Volunteer Fire Station Siren

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LCCDirect

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There was a similar thread about the use of sirens in general from a few years back but my question doesn’t pertain to the overall use of the siren but the length of it. I live 600 ft from the siren so I will admit I’d be happy for it to go away entirely but for the safety of the community I can understand it’s value. My issue is that it goes off 24/7 (there is no quiet time) and it does 13 cycles! Then, if they need to re-tone for lack of response, it does another 13! Now during Chimney Fire season, or as some of you like to call it, winter, it is not unusual for the alarm to go off at 2am 26 times in a row! My 2 dogs howl the entire time, the neighbors dogs are all howling and my kids are 100% awake.

Do your station sirens still go off and if they do how many times does it cycle for one call? I would like to write a letter to the department or start a petition but I would also like to have some sort of data to bring to the table about what other volunteer departments do. OR if you have alternate suggestions I am all ears.

Thank you in advance!
 

Markscan

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With all of the new communication technology available, there should be some quiet time. We stop the horn after 8pm. If you hear it after that time, it’s a working fire.

I’d advise keeping the horn, but with some changes. Our horn is air powered, and when all else fails, the horn just works.


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ak716

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In my town, its tone activated, and only goes off for structure fires, regardless of the time of day. For a structure fire, the siren goes 8 times. Daily, it goes at the 1800 hrs (ish) daily radio test once. I know a surrounding towns of mine, it goes once for an EMS call, 3 times for a MVA, 4 times for a fire alarm, and 8 times for a structure fire. Once at noon and once at 1800hrs (ish) during their daily test. No idea about the quiet time for them though. I think it goes all the time, seeing how I hear it late at night faintly in the distance.

Being a Firefighter myself, its gotten my attention, and has alerted me to find my pager that wasn't on my hip or look at my phone a few times, so I still find it beneficial. But yet again, mine only goes off for structure fires.
 

Quickcall

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With all of the new communication technology available, there should be some quiet time. We stop the horn after 8pm. If you hear it after that time, it’s a working fire.

I’d advise keeping the horn, but with some changes. Our horn is air powered, and when all else fails, the horn just works.


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I would love to hear this horn if you have a video available.
 

georged4997

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After 25 years in a city fire dept with a population of 160,000at the time. If we had a siren go off every time we went out we would have a riot on our hands. Also I spent a total of 6 years between two volunteer depts.
When I retired I moved up state to a small town pop 2900. The siren is right up the street from me.
its a pain in the you know what. This is almost 2018 not 1940s. Some of the guys I know from the volunteer dept say they have a company where their cell phones and home phones get rung when a call comes in. This is besides a radio in their cars. pagers. etc. when we had storm sandy a few years ago, the siren never went off to notify the town. Theres new technology now. They have to stop living in the past. Don't get me wrong, I respect the volunteers and know a great number of them.
 

Quickcall

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I do enjoy a good firehouse siren/horn. Love that sound. However I do think the days of the horn/siren being a relevant part of the fire service has ended with the increase in technology over the years. Yes, it can make a good backup for XYZ reason but that's just devils advocate. I do think they can still be used for public warning of some sort for weather, civil, and other emergencies if you needed the publics attention. But otherwise id just says its more fire department "tradition" to keep using them.
 

62Truck

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My dept disabled their years ago due to complaints from neighbors. There are some neighboring depts that still have theirs but from what I can tell they only cycle once. The sirens and horns were great before pagers, and radios were big. Now days everyone has a pager, and we even get the calls sent to our phones via text, and a app. The text, and the app isn't always reliable though.
 

MrAntiDigital

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Those who support the need for these loud sirens must also understand.

Firefighters no longer ride the back step.

Fire trucks have automatic transmissions and closed cabs with air conditioning.

Firefighters no longer wear 3/4 rubber boats to fight fires, but protective bunker gear equipment instead.

Firefighters are no longer nicknamed "Smoke Eaters" by the amount of smoke they can take without using an air pack.

Most firefighters respond to medical emergencies these days when they didn't back in the day.

There is no need to broadcast to every citizen in the town that their local fire dept is responding to a call. There is absolutely NO NEED to use those sirens today. In addition, let some part need replacement and try finding parts for them.

