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72mustang

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I will admit... I know nothing about 2 way radios. I went in to our local dealer the other day questioning about getting another CB for my F150. He tried to sell me on a VHF Motorola pm400. Said it has better distance and that no one really used CB anymore. Heres my questions..

- I only have one dealer here and all he sells is Motorola
- Price for the 25 watt VHF is $389 Cnd.
- I see online an online dealer has a Kenwood TM281 for $175

With the Motorola I have warranty service and he will program whatever channels I want in it for no charge

Does the Kenwood not offer the same stuff as the Motorola or is the Motorola overpriced ?
 

72mustang

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I want to get a VHF radio instead of a CB. It is for a F150 and personal use. What makes/models do you recommend ? What antenna ? Does a 60watt repeater work that much better than a 25 watt ?

- do you need 2 antenna's for a dual band radio ?
- can you scan both at the same time ?
- dual band... does this mean upper and lower ? Or VHF and UHF all in one ?

When recommending radios... please keep price in consideration. I see Kenwood 281 for $175cnd and another brand ( y ?? ) at around $220 starting point.

What should be looking for and if not, regretting not getting a year down the road.

Thanks for the help. Im in Southern Alberta, Canada.
 

mmckenna

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I want to get a VHF radio instead of a CB. It is for a F150 and personal use. What makes/models do you recommend ? What antenna ? Does a 60watt repeater work that much better than a 25 watt ?

So, that question pulls a lot of answers along with it. Basically there are 3 "big" amateur radio manufactures, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu. If you ask 3 different people which one is best, you'll get at least 3 different answers, maybe more. Yaesu makes some good stuff, but personally I've always found there microphones flimsy. Kenwood makes some great stuff. I use a lot of their commercial radio gear. Most of their microphones for the ham radios are the commercial microphones. Icom makes good stuff also. Basically it's going to come down to your preference. The pricing is all going to be pretty competitive if you are comparing apples to apples.

Antenna: You will get the best performance from a permanently installed antenna in the center of your truck roof. You can get a local radio shop to install the cable and mount for you, and it'll outlast your truck. Depending on what band(s) you chose to work on, VHF, UHF for VHF&UHF, that will dictate what antenna you need. Go with the commercial stuff, it'll outlast some of the purely ham radio designed antennas.

Power: 60 watts will get you a little further than 25 watts, but not over twice as far. VHF and UHF tend to work line of site, so while higher power will get you a little further, it usually helps more in getting a stronger/cleaner signal to the other end. Try not to get too hung up on power output, it doesn't make the difference that a lot of newer ham operators think.

- do you need 2 antenna's for a dual band radio ?

No, they make dual band antennas, so one mount, one antenna, one cable into the back of the radio.

- can you scan both at the same time ?

Usually, depends on the exact model.

- dual band... does this mean upper and lower ? Or VHF and UHF all in one ?

It means two separate bands. Most common with be the VHF 2 meter band (144 to 148MHz) and the UHF 70cm band (430 to 450MHz). There are some 3 and 4 band radios out there, but they likely would have little use unless you spent a lot of time in Edmonton or Calgary.

When recommending radios... please keep price in consideration. I see Kenwood 281 for $175cnd and another brand ( y ?? ) at around $220 starting point.

Kenwood 281 would be a good solid 2 meter radio. For a basic starter radio this would probably serve you well. It's based off a commercial model and is pretty durable. Other ones to look at would be the Icom IC-2300 and the Yaesu FT-1802, FT-1900, FT-2800. All of those would be pretty comparable to the Kenwood 281. Depending on where you are, you would need to decide if you wanted a single band or dual band radio. You'll need to check with the local hams and see what they recommend. 2 meters is a pretty safe bet if you had to choose one band. It's very likely there are several 2 meter repeaters within reach of you. Down here in California, it's pretty hard to get some where in the state, even in the mountainous regions, where you are not in range of at least one 2 meter repeater. I know there are some guys on this site from Alberta, and they may be able to help you better.

What should be looking for and if not, regretting not getting a year down the road.

Again, you need to find out what's in your area. If you don't travel a lot and everything is on 2 meters in your area, a dual band radio might be a waste of money. I started off with a durable 2 meter radio. I upgraded to dual band radios over the years, but now 20+ years in, I'm back to just a VHF radio, and am quite happy with that set up.

Thanks for the help. Im in Southern Alberta, Canada.

Good luck to you!
 

