Monroe County EMS .295 VHF Patch To Go Down.

[fdny448]

An email was sent to EMS agencies, the highlights:

"With EMS closing out our second year on the County trunked radio system it is time to transition to the next phase of the Monroe County Trunked Radio Project. This is a step that we have indicated in a number of meetings this past year, and now that the logistics are worked out, we are able to move forward. On Thursday, December 28 at 09:00 hours Monroe County will separate inbound radio traffic on .295 from the trunked link, which will prevent the EMS dispatcher from hearing transmissions made from the field on conventional .295."

"Monroe County will maintain outbound voice traffic and tones on .295, which will remain in service for station and pager use. There should be no impact to pagers which will still activate as they do today."

 

[Ed-N2QBZ]

As of 1/17/18 there is no outbound traffic on 155.295 including paging tones. At least not in East Rochester.

 

[k2hz]

I am hearing paging and the TG1077 audio on 155.295 this morning.

 

[billyfromhill]

As of 1/17/18 there is no outbound traffic on 155.295 including paging tones. At least not in East Rochester.

East Rochester Ambulance has been run by Rural-Metro/AMR for years. They do not have the new radios. With this change they are now operating on the AMR repeater and not on 155.295/TG1077.

Paging tones are no longer being patched. You will only hear the QCII tones on the analog side.

 

[Ed-N2QBZ]

East Rochester Ambulance has been run by Rural-Metro/AMR for years. They do not have the new radios. With this change they are now operating on the AMR repeater and not on 155.295/TG1077.

Paging tones are no longer being patched. You will only hear the QCII tones on the analog side.

I know, I work for RM/AMR and pick up my OT whenever there's an opening in ER. But the house alerting system they put in could be much better than it is. The speakers are not in all parts of the building. I like being able to have a Minitor pager on me so I don't miss a call.

I was under the impression that they completely did away with paging on 295.

If they are still dropping tones on 295 without a message, it would help, the voice messages were all that helpful anyway since they didn't repeat the dispatch info.

 

[billyfromhill]

I know, I work for RM/AMR and pick up my OT whenever there's an opening in ER. But the house alerting system they put in could be much better than it is. The speakers are not in all parts of the building. I like being able to have a Minitor pager on me so I don't miss a call.

I was under the impression that they completely did away with paging on 295.

If they are still dropping tones on 295 without a message, it would help, the voice messages were all that helpful anyway since they didn't repeat the dispatch info.

They did away with East Rochester paging/voicing on 155.295, which means there's zero interop now. For all the other county agencies it's business as usual.

155.295 still has the voice dispatch after the QCII tones. There's also been the Motorola 1000 Hz alert tone added after the QCII tones like Fire 5 paging. The voice dispatch and the alert tone can be heard on TG1077 on the new radios, but not the QCII tones.

155.295 also has all the TG1077 traffic patched, meaning you can hear all the units operating like you always were able to.

If you listen to 155.295 with a scanner or Minitor literally the only thing that has changed is that there now is the alert tone before the voice dispatch and ER is off the frequency.

I'd wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes back eventually. Livingston and Wayne units were on 155.295 all the time when mutual-aiding into Monroe and just about every Monroe agency still has an analog base station. Monroe county gave out portables on the new system before turning off the patch so all the bases could still talk to the dispatcher but that's only a stopgap solution.

This would also be the perfect time to separate county EMS dispatch and EMS operations into two separate TGs. Patch 155.295 to a different TG in the system so nobody has to change their base alerting systems. The downside is that people with analog scanners would only hear the calls going out and none of the units.

 

[k2hz]

I'd wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes back eventually. Livingston and Wayne units were on 155.295 all the time when mutual-aiding into Monroe and just about every Monroe agency still has an analog base station. Monroe county gave out portables on the new system before turning off the patch so all the bases could still talk to the dispatcher but that's only a stopgap solution.

I have been seeing hits in my UT log of activity on TG1437, the 175 patch, since the 295 patch was shut down. I have not listened to see what the activity is. It appears this could be the alternative to 295 for interop to keep 295 just for dispatch and response use, especially since there are now separate EMS OPS TGs on the system.

I don't see a need for continued use of 295 for interop since any VHF equipped ambulance should have 175 whereas 295 was a unique Monroe County frequency. It would make sense to use the standard NYMED175 PL rather than the Monroe DPL for true interop capability.