In one of the towns near me that is exactly what happened. For about two months there was NO SIREN. Yet the emergency calls were still covered. BUT as prayers were answered, a used part was located and they are back to their good old reliable station siren again. I just don't understand how it was done for those two months without it.

To those of you who go out there to do the job, "I salute you". But I'm sure there's plenty out there that do that but just don't need that antique station siren to do it. A SPECIAL THANK YOU TO THEM....
 

crazyboy

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Having a siren as an additional alerting means counts towards to fire company’s ISO score.


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Markscan

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Many times I was outside cutting the grass and didn’t hear the pager, but I always heard the horn.


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tglendye

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Many times I was outside cutting the grass and didn’t hear the pager, but I always heard the horn.


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Yes... but pagers have vibrate modes on them, now. That being said, I believe the siren issue is different based on locality and individual department.
 

Jay911

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There is no need to broadcast to every citizen in the town that their local fire dept is responding to a call.

I'll let the IAFF know that you have said our fire trucks and ambulances' emergency lights are no longer necessary, since we don't need to let citizens know we're responding. That will save a lot of money in purchasing costs, at least until somebody's house burns down because nobody could get thru traffic due to the citizens not knowing we were responding to a call.

There is absolutely NO NEED to use those sirens today. In addition, let some part need replacement and try finding parts for them.

I picked only one vendor and found multiple pages of links to modern equipment that is designed to work not only as sirens, but wide-area notification systems. In fact, a town near me recently (~3 years ago) installed a multi-unit system of this very design as part of the 'lessons learned' after a flood inundated the community the year before. Mass notification isn't just for getting the firefighters to respond - it's to alert the citizens of a flood, wildfire, tornado, or when the next crackpot with a nuclear trigger decides to show the world who's boss.

I lived for 17 years almost literally underneath a fire station siren (125ft from my bedroom window to the pole), for what it's worth.
 

MrAntiDigital

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Crazyboy, you might be correct but most people familiar with ISO ratings know that water supply is the most important. I'd be interested in how much of a difference would it be for the average home owners insurance with or without a station siren. Where these have been done away with did the individual homeowner see a large increase in their policy cost ? how about a place of business ? Not the places I know of that did away with it.

Jay911, relax there guy. We're not talking the world is coming to an end. I just don't know where you got the thing about me saying fire trucks and ambulances don't need sirens. Sirens on those vehicles are needed to clear traffic. If the nuclear trigger decides to be pushed, where do we go and what do we do. No matter what, who's going to be around to need that siren anyway.

I'm sorry that you guys got so ticked off about it. I had read this and I just wanted to tell my side of the story. How a place can function just fine without it for AT LEAST two months. When I wrote that, two months was really being very conservative.

Jay911, I'm sure the dept that couldn't find a part for that siren wishes I could have told them about you last year or so. You could have given them the information they needed to know.

Well got to go now. Heading out to get some great chow with a couple of good buddies. See ya.
 

mule1075

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Crazyboy, you might be correct but most people familiar with ISO ratings know that water supply is the most important. I'd be interested in how much of a difference would it be for the average home owners insurance with or without a station siren. Where these have been done away with did the individual homeowner see a large increase in their policy cost ? how about a place of business ? Not the places I know of that did away with it.

Jay911, relax there guy. We're not talking the world is coming to an end. I just don't know where you got the thing about me saying fire trucks and ambulances don't need sirens. Sirens on those vehicles are needed to clear traffic. If the nuclear trigger decides to be pushed, where do we go and what do we do. No matter what, who's going to be around to need that siren anyway.

I'm sorry that you guys got so ticked off about it. I had read this and I just wanted to tell my side of the story. How a place can function just fine without it for AT LEAST two months. When I wrote that, two months was really being very conservative.

Jay911, I'm sure the dept that couldn't find a part for that siren wishes I could have told them about you last year or so. You could have given them the information they needed to know.

Well got to go now. Heading out to get some great chow with a couple of good buddies. See ya.
Every other year it seems this topic comes up and the results are the same. The argument is useless as different areas have different needs.[emoji25]

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DaveNF2G

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Regarding the list of what firefighters don't do any more - that is probably true in your area. It is also true on many other places. But people tend to forget that the rest of the world, or the country, or even their own state is not just like their own neighborhood.

