northscan23
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I am little surprised that it seems that NYPD does not use encryption more extensively. Would you not think that due to post 9/11 terrorist concerns that they would want to do it more?
New York City Police encyrption
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KA2ZEY
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Most of the real sensitive stuff is communicated on Nextels which cannot be monitored by current scanners.
No, I can't see how terrorists would use those sort of communications in any way.
Too much is made about who is monitoring the police and how they would use that info to commit crime. It's more of a sales pitch used by the manufacturers of radio systems. "You don't want to be in charge when the BIG ONE happens and some news reporter asks why you didn't encrypt your radios"' is what they say. All professional police departments know how to conduct them selves on their radios. To encrypt is an insult to all honest cops and the public they protect.
kayn1n32008
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How would have encryption helped prevent 9/11? Those morons took over planes. Theyt had no need or desire to monitor NYPD. And explain how 9/11 justifies encrypting LE comms? Its like saying I want to make orange juice so let's got get a bunck of apples and make orange juice
How would have encryption helped prevent 9/11? Those morons took over planes. Theyt had no need or desire to monitor NYPD. And explain how 9/11 justifies encrypting LE comms? Its like saying I want to make orange juice so let's got get a bunck of apples and make orange juice
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Truth be told. There is a need to encrypt certain sensitive communications. Narc, Surv and yes IAD. These comms usually involve long term investigations and disclosure could jeopordize these operations.
Most routine comms do not need to be encrypted and any desire to do so has little to do with LE and more to do with not wanting to be monitored "at work".
I have heard the stories abot the burglars who were caught with scanners in their possesion. I ask, if scanners are so damaging, how did you catch them?
The sad truth is very rarely (I did not say never) is a crook caught in the act from a radio call. In fact think of it this way. My house is being burglared. My neighbor calls. It could take 5 to 10min from the call before a car arrives. The bad guys hear the call and leave right away. Gives them less time to gather loot.
Truth be told. There is a need to encrypt certain sensitive communications. Narc, Surv and yes IAD. These comms usually involve long term investigations and disclosure could jeopordize these operations.
Most routine comms do not need to be encrypted and any desire to do so has little to do with LE and more to do with not wanting to be monitored "at work".
I have heard the stories abot the burglars who were caught with scanners in their possesion. I ask, if scanners are so damaging, how did you catch them?
The sad truth is very rarely (I did not say never) is a crook caught in the act from a radio call. In fact think of it this way. My house is being burglared. My neighbor calls. It could take 5 to 10min from the call before a car arrives. The bad guys hear the call and leave right away. Gives them less time to gather loot.
We have some paraniod police officials in Pennsauken NJ. Little town next to Camden, gets a lot of run off crime from the city. They've been full P25 encryption for all patrols, everything for a couple years now. Seems excessive to me. Camden on ther other hand runs all police operations in the clear. Go figure.
MrAntiDigital
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I certainly have to agree with that. One of my favorite Police Depts that I listened to since around 1963 just went encrypt. Pretty sad that a hobby I had for so many years was just taken away. I did nothing wrong.
coolrich55
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NYPD does have some frequencies encrypted according to the database, including IAD.
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I have seen a greater desire to encrypt more with small to medium departments then I do with larger ones. Near me a small department went full time scrambled, but under pressure from surrounding departments switched to scrambled on demand. Since it is scrambled and not encrypted you can kind of make out what they are saying and it sounds like they placing their lunch orders.
Now one time they were working a fatal accident and they gave the drivers name in the clear over the air. In my opinion that was totally wrong. That should never have gone over the air in the clear. In a small town like that too many people might have know the driver. What a horrible way to hear about an unfortunate death.
Sorry, but I take this as proof that a lot of these small towns are more afraid of the public hearing how incompetent they are then about protecting truely confidential communications.
Big cities like New York and Camden are too busy fighting real crime to worry about such trivial matters.
I have seen a greater desire to encrypt more with small to medium departments then I do with larger ones. Near me a small department went full time scrambled, but under pressure from surrounding departments switched to scrambled on demand. Since it is scrambled and not encrypted you can kind of make out what they are saying and it sounds like they placing their lunch orders.
Now one time they were working a fatal accident and they gave the drivers name in the clear over the air. In my opinion that was totally wrong. That should never have gone over the air in the clear. In a small town like that too many people might have know the driver. What a horrible way to hear about an unfortunate death.
Sorry, but I take this as proof that a lot of these small towns are more afraid of the public hearing how incompetent they are then about protecting truely confidential communications.
