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Old 09-16-2018, 10:35 AM
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Default Prince George - SHA 20xxx talkgroups

I just stumbled into and am seeing a "growing list" of "generically labeled SHA talkgroups on the PG County system with TGIDs in the 20xxx range....

Seeing that, something that came to mind - when I saw what I thought was ISSI (or some other) testing between FiRST and PG county in the past (it's been quite a while), I recall that I was seeing talkgroup IDs in the 20xxx range that appeared to "increase" over time... at least, that what I remember. Coincidence?

It would be interesting to know if these talkgroups are all (or mostly) active at the same time, what areas units are reporting, and the user "calls" (i.e. "9404", etc.) are on each TGID. Also, are they being seen on the north site, south site, or both?
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Old 09-16-2018, 2:36 PM
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I was thinking the same thing when I checked the database this morning. Looking at Unitrunker when they did the ISSI tests in 2015, there were about a dozen talkgroups in the 20xxx range. Since then, I have never seen them active again on the AA/Balt sites.

District 3 CHART ops which covers PG & Montgomery became active on FIRST earlier this year. I wonder if this is how they get coverage (ISSI) on FiRST.
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Old 09-17-2018, 1:10 AM
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I drove through the PG (south site) area a few days ago for about 45mins from Charles Co. to Central Ave, I'll look at the logs for SHA units, but UT2 wasn't showing evidence of ISSI at that time.
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Old 09-17-2018, 8:32 AM
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Does UT show some specific indication of ISSI? I use Pro96Com 99% of the time and I don't think it has any specific indicator....

I think the only reason I believed it was ISSI (vs. having some type of actual display indicator in Pro96Com) was that they said would be testing ISSI during the timeframe, PG and FiRST were connected (neighbor sites) for a time and these 20xxx talkgroups appeared with obvious testing. If I recall, during that testing, they were driving back and forth in and out of coverage that is provided by the PG system to monitor hand-off between the systems - talking and constantly reporting their location, etc.

Now - having said that -- when I last visited Ocean City, OC and Worcester were connected as neighbors also (similar to seeing PG and FiRST Baltimore connected).

The PG listed 20xxx talkgroups remind me alot of the Harris 65xxx patches.... both with the TGID range as well as this posted note in the listings:
"The CHART talkgroup varies; there is only a single talkgroup for CHART at any given time."
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Old 09-17-2018, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
Does UT show some specific indication of ISSI? I use Pro96Com 99% of the time and I don't think it has any specific indicator....

I think the only reason I believed it was ISSI (vs. having some type of actual display indicator in Pro96Com) was that they said would be testing ISSI during the timeframe, PG and FiRST were connected (neighbor sites) for a time and these 20xxx talkgroups appeared with obvious testing. If I recall, during that testing, they were driving back and forth in and out of coverage that is provided by the PG system to monitor hand-off between the systems - talking and constantly reporting their location, etc.

Now - having said that -- when I last visited Ocean City, OC and Worcester were connected as neighbors also (similar to seeing PG and FiRST Baltimore connected).

The PG listed 20xxx talkgroups remind me alot of the Harris 65xxx patches.... both with the TGID range as well as this posted note in the listings:
"The CHART talkgroup varies; there is only a single talkgroup for CHART at any given time."
It's been a few years since I've seen it on a First site, but on the Peers (aka Neighbors in Procom96 terminology) tab, the Remote column value for the site linked via ISSI (or maybe some other technology) will alternate between the First site number and I assume the System Access value of the linked system. This is how I remember it, but I could be wrong.
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Old 09-17-2018, 9:38 AM
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I examined the logs and saw one active TG in the 25xxx range. It had 65 hits / channel grants over the space of about an hour (this was last Friday.) The TG hasn't been IDed on RRDB yet, but it appears as if it's CHART or SHA related. There's also an active DNR tg as well, 9501.
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Last edited by maus92; 09-17-2018 at 9:49 AM.. Reason: changed channel grant number
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Old 09-17-2018, 9:56 AM
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Do the subscriber IDs look correct for SHA?( TG 20454)
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Old 09-17-2018, 9:58 AM
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I can't make out the data in the image...
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
I can't make out the data in the image...
Can you save the image as a file and zoom in? Otherwise I can put it in Dropbox and you can download it from there. It's readable in its native format.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:10 AM
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Tried - blowing up just makes it blurry...
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:18 AM
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Dropbox links -