There are still many places where a siren is viable as at least a secondary alerting mechanism. There might even be volunteer departments that [gasp!] don't have pagers.
 

DJ11DLN

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Ours has been gone for years. It was constantly breaking down and having to be removed from the tower for repair. This was due to the discontinuance of a weekly single-cycle test run. Sometimes it wouldn't be activated for weeks or months at a time -- after about 1980, it was only used for major incidents -- and things would simply stick. No 3-phase power was available and the old single-phase motor didn't always have enough starting torque to break the resistance (rust) and get it going. Unfortunately it also did not have modern thermal protection. Several weekly test schemes were proposed but it was always going to bother somebody. Rather than saying, "It is gonna go off at noon every Saturday and make a single cycle, deal with it," the powers-that-were quit the test cycle and the repair costs began to mount. It was never on a tone-out activation, if it was needed, somebody had to push the button.

It would not be relevant today for fire/EMS/other runs, but if we still had it, I would certainly like to see it tested weekly and connected to the county's tornado/disaster siren network. In that regard, I think a fire whistle (siren) or horn can indeed make a positive contribution.

But if you have to rely on such to notify your Firefighters of every incident...you are in trouble.
 

IAmSixNine

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Same people who complain about ugly cell towers, NOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, then complain when they have lousy cell service.
Or the ones in California years ago fighting to prevent high tension power lines from going through their area, oh same area also had brown outs during the heat of the summer.
Yup.. cant please everybody.
 

boxcom

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One thing to keep in mind, for those who get the alerts on their phones via e-dispatches or another company, you are at the mercy of the dispatcher's paging system working. A system like e-dispatches starts recording after the tones drop and record the transmission. If for some reason, the paging system fails, so too will the e-dispatch. Also, there is a limited amount of recording time (I believe 35 seconds). I've heard my department's tones drop and the dispatcher does not begin to talk until 15-20 seconds later (for whatever reason). At times, you do not know what the call is, or where it is, if you rely on your telephone receiving it. Also of note, There is a delay of transmission in reaching the cell phones. The system does not start to call phones the second the dispatcher finishes. You have to wait until the 35 second record time is complete. Then it will call out to everyone's phones. Many times, I have not received the e-dispatch until a full 2 minutes after initial dispatch. If you are in a dead area for cell coverage, you may not even get the message. It will go to your voicemail. In a profession where seconds count and fire doubles its size every minute, too much time is lost relying on getting your calls from your phone. Most of the time, I'm already out of my house, in my car, and a few blocks from my home by the time I get a notification on my phone.

Another thought to consider is terrain. If you live in a hilly or mountainous region, the radio signals may not make your pager and activate it. In addition, you may have numerous FD & EMS dispatched on the same frequency, and do not have a common dispatch center. In other words, each town may dispatch their own FD & EMS. Happened a lot in South Bergen County where Lyndhurst, Rutherford, East Rutherford, Wallington, Carlstadt, Wood-Ridge, Moonachie, Hasbrouck Heights and South Hackensack dispatched and operated on one frequency. There have been numerous times where my pager would not activate because another town was transmitting an emergency call, or a test, or a message....especially the towns who are higher up in altitude. It happens. So having a secondary means of alerting FD & EMS,separate from radio transmissions and peripherals relying on the radio transmission to occur, is vital to ensure that you are reaching as many members as possible. Before my town discontinued use of our horns, I made a ton of calls because I didn't have my pager with me, but heard the horns sounding.

Now regarding quiet time, Bogota NJ had an issue about 6-8 years ago where residents complained about the use of the horns during the overnight hours. The town stopped the use of the horns during the overnight hours for a few months. The fire chief then tracked the manpower responding to alarms during the overnight hours. He appeared in front of the mayor and council and showed the manpower responses during the overnight hours both before the horns were not used during the overnight and while the horns were quieted. The results were a dramatic drop in manpower responding during the muted use of the horns. Thus, the town decided to use the horns 24/7. Could they reduce the number of cycles? Maybe, maybe not. 8 cycles may normally mean EMS Call and 6 may mean Fire call. If you do 4 cycles, could it mean something else?

It is possible that the sirens for your town are activated by pager tones. Personally, I am against that. I believe it should be transmitted manually and separate from a paging system. If that paging system fails, nothing is going to work. Just some observations for consideration.
 
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