NXDN and/or ProVoice active in S.E. Michigan?

[iMONITOR]

Has anyone found any NXDN and/or ProVoice activity in S.E. Michigan? Specifically Macomb, and possibly Oakland, Wayne Counties?

I see some DMR listings in the RR database, but no NXDN/ProVoice. Maybe listeners aren't bothering to let us know so the database can be updated?

 

[RayAir]

Nxdn:
St Joseph Hospital Pontiac security
Crittenden Hospital security
Deltacom Type C 4800 TRS
William Beaumont Troy- 4800 Type C TRS
William Beaumont RO- 9600 Type C TRS
These are in the db.

There are some conventional repeaters (NX 4800) in the Southfield area licensed to Deltacom and they're in use by unid businesses. 462.53125 is one frequency that comes to mind.

DMR seems much more common in the area compared to NXDN.

As far as Provoice, you're not going to find any in SE MI. Clinton and Ingham Co's might have a few PV TGs on their EDACs systems, but nothing around around here.

 

[iMONITOR]

Nxdn:
St Joseph Hospital Pontiac security
Crittenden Hospital security
Deltacom Type C 4800 TRS
William Beaumont Troy- 4800 Type C TRS
William Beaumont RO- 9600 Type C TRS
These are in the db.

There are some conventional repeaters (NX 4800) in the Southfield area licensed to Deltacom and they're in use by unid businesses. 462.53125 is one frequency that comes to mind.

DMR seems much more common in the area compared to NXDN.

As far as Provoice, you're not going to find any in SE MI. Clinton and Ingham Co's might have a few PV TGs on their EDACs systems, but nothing around around here.

Thanks! Somehow I missed seeing the NXDN listings in the database. Are these systems using multiple sites like MPSCS P25, or do they typically have a single repeater? In other words, how close would I have to be to them to be able to monitor them?

 

[RayAir]

The only wide area system would be Deltacom's Type C TRS.
There's not much of interest on it. It's not nearly as busy as the Comsource Connect Plus.
What I've picked up on Deltacom TRS:
System techs, towing company, lawn care and a taxi service. The OTA alias feature is kind of neat to log on Deltacom's system (or other nxdn) though.

Depending on where you are in Macomb you should be able to monitor William Beaumont Troy-
Nexedge system.

 

[mtindor]

The only wide area system would be Deltacom's Type C TRS.
There's not much of interest on it. It's not nearly as busy as the Comsource Connect Plus.
What I've picked up on Deltacom TRS:
System techs, towing company, lawn care and a taxi service. The OTA alias feature is kind of neat to log on Deltacom's system (or other nxdn) though.

Depending on where you are in Macomb you should be able to monitor William Beaumont Troy-
Nexedge system.

The Deltacom system is much bigger than the DB suggests. And I'm not even sure who the primary operator is. The system consists of sites belonging to multiple Kenwood dealers in SE MI as well as Toledo Ohio area.

During tropo enhancement last night:

L289-13
461.5625
RAN:13
Neighbors:

L289-11: CC=517
L289-12: CC=681
L289-14: CC=581
L289-15: CC=715

So, site 13 is online somewhere as well as 11/12/14/15. There are too many options for 461.5625 to determine which site location it is going to be, and so it has not been submitted. But that basically confirms at least five sites. Sure, the neighbor list could be inaccurate and may not reflect sites online, but the likelihood is very great that it does reflect sites that are currently online.

And since they do not use a standard bandplan, or at least not across the board amongst all providers, one cannot even make an educated guess regarding sites 11/12/14/15.

If you are in Michigan and have a scanner that does NXDN and/or have the ability to run DSDPlus, finding NXDN sites would be an absolute no-brainer. They are all over the place. For every NXDN site documented in the DB, there are probably 5 missing / unaccounted for.

Mike

 

[RayAir]

DSD+ is my primary tool of choice so I have nxdn capability. I have discovered a few new TGs on the Deltacom off the Detroit site (I think). TG 60 is a bus transportation service and as for the others I'll have to check my notes and update the wiki. It is extremely difficult to narrow down a TG to a specific user (usually).
I was up in Lapeer a few months ago and in the db it lists an nx9600 system (Robinson Communications), it was actually 4800 Type C and an L289 so it's part of the system you mentioned.

I'll have to start monitoring more. I haven't done much lately. It is a large system, but it doesn't have much load on it.