72mustang

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Thanks for the quick responce. We have one shop here where I live and they only sell Motorola. (good for service and warranty ). The model they want to sell is the PM400. Price here is $389 for the 25 watt and about 60-70 more for the 45 watt. To me, that seems like alot of money for something like the Kenwood 281 which is selling online here in Canada for $175. I would have to get the shop here or someone who knows what channels to download. Im guessing about an hours labor total. Not much writeup about the PM400... but it seem to be the only one the shop will sell.
 

robertmac

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You get what you pay for

Although a lot of people today are recommending the cheaper Chinese radios, you really get what you pay for. As these radios for mobile use are relatively new, long term reliability is not known. I don't think once you go above 50 watts that there is much advantage, but again this may depend on talking simplex or through repeaters and were you are located. The first thing that MUST be done, is talk to a local ham radio operator. Or club. Look at their set up. And the last advise I will give, as we are hearing far to much of this, is: do not rely on a hand held radio with a magnet mount antenna. They are no substitute for a decent mobile. Contacting a local ham or club should lead you on the right path of finding a proper radio/antenna and the proper use of said equipment and operator procedures. As the previous post says, stick with the big 3 producers first. Yes, they have more bells and whistles, but at least you will have them and not regret it later. If you haven't looked at the reviews on eHam.com, suggest you look there once you have some ideas from the local ham on radios and antennas.
 

mmckenna

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I agree, I'd stay away from any radios that have a brand name you cannot pronounce.

The Motorola PM400 wouldn't be a suitable radio for 2 meter ham. It will work, but it's expensive, it isn't flexible, and any time you want to make a change you'll need to either have them program it for you, or spend about $400 on the programming software and PC interface. I'd really stick with the dedicated amateur radios until you get yourself situated and have some experience under your belt. $389 is a bit high for a 25 watt radio, but I may be wrong considering the exchange rate. Motorola does make some great radios, but I wouldn't call the PM400 a "great" radio. It's a low end/basic commercial radio. Motorola stuff gets really expensive once you get above these lower tier radios, I mean, REALLY expensive. Great radios, I use them in my truck, but I have all the programming gear at work, plus I tend to get retired stuff free.

I would have that Motorola shop install the antenna mount for you. They have the right tools, experience and test equipment to do it right. It might cost you $50 bucks or so, but you'd spend that much on asprin, bandaids, and the hole saw. What you will likely need is what is commonly called an NMO mount. Motorola will often call them TAD/TAE mounts. I bet there is a ham operator in that shop somewhere that would be able to help you out. It's pretty common for those guys to do it as a job and as a hobby.

There are a number of amateur radio dealers on the internet that would be happy to work with you. HRO, Ham Radio Outlet ( Ham Radio Outlet - World's Largest Supplier of Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Equipment. Sales, Supplies, and Service. ) is a pretty good place. Universal Radio, Amateur Electronic Supply, there are some others.

I agree, find a local ham operator or ham club and talk to them. What you need to be careful of, though, is sometimes these guys are "into" a certain thing at the moment, and they'll try and talk you into it also. One of the big things in amateur radio right now is digital. There are some digital radios that are ham only, and some that are commercial digital radios. The stuff can get expensive and there are a number of protocols and none of them are compatible with the others. You really need to stick to a basic analog single or dual band mobile until you get yourself established.

Be careful that you don't get talked into something that is more than what you need. That tends to lead to a lot of confusion, disillusionment, and frustration. For your first radio, keep it simple and basic. Don't go for the real cheap Chinese stuff. Those tend to have a lot of neat sounding features, but they can be very difficult to program and you won't use 90% of the features they have. Really, something like the Kenwood TM281 would be a great starter radio. Whatever you choose, see if you can find a local ham operator to program a few things into it for you so you can get started. It's no fun to have a nice new radio but not be able to talk to anyone on it.
 
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WA0CBW

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Well, you are trying to compare apples and oranges. CB and VHF radios are not the same. In most cases the VHF will require an FCC license and a frequency(s) assigned by the FCC. Who is it that you want (or need) to talk to? That should help you decide which FCC radio service is best for your needs.

The price for both the Motorola and Kenwood radio are about right for the models indicated. But then those radios aren't exactly comparable either.
BB
 

WB4CS

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To go along with what WA0CBW said, you've got 3 different radios here.

A CB is, well, a CB. You talk to truckers, locals, no license required.

The Motorola is usually used for commercial/business radio. License required and you'll only talk to other users that would be on your same assigned frequency, usually from the same business.