PG TGs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3vwxf3k8x...20tgs.PNG?dl=0

PG Users:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/59qsj3tn9e...Users.PNG?dl=0
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:28 AM
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The 222 and 253's look typical - the radio IDs on the 20xxx talkgroups are strange... I see that the earlier 20xxx talkgroups didn't show any activity during that session - probably because a new higher value 20xxx (dynamic? / transient?) talkgroup was created.

This requires more data - specifically, what the voice traffic is telling us --- unit numbers/IDs and areas being reported. SHA units typically provides lots of location information as they go. Does that sound like the same district reporting regardless of TGID?
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
The 222 and 253's look typical - the radio IDs on the 20xxx talkgroups are strange... I see that the earlier 20xxx talkgroups didn't show any activity during that session - probably because a new higher value 20xxx (dynamic? / transient?) talkgroup was created.

This requires more data - specifically, what the voice traffic is telling us --- unit numbers/IDs and areas being reported. SHA units typically provides lots of location information as they go. Does that sound like the same district reporting regardless of TGID?
20454 was the highest value TGs that UT2 recorded so far, but I don't monitor the system regularly (hardly at all.) I cannot receive PG at my home. The 91xxx userid range - I have no idea unless those are old radios? - not sure who has that range.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:40 AM
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I can't remember what the radioIDs were during what I think was ISSI testing years ago -- I'll have to see if I can find old logs.... I'll probably drive don towards PG in the coming days ... I have lots of time to fill this week!
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
I can't remember what the radioIDs were during what I think was ISSI testing years ago -- I'll have to see if I can find old logs.... I'll probably drive don towards PG in the coming days ... I have lots of time to fill this week!
2198xxx
2199xxx
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:16 PM
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It might not be an optimal time to monitor SHA talkgroups but I am watching PG North right now and it is showing a neighbor of 4A2 site 101 (FIRST Baltimore site).

Interestingly, I monitored that FIRST site late last week and see no indication from the logs of PG being a neighbor.

FWIW ... I've seen other odd/unexplained neighbor thing like this in the past on other systems.
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:29 PM
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I have seen some undocumented talkgroups... one looks like PG highways (2049), 180 (Sheriff?), and 10101 (encrypted, looks federal, RID 120xxxx and PG 253xxxx)
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:45 PM
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Had forgotten that there are some normal but odd 6 digit radio IDS on the PG system.... school buses (220xxx), some town law enforcement (299xxx?), MD DNR (211xxx...)
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Last edited by troymail; 09-17-2018 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 09-17-2018, 1:04 PM
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Started hearing SHA units 9311, 9314, and 9502, etc. on TGID 20666...some radio IDS of 0 (patch?) but other more realitic RIDs:

92294
92302
92316
92332
92334
92344 (9502)
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Last edited by troymail; 09-17-2018 at 2:51 PM..
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Old 09-18-2018, 9:03 AM
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A subscriber can use different RIDs for different systems depending on programming of both the radios and the systems. Maybe the SHA units are operating on the PG system directly vs. ISSI, i.e. using a different zone rather than a seamless roaming?

As far as UT indicating ISSI, the old version of UT would alternate the display of control channels. When monitoring the First AA site, I could see the neighboring sites basic stats. The Baltimore site would alternate between displaying its First cch and the cch for the PG system's north site cch. I have not seen this behavior for a while, but it may be related to me using UT2 which may handle the situation differently, rather than ISSI not being in use.
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