 

[RayAir]

Here's another site for the L289 TRS:
452.01875 Control Ch
L289-24 RAN:24
TX Site: Perrington in Gratiot County
Licensed to Communications Specialists

 

[mtindor]

Ray,

The whole Deltacom is a fiasco from a DB standpoint

1. Robinson Communications Trunking System, Bad Axe, Michigan - Scanner Frequencies

That's the Robinson Communications one that you say is actually part of L289 DeltaCom

• You say the Burnside (Lapeer) site is actually NEXEDGE48 Type-C with System ID L289
• As you mentioned, the database represents that totally wrong
• It is likely none of those sites were added to the DB based upon monitoring, but rather purely based upon FCC information. Considering when it was first added, according to DB timestamps, NXDN was not even around then. So I suspect maybe somebody converted that from LTR to NXDN96 in the database.

IMO, this database entry should be deprecated completely and the Lapeer site added to Deltacom (if you remember all of the relevant info -- site ID, CC, freq, etc and could submit it to the Deltacom system).

2. https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8831

This is listed as C&C Communications (which is MidCom Service - MIDCOM Service - Two-way Radio Sales & Service).

• Shows in DB as NEXEDGE48
• Lists Site 3 as Spring Lake with license WPNQ605
• Does not list a System ID, although a highlighted cc/ac would suggest that somebody did monitor it
• No talkgroups and not touched by an admin since 2016
• This TRS in the DB probably should be deprecated and the site added to the wiki until somebody determines if it is part of L289, and is Site 3 or Site 26 so that it can be included in Deltacom.

Somebody should try and figure out if that is really Site 3. Why? Because in the DeltaCom TRS DB the same site (with same callsign) is listed as Site 26. It can't be both site 3 and Site 26.

3. https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=sysid&sysid=289

This is the actual DeltaCom listing. Given that it has more sites than either of the others, this is the one that probably should remain in the DB since it actually lists itself as NEXEDGE48 with a 289 System ID. (note: NXDN system IDs get entered in the DB without the L or R).

It appears that at the very least L289 is Deltacom ( Welcome | DeltaCom ), MidCOM Service / C&C Communications ( MIDCOM Service - Two-way Radio Sales & Service ), and Communications Specialists ( COMSPECINC ). Who is the primary, and what is it called? I cannot say. But I'm betting there are additional operators. There is a note on the MidCom site stating that multiple partners have joined together. And I suspect that it might extend into NW Ohio.

I can't find a license in MI or OH that would make any sense for the Site 13 that I had discovered (461.5625 cc -- neighbors 11/12/14/15).

I'm going to open a ticket on the Deltacom TRS regarding all of this, and may also include the site you find (24) since it doesn't appear to have been submitted to the DB. Of course I'll reference your post in the submission.

If I had an idea where the site 13 is that I found (likely NWOH, NEIN, or SEMI), I'll submit it as well.

Mike

 

[RayAir]

Yeah, these sites are a PITA. It took a while to drill down the voice frequencies for the most local site. Two of the frequencies in use weren't even on the same license. Complicating it further, there's no standard conversion to get the frequencies for the voice channels. I ended up just plugging possibles in a radio and waited to hear nxdn digital sounds. When a radio was transmitting on the system, I'd match the scanner noise to the DSD data indicating what channel number it is.

The best place to monitor this L289 TRS is in Detroit or Southfield. It is in moderate use in those areas.
I still have lots of monitoring to do to try and figure out the basic functions of the various talk group users.
I'm sure I'll have to do freq hunting too as i'm sure there's missing voice frequencies for those sites.

 

[mtindor]

Here's another site for the L289 TRS:
452.01875 Control Ch
L289-24 RAN:24
TX Site: Perrington in Gratiot County
Licensed to Communications Specialists

Ray,

Diid you happen to get the channel number (LCN) for 452.01875 when you were monitoring it? I know when I'm using DSDPlus to monitor such things, I often miss/forget to look in the channel activity window for that stuff.

At any rate, if you happen to know the LCN for 452.01875 please post it or submit it to the Deltacom database.

Tnx

Mike

 

[RayAir]

I did not write down the LCN. I think it was "916", but it doesn't jive with the LCN range for a local L289 site. I'll check next time I'm in Mt. Pleasant.

I'm not even sure if these meshed together sites use the same scheme for LCNs. It doesn't appear so.

 

[mtindor]

I did not write down the LCN. I think it was "916", but it doesn't jive with the LCN range for a local L289 site. I'll check next time I'm in Mt. Pleasant.

I'm not even sure if these meshed together sites use the same scheme for LCNs. It doesn't appear so.