The Kenwood TM 281 is for Amateur Radio use. Amateur Radio requires a license to use.

As WA0CBW mentioned, what is your intended use for the radio? That will help decide what type of radio and what radio service you need installed.

Good luck!
 

72mustang

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To go along with what WA0CBW said, you've got 3 different radios here.

A CB is, well, a CB. You talk to truckers, locals, no license required.

The Motorola is usually used for commercial/business radio. License required and you'll only talk to other users that would be on your same assigned frequency, usually from the same business.

The Kenwood TM 281 is for Amateur Radio use. Amateur Radio requires a license to use.

As WA0CBW mentioned, what is your intended use for the radio? That will help decide what type of radio and what radio service you need installed.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the advise stated from all.

All I really know is I went in to the local shop to inquire about a CB and they said CB is dead in the area but local people use the PM400 and he would program some LAN (sp ? ) channels and I could just listen away. I said I wanted something to use with friends out hunting ect. He said to get a VHF as we are an open area here.. quite flat.

How does the Kenwood 281 work ? Do you program channels (frequencies) into it and just scan those ? Or does it come from factory scanning all frequencies and then locks in on a channel people are using ? And, Im only inquiring about the 281 as this is what online reviews say is a good bang for the buck.

Why is the pm400 so much money then ? I know you get what you pay for, but why is the pm400, a lower model in the Motoroloa line, over twice as much as lower model's amatuer radios' ? How do the two differer in what they do ?

I also cannot find/google any local Ham clubs within several hours of me. Bummer.
 

robertmac

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Look before you leap

Another word of caution. Other than FRS frequencies, there are no "open" frequencies in Alberta. If you want to use it for hunting, stick with FRS bubble radios. Industry Canada will give you a license to operate on your own frequency which they will assign. You can't assume that any frequency you pick is not already authorized and licensed for that frequency. No one wants to interfere with fire, ems and police. The LAD frequencies you mentioned are still licensed to a number of business people. I would suggest if you don't want to look at ham radio, then call your closest Industry Canada office and ask them about license. Ham radios are only intended for ham frequencies. Yes, some illegally have or modify them, but out of band they can cause spurious interference to licensed users. And generally, the power of the radio decreases as you move out of the ham band. And there are no MURS frequencies in Canada yet that I a aware. Industry Canada was looking at this, but it means a lot of licensed users would have to put up with interference or migrate to another frequency. And please don't look at Marine Radios as some suggest in other posts as they are only legal on water. Again, Industry Canada has allotted some of the Marine frequencies to businesses in land so there is a risk of interference to licensed users using those radios. There are ham clubs in Southern Alberta. Of course that is a large area, but Medicine Hat, Lethbridge has clubs. And there are a lot of amateur radio operators in Southern Alberta.
 

mmckenna

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To use the Kenwood TM-281 you would need to have a valid amateur radio license. It is strictly an amateur radio, however some hacking can make them do some things that are not technically legal.

Motorola is expensive partly because of the name, partly because it has some functions that an amateur radio wouldn't. In reality, there really isn't any reason the price difference should be so big.

The LAN channels they were talking about were likely the trucking company channels. You would need to have a license to use those, but sometimes things don't always happen in a way that is legal.

Kenwood TM-281 can be programmed from the front panel for the amateur radio frequencies. You can also use PC software to do it. It will scan, if you set it up that way.

If you really are only going to listen to the VHF trucking channels, and not transmit, the Kenwood will receive on the VHF band outside the amateur radio portion.
 

WB4CS

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All I really know is I went in to the local shop to inquire about a CB and they said CB is dead

Sounds like you need to stop going to that radio shop, they sound like idiots. So far, they've told you that CB is dead, which is possible in your area but highly unlikely. And it sounds like they are trying to sell you a radio that you don't need and you'll need a license for.

If you and your friends mainly want the radio for hunting, as someone else mentioned, FRS radios are your best bet. Second best would be a CB.

Good luck!
 

Rt169Radio

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Yes, if you want to stay in contact while hunting or fishing. You should try FRS, CB, MURS, or GMRS (if you and your friends have a license for it) You not allowed to use anything else due to the fact that most of the other radio bands are for business, public safety, ham radio, etc.
 

72mustang

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Yes, if you want to stay in contact while hunting or fishing. You should try FRS, CB, MURS, or GMRS (if you and your friends have a license for it) You not allowed to use anything else due to the fact that most of the other radio bands are for business, public safety, ham radio, etc.

