FF needs help w/ multiple scanner setup

Status
Not open for further replies.

DR04

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Jo Daviess County, Illinois
I'm a new volunteer firefighter and noticing that my Minitor V pager/receiver isn't cutting it in my basement, where my office is located. I'm missing calls, audio is choppy, not good.

To improve this I want to 1) install a desktop scanner in my office, and 2) a mobile scanner for my personal vehicle (I have to drive to the station to respond to get on the rig and respond). I don't think a scanner can discriminate the tones they sound out for my department, but I can discriminate myself from the dispatcher's message.

For the desktop install I'd like to mount an antenna on the side of my home - it can be a decent size but preferably not crazy in appearance and semi-low profile. I can drill through and run a RG-8 cable and then adapt to my exist rg6 run to my office if that sounds feasible.

For the mobile install I'd like to mount a scanner in my personal vehicle. Would appreciate recommended setups there for an antenna mounted to my roof rack and scanners.

My dispatcher and department uses narrowband frequencies around 155 Mhz, analog I believe. Nearest tower is about 7 miles from my home, rural area. I'm all ears to recommended setups, radios, especially antennas. I have decent technical proficiency although I've been out of the radio game since my high school amateur radio days - happy to play catch up and refresh my memory.

Thanks in advance. If I can clarify anything or add detail, let me know!
 

DJ11DLN

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,068
Location
Mudhole, IN
For scanners that will decode fire tone-out, I believe the Uniden BC125at (handheld) and BCT15x (base/mobile) will do that. the wiki here can answer that for you.

Motorola also sells a charge base for the Minitors that incorporates an external antenna connection. We had to set up a couple of these for people in the fringe areas for our Dispatch. They come with a rubber duck but I think it's a standard BNC connection (memory not what it was) so you could put an antenna up somewhere above grade to improve reception. They may not still be making them for Minitor V's but you can probably find one on eBay easily enough. Those also incorporate an amplified speaker.

Also check your state laws in re scanner operation in your POV, I am thinking IL frowns on that just as IN does. Being a VFF may or may not grant you an exemption to this.
 

hiegtx

Mentor
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
11,169
Location
Dallas, TX
The BC125AT does not show to have fire tone-out capability. The BCT346XT BC346XTC does, if you want a hand held.
 

NYRHKY94

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
1,453
Location
Brunswick County, NC
If you don't want or need to monitor digital systems, the Uniden BCT15X is a very nice "analog only" base scanner that does Fire Tone Out Search & Decode. However, be aware that when the scanner is in FTO mode, you can't scan at the same time. It's one or the other. My BCT15X is surplus to my listening needs, so I have no issue with it sitting on my County Fire Page/Dispatch channel (155.520) 24x7. In effect a dedicated pager.

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/BCT15X
 
Last edited:

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
The charger base for your Minitor V is a good option. It'll charge the pager, amplify the audio and connect it to the external antenna. -might- be cheaper than a new scanner if you shop around.

As for the antenna at your home, you don't need much…
Stick with the RG-6 all the way. Running RG-8 isn't going to improve things, and RG-6 is cheap and easy to work with.

For a base antenna, you can make your own pretty easy, but purchasing one might be a good option:
A basic Marine VHF antenna will work fine for monitoring the 155MHz frequency. They are pretty durable and cheap.
Another option would be to purchase a purpose built base antenna, but they can get a bit pricey.
An option you might want to look at is this:
-simple quarter wave mobile antenna, less than $10: http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmoqw152-723.html
-base adapter for above antenna, less than $30: http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/laird-technologies-mbc-1649.html
Mount that up as high as you can. You'll need an adapter to covert the RG-6, which probably has an "F" connector on it to the "UHF" type connector on the antenna mount base: http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/lands-precision-2315-7903.html

Make sure you weather seal the outdoor coaxial cable connections well….


As for the vehicle install, it depends on what your comfort level is. The VHF whip I mentioned above will work well: http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmoqw152-723.html
The question will be how you want to attach it to the truck.
Ideal way is to do a permanent mount through the roof of your vehicle. It requires a hole, so that might not sit well with you. Getting a local radio shop to do the install might make sense since it requires a 3/4" hole saw and some knowledge to do right.

Other options include a magnetic mount, a bracket mount, etc. Magnetic mounts can work, but they create some risks:
-They -will- damage the paint in the long term.
-Getting the coaxial cable inside the vehicle can lead to damage. Routing the cable through doors or windows usually results in the cable getting pinched, damaged, then water getting inside and damaging the cable, or water leaking inside your vehicle.