From what it seems, there is nothing standard or ordinary about them. That makes for a pretty difficult time. Only way to figure them out is with DSDPlus and/or LCN Finder. Bummer.

Thanks. Wasn't urgent. Don't sweat it if you can't get it.

Mike

 

[mtindor]

Some Ohio folks are scoping out L289 Sites 11-15. Site 11 appears to be in Toledo Ohio ( WPPY294 - Smart LInk Systems) and Site 13 appears to be in Findlay Ohio (WPQA987 - Smart Link Systems). I also believe that Sites 11 through 15 are all in Ohio and are operated by Smart Link Systems, with Smart Link Systems likely being one of the multiple partners of the Deltacom system.

There are no sensible licenses in MI for 464.125 and 461.5625 that would make sense for Sites 11 and 13 being in MI, and an Ohioan just yesterday made some observations about Site 11 and Site 13 while in Toledo, Perrysburg, and Martin Ohio that make me pretty confident that these two sites are indeed in Ohio and operated by Smart Link Systems.

So far, for the "Deltacom" system, it looks like there are at least the following partners:

Communications Specialists ( http://www.comspecinc )
DeltaCom ( Welcome | DeltaCom )
MIDCOM Service / C & C Communications ( MIDCOM Service - Two-way Radio Sales & Service )
Smart Link Systems in Ohio ( no website )

None of those company websites (other than MIDCOM) give any useful information related to the NXDN network.

MIDCOM Service - NEXEDGE Digital Wide-Area Trunking Systems

MIDCOM Service - News

If you read those URLs, they suggest that in 2014 MIDCOM put up a site in Muskegon Co, then added Ottawa and Oceana counties, and that in 2015 they joined a collective of other NEXEDGE dealers who connected their systems via IP for wide area trunking thus extending coverage into Grand Rapids, Lansing, Detroit, Southfield, Pine Knob, and south into Toledo Ohio. (And who knows how long ago that was put on the website, probably quite a while ago).

The News and Info page suggests that this year they embarked on Stage 4 buildout of the NEXEDGE system with expansion into other areas or increased coverage in existing areas. I don't know if that means that MIDCOM / C & C Communications are expanding or if they mean that partners were expanding.

At any rate, I have confidence that some sleuthing Ohioans will figure out Sites 11 - 15 for sure over time, and when they do the information will be submitted to the DeltaCom NXDN48 trunked system in the DB.

Mike

 

[mtindor]

I was up in Lapeer a few months ago and in the db it lists an nx9600 system (Robinson Communications), it was actually 4800 Type C and an L289 so it's part of the system you mentioned.

Ray,

Do you happen to know which frequency on Robinson's Lapeer site you were monitoring? And you do you happen to remember what Site ID it announced. You had said it was NXDN48 and advertised as System 289. But I'd like more info. I'm just really curious if Robinsons is really connected with the Deltacom stuff.

Incidentally, licenses in the DB for the following are all Thumb Radio Inc out of Bad Axe MI.

Mid Michigan Repeaters
Mid-Michigan Repeaters
Robinson, Mary
Robinson, Mary A
Thumb Radio Inc
Thumb Radio Inc DBA Mid Michigan Repeaters

Their licenses are either analog, NXDN48 digital, or a combination thereof.

A Michigan Business search indicates both Thumb Radio Inc and Mid Michigan Repeaters as being owned by the Robinsons.

Thus, if it is absolute fact that Thumb Radio NXDN sites are advertising as System 289, they likely are a part of Deltacom and the "Robinsons Communications" database entry (which interestingly contains no verified information) should be deprecated.

But, if the THumb Radio NXDN sites are part of their own system and not connected to anyone else, the "Robinsons Communications" system in the DB should be changed to "Thumb Radio Inc" or "Mid Michigan Repeaters" as the name, and the type of system should be changed to Type C NEXEDGE48 instead of NEXEDGE96.

Thumb Radio Inc aka Mid Michigan Repeaters Google Map

Items in blue on that map indicate trunked licenses. Black dots indicate conventional licenses. Most convential sites do not list NXDN emissions on them, but some do. For those conventional licenses that do, they have trunked licenses at the same locations listing NXDN emissions. I think the "Caro" conventional license is the only one that lists NXDN emissions but does not have a corresponding trunked license associated with that site.

If you [or anyone else reading this] is ever able to confirm any Thumb NXDN sites being online (whether they are advertising system 289 or some other system ID), RadioReference would sure like to know about it

Mike

 

[RayAir]

I dont really get out that way too much to check the L289 "Robinson" site. I just noted it was 4800, not 9600 like the db said a while ago.