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Old 02-04-2018, 7:25 PM
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Exclamation Motorola DMR Programming question/s...

I've been trying to figure this out and obviously I'm stumped because I'm here asking for a little bit of insight....

I've got several radios all programed and working on my licensed frequencies using my licensed copy of the CPS. Just getting that out of the way. So before I added a repeater to the mix everything was operating fine. When I got the repeater and got the duplexer re-tuned I put it in the mix. So now when I try to transmit through the repeater my radios will key up like they're supposed to, but only in very close proximity to the repeater. Like within 200 yards. Once I'm beyond that the channel "bonks" me out... IE I get busy channel tone. If I enable talkaround, back to normal operation.... So my question is even if I'm outside the range of the repeater (which I definitely shouldn't be) shouldn't my radio still key up and transmit?

My admit criteria is set for always, and everything else is as open as I can make it.

Any insight into this matter would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-04-2018, 7:31 PM
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Others will probably have more suggestions, but I vote for...

1. Duplexer is mis-tuned and you have too much insertion loss on either TX, RX or both.

2. Duplexer is mis-tuned and you have desense.

3. Repeater is mis-aligned.
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Old 02-04-2018, 7:38 PM
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Others will probably have more suggestions, but I vote for...

1. Duplexer is mis-tuned and you have too much insertion loss on either TX, RX or both.

2. Duplexer is mis-tuned and you have desense.

3. Repeater is mis-aligned.
How would I know if if duplexer was mis-tuned?


Okay so I forgot to say that I bought the repeater and it came bench tested and repeater was tuned for a GMRS pair. Duplexer too. So to test my new purchase, I programed a mobile and HT along with the repeater for a digital channel using the frequencies that came with the duplexer. Hopefully that makes sense.... Anyway it appeared to work fine, although extensive testing was not done... So I thought I had tested it sufficiently.

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Old 02-04-2018, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
Others will probably have more suggestions, but I vote for...



1. Duplexer is mis-tuned and you have too much insertion loss on either TX, RX or both.



2. Duplexer is mis-tuned and you have desense.



3. Repeater is mis-aligned.

4. Duplexer is hooked up backwards.
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Old 02-04-2018, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeOxlong View Post
4. Duplexer is hooked up backwards.
2nd that.
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Old 02-04-2018, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeOxlong View Post
4. Duplexer is hooked up backwards.
3rd vote!

If you have access to an SWR meter, check forward and reflected between the repeater TX and the duplexer. Do this with a dummy load in place of the antenna. If it is tuned poorly, your SWR will be high. If it is tuned perfectly, you should see no reflected.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeOxlong View Post
4. Duplexer is hooked up backwards.


4th vote.

Also make sure you did not force PL-259 connectors onto N connectors like I did once. BTDT.


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Old 02-04-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
4th vote.

Also make sure you did not force PL-259 connectors onto N connectors like I did once. BTDT.


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I'm on my way to check it now. The repeater site is only about 5 minutes from here. It would not be the first time the shop I had it tuned at screwed up

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Old 02-05-2018, 8:14 AM
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Sorry for the very basic question... You mentioned that the repeater was formerly programmed with GMRS channels -This IS a digital repeater, right?

John AC4JK
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Old 02-05-2018, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by chief21 View Post
Sorry for the very basic question... You mentioned that the repeater was formerly programmed with GMRS channels -This IS a digital repeater, right?

John AC4JK
Yes it is. And I have located the problem. Duplexer reversed. So now my question is, can I just switch the jumpers from rx and TX? Or is there something within the duplexer itself that would prevent that from working?

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Old 02-05-2018, 9:10 AM
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Default Motorola DMR Programming question/s...

Just switch the jumpers. Things should work after you do that


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Last edited by kayn1n32008; 02-05-2018 at 9:16 AM..
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by N1GTL View Post
3rd vote!

If you have access to an SWR meter, check forward and reflected between the repeater TX and the duplexer. Do this with a dummy load in place of the antenna. If it is tuned poorly, your SWR will be high. If it is tuned perfectly, you should see no reflected.