 

[billyfromhill]

I have been seeing hits in my UT log of activity on TG1437, the 175 patch, since the 295 patch was shut down. I have not listened to see what the activity is. It appears this could be the alternative to 295 for interop to keep 295 just for dispatch and response use, especially since there are now separate EMS OPS TGs on the system.

I don't see a need for continued use of 295 for interop since any VHF equipped ambulance should have 175 whereas 295 was a unique Monroe County frequency. It would make sense to use the standard NYMED175 PL rather than the Monroe DPL for true interop capability.

NYMED295 has always been a thing. 155.340 is also patched to the new system.

I've also heard rumors that a patched TG from Monroe to Livingston is/was a thing. Both systems are P25 Ph. II but in different bands.

Back when I observed at Monroe ECD before the new system the only three channels they had on the primary tab of their Motorola consoles was EMS 295, MCI 175, and OPS 280 (155.280). To my knowledge, OPS 280 had never been used for anything ever and it's not currently patched to the new system.

 

[DaveNF2G]

OPS280 would be useless if RGH security is still using it.

 

[INDY72]

OPS280 would be useless if RGH security is still using it.

UNLESS RGH Security uses an different tone than the State OPS280 set up.. But knowing how messed up things in Monroe County have been politically,... You would have better success swimming upstream in the Genesee River up both sets of waterfalls there in Rochester.

 

[Ed-N2QBZ]

They did away with East Rochester paging/voicing on 155.295, which means there's zero interop now.

Thanks for the confirmation Bill. I haven't been able top pick up any OT in ER since the change, but will be there in a week so if the county isn't paging ER anymore, there's no sense monitoring 295 or getting a Minitor.

 

[DaveNF2G]

UNLESS RGH Security uses an different tone than the State OPS280 set up.. But knowing how messed up things in Monroe County have been politically,... You would have better success swimming upstream in the Genesee River up both sets of waterfalls there in Rochester.

Different tones don't stop interference. They only stop co-channel users from monitoring each other.

RGH security is/was vastly overpowered for the coverage area it needed. RGH is a couple of blocks of buildings. The security signal was strong all over the county. It even caused reception problems on .295 for Irondequoit Volunteer Ambulance when they first started up.

Even if the output power was greatly reduced, OPS280 would be fully occupied within reception range of RGH. The security people tended to transmit quite a lot when I was in the area.

 

[billyfromhill]

So they're UHF and VHF then?

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=7161

 

[DaveNF2G]

What I said originally was:

OPS280 would be useless if RGH security is still using it.

Up until your query to the RRDB, nobody addressed the second part of my comment.

According to the RRDB, RGH security is not still using 155.280 MHz.

 

[MonroeCny]

Email from 1/16

As everyone knows the County turned off inbound .295 VHF on December 28, 2017.

While we did not run into any issues in the field, the EMS dispatcher at the 911 center had some concerns. We turned the inbound back on while we worked through a solution. In addressing those concerns the EMS console had a new feature enabled that mitigated the issues. On January 03, 2018 testing of the new program was completed successfully.

We are now ready to once again turn off inbound .295.

When: January 17, 2018
Time: Noon

This change will result in the following:
Agencies will not hear their tones on their trunked radios, however, a single alert tone will be used prior to voicing the call.
AMR - East Rochester calls will be sent form the EMS dispatcher to AMR via CAD to CAD. AMR dispatchers will then dispatch the ER job, AMR crews will no longer be talking on VHF .295. This will begin at 08:00 on Jan. 17.

It is important to remember that outbound .295 will remain operational and tones will still go out as they do today on the VHF side.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I am curious to know how they can meet the regulatory requirement to monitor before transmitting. There are other users on the channel. Did they get a waiver from the FCC?

 

[billyfromhill]

I am curious to know how they can meet the regulatory requirement to monitor before transmitting. There are other users on the channel. Did they get a waiver from the FCC?

Not sure. I don't think they routinely monitor. That being said, I've never heard any other users on 155.295 with both a Minitor and a scanner with no PL ability so I don't think it's interfering with anybody else.

I think what happened was that when the patch was turned off, the dispatchers no longer had the QCII tone feedback so they didn't know when to start talking.

They're using the Harris Symphony consoles but the dispatcher still is not natively digital. When you listen to the analog side the dispatcher does not sound digital at all while it's very obvious the units are. The dispatcher does not really sound any different then they always have.

I have noticed that the alert tone has occasionally gone out over the QCII tones so maybe they don't have the tone feedback issue completely figured out yet.