The bracket mounts can work. Depending on the design of your vehicle, there are brackets that can be attached or use existing hardware to hold the antenna mount near the front fender. This allows the cable to be routed into the vehicle through existing wireways.

The antenna above will require an "NMO" type mount. The type you need will depend on how you install it.

Getting the antenna outside your basement will improve coverage, doesn't matter if you use a scanner or the Minitor V adapter base. Same with the vehicle. Getting the antenna outside really improves performance.
 

DR04

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Jo Daviess County, Illinois
This is incredibly helpful, thanks guys. Great to know there are fire tone decoder receivers, that I can use RG6, and the insight on the car.

When I get back from my trip I'll be mounting 2 antennas, one to the roof of the car and one to the roof of the house, both tuned for the frequency range I'll be using.

If I'm not careful all this research is going to restart all my scanner and radio interest, might even renew that amateur radio license!

Thanks again.
 

ofd8001

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
7,890
Location
Louisville, KY
Another thing to toss out is suggesting your fire department become a Broadcastify feed provider. That way you and the other members of your department can use smart phones to monitor traffic.
 

DR04

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Jo Daviess County, Illinois
The Conclusion

Another thing to toss out is suggesting your fire department become a Broadcastify feed provider. That way you and the other members of your department can use smart phones to monitor traffic.

Thanks for this. Looks like someone is already broadcasting our paging channel but intermixing it with the sheriff's traffic :/.

Also, wanted to thank everyone again on this thread for your insight and help. After much research and work I finally got this done.

I threw up a Diamond commercial VHF antenna outside optimized for 143-176 MHz just under my roofline. Grounded the mast and connected that with LMR-600 with Alpha/Delta lightning protectors to a grounding clamp shared with the house electric service ground. I used a 4 port Stridsberg multicoupler to send to two existing weather radios and connected to two radios:

Opted instead of scanners to pick up ICOM amateur transceivers, mobile (for me at my desk) (2300H) and handheld V80 (for my wife to monitor while I'm out) both with TX turned off. It seemed that the VHF sensitivity on those 2m ham transceivers was superior to other receivers, even high end ones. I programmed them up with channel names and numbers identical to the motorola radios in our rigs. And in case of emergency I could disconnect the multicoupler and hook up the 2300H directly to that antenna and be able to transmit @ 65w on 2m - turns out my old technician license is still active.

Long story short, I'm getting insanely good reception now. Pages and dispatch repeater traffic are coming through crystal clear. And I'm even picking up simplex fireground traffic (<5 watt radios on firefighters shoulders, no repeater) from 20+ miles away. I was shocked. Helps me get a heads up if box alarms or mutual aid are about to be called, a nice secondary perk. I recognize I'm lucky that all of my relevant 16+ fire channels are near the 2m ham band and analog, making this setup work nicely for me.

Anyway, thanks again, and hope someone found my setup entertaining.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
Thanks for this. Looks like someone is already broadcasting our paging channel but intermixing it with the sheriff's traffic :/.

Yeah, some scanner listeners will do that, but relying on it for what you want to do is sketchy at best. It depends on a hobbyist, an internet connection, power, if he feels like running the feed, and a bunch of other things you have zero control over.

Also, wanted to thank everyone again on this thread for your insight and help. After much research and work I finally got this done.

Glad to hear it's working well. I suspected that would fix the issue, but based on exact location, it's hard to tell. You'll never be disappointed with a good antenna system.


And in case of emergency I could disconnect the multicoupler and hook up the 2300H directly to that antenna and be able to transmit @ 65w on 2m - turns out my old technician license is still active.

I hear you, but do keep in mind that even in an emergency, nothing in the amateur radio rules permits you to transmit outside the amateur radio bands. Doing so without the proper licenses and with a non-type accepted radio puts your license at risk. Many choose to do it anyway thinking their amateur license covers it, but it doesn't.

Long story short, I'm getting insanely good reception now. Pages and dispatch repeater traffic are coming through crystal clear. And I'm even picking up simplex fireground traffic (<5 watt radios on firefighters shoulders, no repeater) from 20+ miles away.

That really does sound like it is working well. Your location probably has a lot to do with it, too. Picking up simplex from 20 miles away is a good sign. Glad to hear you did it right.
 