RDAC will actually log high SWR. Used it on several occasions to check repeaters.

Most recently, I got called back on an install I did. Get there, quickly see I left the antenna disconnected from the duplexer. Check RDAC…and we are working but instead of seeing an error saying 35:1 SWR it’s now saying 28:1. So I throw a load on the PA output. No errors in RDAC, everything is happy. Then I check the duplexer. Looks as labeled but I decide to pull the labels (which I had made) and check the OEM labels. What do you know, I mislabeled the thing. Swapped the labels around, swapped the jumpers and all was well.


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Old 02-05-2018, 10:46 AM
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RDAC will actually log high SWR. Used it on several occasions to check repeaters.
It will give you high SWR alerts but it will not give you the REASON. High swr could be caused by a number of things. My suggestion was for checking to make sure the duplexer was tuned correctly.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by N1GTL View Post
3rd vote!

If you have access to an SWR meter, check forward and reflected between the repeater TX and the duplexer. Do this with a dummy load in place of the antenna. If it is tuned poorly, your SWR will be high. If it is tuned perfectly, you should see no reflected.


RDAC will actually log high SWR. Used it on several occasions to check repeaters.

Most recently, I got called back on an install I did. Get there, quickly see I left the antenna disconnected from the duplexer. Check RDAC…and we are working but instead of seeing an error saying 35:1 SWR it’s now saying 28:1. So I throw a load on the PA output. No errors in RDAC, everything is happy. Then I check the duplexer. Looks as labeled but I decide to pull the labels (which I had made) and check the OEM labels. What do you know, I mislabeled the thing. Swapped the labels around, swapped the jumpers and all was well.


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Old 02-05-2018, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by chief21 View Post
Sorry for the very basic question... You mentioned that the repeater was formerly programmed with GMRS channels -This IS a digital repeater, right?

John AC4JK
Motorola does not sell analog-only repeaters. The "cheapest" you can go is a MOTOTRBO repeater, and you configure it for analog.

The hardware is good, just configure it to analog only so you are within Part 95.

The FCC knows well that there is Part 90 only type certified equipment in use in GMRS and acknowledges this. Still not legal, but their publications sound along the lines of "follow Part 95 and keep your nose clean".
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Old 02-05-2018, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by masstech View Post
Motorola does not sell analog-only repeaters. The "cheapest" you can go is a MOTOTRBO repeater, and you configure it for analog.

The hardware is good, just configure it to analog only so you are within Part 95.

The FCC knows well that there is Part 90 only type certified equipment in use in GMRS and acknowledges this. Still not legal, but their publications sound along the lines of "follow Part 95 and keep your nose clean".

Don't need to do all that, because I have a part 90 license. Which was also totally unrelated to the subject. Thanks for the info though.
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Old 02-05-2018, 3:05 PM
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Yes, that response is meant for chief21.
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Old 02-05-2018, 3:07 PM
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Yes, that response is meant for chief21.
Ah okay. Thanks

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Old 02-05-2018, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by N1GTL View Post
It will give you high SWR alerts but it will not give you the REASON. High swr could be caused by a number of things. My suggestion was for checking to make sure the duplexer was tuned correctly.
Which can be done through RDAC via the process of elimination (test repeater into a load, test duplexer into a load, test antenna) using the built in tools. If one doesn't have access to a SWR meter you can still figure out where the issue may be centered around. Just another tool to use to reach the same conclusion.
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Old 02-05-2018, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MCore25 View Post
Which can be done through RDAC via the process of elimination (test repeater into a load, test duplexer into a load, test antenna) using the built in tools. If one doesn't have access to a SWR meter you can still figure out where the issue may be centered around. Just another tool to use to reach the same conclusion.
Okay so new questions have arisen... If I attach my swr meter to the duplexer output, with my antenna attached (no dummy load available) I get a 3:1 swr reading and about 25 watts of output power.

If I swap the leads on the duplexer, I get nothing.

So I'm guessing way 1 is the right way haha

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