Big cities like New York and Camden are too busy fighting real crime to worry about such trivial matters.
One of the Local Depts by me..its a small village went to Motorturbo a while ago makes it difficult for the neighboring agencies to monitor..Usually the serious calls go out through the 911 channel.
It all comes down to this: Encryption is the way incompetent police management covers their butts. It also supports Motorola and Tyco Industries. And anyone who asks "why?" is branded as un-American and a terrorism sympathizer. Just another chip off the old Liberty and Freedom rock. All those who lost their lives on 9/11 are turning over in their graves!
ocP25bandit
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This is one of the best opinions I have ever seen on the use of encryption... Thank you for the great laugh...
15plus1
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I Agree !!!!!
ocP25bandit
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so..... If a police department uses encryption, their police management is incompetent? Seriously, please elaborate. I need some more laughs and reading enjoyment. This is getting good and I am sure the lock on this thread is coming soon!
radioman2001
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Considering that you have only 9 posts I suspect you really don't have any idea what the radio world is all about. Encryption denies both the criminal and public alike from information that is generated by their employees. Yes the Police work for the public, not the other way around. It is much easier to hide wrong doing and incompetence with encryption, the agency can just say that such and such never happened, and it would take a lawsuit to obtain said information if the agency decided to fight the release of said information on the belief that it could hurt that agency. Radio traffic in the clear makes the originator of that traffic more responsible to ensure that what is being said over the radio is proper and right. If the traffic is so sensitive that it MAY impede and investigation then use a land line!!
ocP25bandit
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You can't be serious... You really think that encryption is some type of conspiracy against scanner enthusiast and the general public? If you do, its time to thinking about changing your hobby.
and
The attitude of the "Police work for the public, not the the other way around" is just funny when you speak of radio communications. You are correct, POLICE DO WORK FOR THE PUBLIC, but how are they not working for you when you can not hear their radio traffic? If you call the police, they show up, right? If they don't show up, then you can you can complain. The issue isn't that you could hear them being dispatched to your call for them, its that they didn't show up. If you think that there was some type of wrong doing, file a complaint with your police department. I believe the radio communications, encrypted or not are covered under the open public information act.
Where I am some of the best police departments in the state use full time encryption... To even think that they are full time encrypted to hide their incompetent is just a flat out laughable comment!
And if me having 9 post on radioreference dictaes my knowledge about the radio world, maybe you should reconsider your thoughts processes because your whole post is just a useless rant!
radioman2001
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Actually it seems that you are the one ranting, the fact that all of the agencies in your area use full time encryption to me is that you are comfortable with not knowing what you agencies do with their time. So be it for you. I have nearly 40 years in Public Safety radio, a former member of Military Police and once a Medic for NYC 911. I never saw where encryption was a help in communications, IF that person originating the traffic didn't have the presence of mind to think before talking. The fact that encryption makes for incompetence, or hides the facts of a situation has been shown in numerous cases across this country. I will bring just one incidence that went public nationwide, the Rodney King incident. It showed how indifferent a public servant can be and the fact that encryption hid his stupidity is shown.
I suspect that you MAY be a member of law enforcement, I have seen this attitude before and have had nose to nose knock down drag out arguments about encryption with these so called public servants. I stand by my beliefs and the fact that NYPD doesn't use it shows that the "Best Police Department in the World " can operate day to day with out it.
I suspect that you MAY be a member of law enforcement, I have seen this attitude before and have had nose to nose knock down drag out arguments about encryption with these so called public servants. I stand by my beliefs and the fact that NYPD doesn't use it shows that the "Best Police Department in the World " can operate day to day with out it.
Well, to get back to the topic, it's very telling that NYPD hasn't succumbed to the dark forces of encryption. Think what you like about the top brass, they seam to be able to see a little more clearly about what is important for a police force to focus on. Maybe the costs of running things like manpower over shadows the desire to buy the most expensive type radios that still are just used primarily for voice comms.
We can rant endlessly about the use of encryption, but since the terrorists have already changed the way our country is run [Patriot Act] we can see the hand writing on our scanners' screen: ENC
We can rant endlessly about the use of encryption, but since the terrorists have already changed the way our country is run [Patriot Act] we can see the hand writing on our scanners' screen: ENC
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radioman2001
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Agree totally NYPD is the Best of the Best, and if they see no need for ENC except for sensitive issues it shows a higher level of professionalism and thought process in policing.
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