DR04

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Jo Daviess County, Illinois
I hear you, but do keep in mind that even in an emergency, nothing in the amateur radio rules permits you to transmit outside the amateur radio bands. Doing so without the proper licenses and with a non-type accepted radio puts your license at risk. Many choose to do it anyway thinking their amateur license covers it, but it doesn't.

Yes good point and let me clarify, especially if someone digs up this thread later and is in a similar boat. In an emergency I'd only be transmitting on the 2m amateur bands with my amateur license with the amateur radio. I have no desire to transmit on my fire frequencies with the 2300h unless I'm in the firetruck (with its radio) or have a Motorola FD radio with my bunker gear and EMT equipment on me. The amateur radio will only be listening on the dispatch & fire frequencies.

That being said the icom 2300h works really well for me monitoring the fire frequencies & dispatch. One critical thing for me is the ability to quickly hear the address and determine if I need to respond. And I like the options this radio provides while scanning between dispatch, pages, and general fire traffic all while prioritizing the paging channel.

And thanks again for all your help mmckenna.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
Yes good point and let me clarify, ….

OK, got it. Sounds like you are on the ball with this. I've run across some that don't understand the differences or amateurs that misinterpret the rules and think otherwise. My apologies for misunderstanding you.

That being said the icom 2300h works really well for me monitoring the fire frequencies & dispatch. One critical thing for me is the ability to quickly hear the address and determine if I need to respond. And I like the options this radio provides while scanning between dispatch, pages, and general fire traffic all while prioritizing the paging channel.

Yeah, scanners are great if you want to cover a lot of stuff with a single radio. Excellent for hobbyists. For what you are doing, a band specific radio (and antenna) will usually work better. The filtering on your Icom is specific to the VHF band, while the scanners usually have to be wide open, or nearly wide open. This can create some issues.
You'd probably even find that picking up a commercial radio would even provide better results, but programming gets to be a pain if you don't have the cables/software.
The other benefit is that mobile radios like this usually have much better audio, not only quality, but quantity. If you really want to hear that radio shine, plug in a big external speaker. The old surplus Motorola ones are great for that. All my personal radios (even a CB!) have a large Motorola speaker mounted under the dash on my truck. I can be cruising along at 70MPH with all the windows down and hear radio traffic loud and clear. I'm also running a VHF radio on my Polaris Ranger with the same speaker. At 30+ MPH on forest roads with full face helmet on, I can hear radio traffic easily.


And thanks again for all your help mmckenna.

Always happy to help however I can. Sounds like you have a great setup. Ever thought of adding one to your truck?
 

DR04

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
13
Location
Jo Daviess County, Illinois
OK, got it. Sounds like you are on the ball with this. I've run across some that don't understand the differences or amateurs that misinterpret the rules and think otherwise. My apologies for misunderstanding you.

Yeah, scanners are great if you want to cover a lot of stuff with a single radio. Excellent for hobbyists. For what you are doing, a band specific radio (and antenna) will usually work better. The filtering on your Icom is specific to the VHF band, while the scanners usually have to be wide open, or nearly wide open. This can create some issues.
You'd probably even find that picking up a commercial radio would even provide better results, but programming gets to be a pain if you don't have the cables/software.
The other benefit is that mobile radios like this usually have much better audio, not only quality, but quantity. If you really want to hear that radio shine, plug in a big external speaker. The old surplus Motorola ones are great for that. All my personal radios (even a CB!) have a large Motorola speaker mounted under the dash on my truck. I can be cruising along at 70MPH with all the windows down and hear radio traffic loud and clear. I'm also running a VHF radio on my Polaris Ranger with the same speaker. At 30+ MPH on forest roads with full face helmet on, I can hear radio traffic easily.

Always happy to help however I can. Sounds like you have a great setup. Ever thought of adding one to your truck?

More great advice. This will be next. The 2300h was actually supposed to be a test at my desk before going into the SUV. But it works so damn well I'll just use that at my desk. I'm going to wait, though. After I'm done with my EMT training there's a rumor you are given a FD radio (that transmits) where I'd respond in my personal car once I'm en route and responding. I'm going to let that vehicle equipment get sorted out first though before I get extra gear for the car.

You make some very solid points that I've now realized regarding single band and getting the gear for the band you're using. I'd highly recommend anyone reads your advice thoroughly if they're in a similar situation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top