P in the log! Got them on 40 CW this morning [11:50Z]. Much better signals here on the East Coast.

 

[popnokick]

Copied 'em this morning on RTTY 7040kHz at ~1055z. Shortly after I realized it was K5P they sent, "QRX for antenna work" and followed a minute or so later by "QRT QRT QRT QRT". They were calling for EU stations before that.

 

[kj3n]

For 3 days, I heard nothing above whisper. Not SSB, not RTTY, not even CW.

This morning, I finally hear a decent RTTY signal out of them. However, between the JA wall, the WC wall, and deciding to go EU when EC USA still had at least 2 hours to go, I've got nothing to show so far.

To say I'm highly frustrated would be an understatement.

 

[kj3n]

For 3 days, I heard nothing above whisper. Not SSB, not RTTY, not even CW.

This morning, I finally hear a decent RTTY signal out of them. However, between the JA wall, the WC wall, and deciding to go EU when EC USA still had at least 2 hours to go, I've got nothing to show so far.

To say I'm highly frustrated would be an understatement.

And just like that, the gods have smiled upon me this morning. 40m SSB @ 11:13z on 1/18/2016.

It may well be my only Q, but I'll be happy to see it confirmed in Club Log on the next upload. Fingers crossed...

 

[R0am3r]

I also got them on 40 SSB this morning. Their signal was the strongest that I have heard. I also tried on 30 meters this morning, but couldn't hear them for long with the QSB.

 

[chrissim]

I tried for a bit on 40 this morning and no luck. Fortunately, I got them on 30 meters after I gave up 40. My 20 and 30 meter contacts took no more than 60 minutes to be posted on clublog. Impressive.

Fortunately, VP8STI has been fairly loud on 30 and 17 CW and they were more than readable on 20 phone this afternoon. I feel much more confident going into the VP8 than I did Palmyra. However, I have noticed an inordinate amount of liddery on CW. How bereft of value one's life must be to waste so much time on something that produces absolutely nothing.

 

[mass-man]

thanks for the heads up. I could hear them this morning on 40m SSB, but never worked them. Modest antenna here needs improvement.

Trust me lots of "lid-like" behavior or fone also....and I will NEVER figure out why....