Are you saying that not one channel, frequency, ect... on a 2 way mobile radio can be used by joe blow without a licence ? Nothing in the lower, nothing in the higher, ect ?????? Is it not illigal to listen only ??? Or just talk ??
 

robertmac

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NO MURS and GMRS different

As the OP stated in his second post "Im in Southern Alberta, Canada.". Thus there are NO MURS frequencies yet in Alberta/Canada. And there is no license requirement for GMRS as power is limited and NO Repeaters in Alberta/Canada. CB, although getting into the peak this year or next of skip, will be useless during the day if using for hunting. At least with CB he will not be interfering with any legit user. FRS/GMRS not prone to skip, but range varies greatly depending on radio, terrain, and bush cover. And since he mentions for hunting, the assumption is terrain and bush cover may be a problem if going to the mountains or Northern Alberta. If hunting in Southern Alberta shouldn't be a problem. Plus, I am not certain of the legality of using radios when hunting. Have not hunted or looked as Sustainable Development web side on legalities of radios while hunting big game.
 

kayn1n32008

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Ok let's start again, Please ignore any speak about the FCC, MURS, and GMRS/FRS.

MURS does not exist in CANADA,

GMRS/FRS, in CANADA are limited to 2w, no repeaters and fixed antennas. GMRS/FRS is almost Totally useless on Canadian roads unless you are convoying in the same direction.

Based on your OP, the radio shop you went to is suggesting you look at getting a VHF radio for the LAD and Alberta Open channels.

In Western CANADA there is 10 'common' VHF frequencies that are, in western CANADA, known as the 'Basic Ten'. Anyone can apply to Industry Canada for a license for these ten frequencies. These frequencies are widely used in the trucking/oil industry as both common chat channels and resource road channels(I know this because I use these channels on a regular basis along with others that are oilpatch specific). Almost all of these 10 channels have different area restrictions, but these restrictions are rarely observed, and the LAD and AB-OPEN channels have basically become a freeforall. These VHF channels are, in CANADA, limited to 30w.

While CB may still widely used in the US, VHF is king of the road in BC, AB, SASK, NWT, and Yukon, to the point that I would not waste my time installing a CB while traveling in western Canada.

While the Motorola radio you mentioned is decent, there are lots of other options out there for a lot less money. I have bought 2 used Kenwood mobiles for less than half the dealer quoted cost of CA$300+. As other posters have stated the TM-281 is legal only on the ham band, and although modified it can operate across the whole VHF band, you risk fines and having the radio seized by IC if they catch you using it outside of the ham band. And yes they do set up check stops with RCMP looking for modified ham gear.

If you want more info please PM me and I will help you out.

Well, you are trying to compare apples and oranges. CB and VHF radios are not the same. In most cases the VHF will require an FCC license and a frequency(s) assigned by the FCC. Who is it that you want (or need) to talk to? That should help you decide which FCC radio service is best for your needs.

The price for both the Motorola and Kenwood radio are about right for the models indicated. But then those radios aren't exactly comparable either.
BB

Please read the OP again. He is in Canada. The FCC has zero jurisdiction north of The Canada/US border. He needs to deal with Industry Canada.

Sounds like you need to stop going to that radio shop, they sound like idiots. So far, they've told you that CB is dead, which is possible in your area but highly unlikely. And it sounds like they are trying to sell you a radio that you don't need and you'll need a license for.

If you and your friends mainly want the radio for hunting, as someone else mentioned, FRS radios are your best bet. Second best would be a CB.

Good luck!

As I stated, as one that also lives in ALBERTA, the shop he went to did give him good advise. In western Canada, you are more likely to get help on one of the LAD or AB-Open channels before you get help on a CB. Remember what is going on on CB in Alabama does not reflect on what is happening in Alberta which is a couple of thousand miles north and in a completely different country.


To go along with what WA0CBW said, you've got 3 different radios here.

A CB is, well, a CB. You talk to truckers, locals, no license required.

The Motorola is usually used for commercial/business radio. License required and you'll only talk to other users that would be on your same assigned frequency, usually from the same business.

The Kenwood TM 281 is for Amateur Radio use. Amateur Radio requires a license to use.

As WA0CBW mentioned, what is your intended use for the radio? That will help decide what type of radio and what radio service you need installed.

Good luck!

Again, you are more likely to see VHF in trucks in western Canada, than CB. Or you will see both, but the CB is usually shut off, with the VHF on.
 
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loumaag

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Well, you are trying to compare apples and oranges. CB and VHF radios are not the same. In most cases the VHF will require an FCC license and a frequency(s) assigned by the FCC. Who is it that you want (or need) to talk to? That should help you decide which FCC radio service is best for your needs.

The price for both the Motorola and Kenwood radio are about right for the models indicated. But then those radios aren't exactly comparable either.
BB
Pay attention, the FCC is not involved.

To go along with what WA0CBW said, you've got 3 different radios here.

A CB is, well, a CB. You talk to truckers, locals, no license required.

The Motorola is usually used for commercial/business radio. License required and you'll only talk to other users that would be on your same assigned frequency, usually from the same business.

The Kenwood TM 281 is for Amateur Radio use. Amateur Radio requires a license to use.

As WA0CBW mentioned, what is your intended use for the radio? That will help decide what type of radio and what radio service you need installed.

Good luck!
He already said what he wants it for, read the topic

Sounds like you need to stop going to that radio shop, they sound like idiots. So far, they've told you that CB is dead, which is possible in your area but highly unlikely. And it sounds like they are trying to sell you a radio that you don't need and you'll need a license for.

If you and your friends mainly want the radio for hunting, as someone else mentioned, FRS radios are your best bet. Second best would be a CB.

Good luck!
You have no idea what the situation is in Alberta, CA. Please stop posting like you do.

Everyone in this topic, read the following:
Please read the OP again. He is in Canada. The FCC has zero jurisdiction north of The Canada/US border. He needs to deal with Industry Canada.

Any further posting of misinformation for this OP will be considered reasonable cause to be deleted and further action taken. He came looking for help in his country, not the United States. For those of you who can continue to aid this individual with good information from a Canadian point of view, continue to do so. The rest of you, stop posting.
 

72mustang

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In Western CANADA there is 10 'common' VHF frequencies that are, in western CANADA, known as the 'Basic Ten'. Anyone can apply to Industry Canada for a license for these ten frequencies. These frequencies are widely used in the trucking/oil industry as both common chat channels and resource road channels(I know this because I use these channels on a regular basis along with others that are oilpatch specific). Almost all of these 10 channels have different area restrictions, but these restrictions are rarely observed, and the LAD and AB-OPEN channels have basically become a freeforall. These VHF channels are, in CANADA, limited to 30w.

While CB may still widely used in the US, VHF is king of the road in BC, AB, SASK, NWT, and Yukon, to the point that I would not waste my time installing a CB while traveling in western Canada.

If you want more info please PM me and I will help you out.



Please read the OP again. He is in Canada. The FCC has zero jurisdiction north of The Canada/US border. He needs to deal with Industry Canada.



As I stated, as one that also lives in ALBERTA, the shop he went to did give him good advise. In western Canada, you are more likely to get help on one of the LAD or AB-Open channels before you get help on a CB. Remember what is going on on CB in Alabama does not reflect on what is happening in Alberta which is a couple of thousand miles north and in a completely different country.




Again, you are more likely to see VHF in trucks in western Canada, than CB. Or you will see both, but the CB is usually shut off, with the VHF on.

This above is correct, or at least what the radio shop told me. There are several ( 4 in our area ) open LAD channels that everyone uses from buisness, delivery, hunters, travellers, ect... CB is dead in Southern Alberta due to its openess and flat land. VHF is the king. The dealer said the Motorola PM400 he would sell/install would be a VHF model and he would install those 4 LAN channels as well as any other local channel I wanted to listed too, but not talk too. I then started looking around and seen other radio's half the price of the Motorola and then found this website and thought I would ask here. Thanks to those who's responded.

I like the fact that some radio's have the removeable faceplate... perfect for me as my F150 does not have much, if any, installation places without congesting the dash. Now... i know this is overkill.. but If I was going to spend $400 on a motorola PM400 locally... I can purchase online here in Canada a Yaesu 7900 and/or 8800 for the same price... give or take $20. The 8800 seems to have a heck of alot of buttons and stuff... but since its on sale for the same price of a 7900.. Im thinking this might be good as If I find out down the road that this radio stuff is not for me... resale might be better. Also... with my carreer... Im prone to move every several years and do not know where I'll go and what, if any, VHF or UHF channels there will be. At this point I do not think Im interested in takeing a test and getting a Ham operators' licence. Not my piece of cake. But since CB is dead here.. and by alot of other opionions here in Albera... its dead in all of Western Canada.... so CB is out. I'll still keep googling and reading up on things.. because as mentioned before... I came here blind and am researching/learing each day.
 
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