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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2016, 1:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KE4ZNR View Post
Welcome to RR.com!
Knowing which exact scanner you are using to listen to VIPER will help us help you further but I can safely assume it is a scanner with the entire US/Canada database such as a HomePatrol scanner or a Radio Shack/Whistler scanner.
I would look at either avoiding or deleting sites you have no chance of monitoring on a daily basis. Once you narrow down your scanner to just the VIPER sites in your local area you should see improved performance. In the VIPER database entry you can see the local sites for your county by looking in the "County" Column.
As a general rule of thumb VIPER Talkgroups come in couple of flavors:
1) Statewide Access Talkgroups....these talkgroups have (of course) statewide access and can show up on any VIPER site at any time...examples are the Statewide Event Talkgroups Alpha-Hotel.
2) Local Access talkgroups.....these talkgroups are limited to the geographic area in which they will be used. Example is the Durham County Law Talkgroup. It works in Durham County and in one neighboring county each direction. The Durham County Law Talkgroup will not work in Guilford County as there would be no need for Durham Comms in that area.
Marshall KE4ZNR
I always assumed that if a radio affiliated on a site on any given TG, that TG is delivered to that site. If a Durham officer drove to Greensboro with his radio on the Durham law TG, as the radio affiliated with sites along the way, each site would broadcast that TG. Is that not the case for the local TGs?

I know that dispatch for agencies are simulcast in adjacent counties too. TAC's aren't usually though (unless a radio on the TAC affiliates).

Last edited by GamecockSJ; 01-17-2016 at 1:27 AM..
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2016, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GamecockSJ View Post
I always assumed that if a radio affiliated on a site on any given TG, that TG is delivered to that site. If a Durham officer drove to Greensboro with his radio on the Durham law TG, as the radio affiliated with sites along the way, each site would broadcast that TG. Is that not the case for the local TGs?

I know that dispatch for agencies are simulcast in adjacent counties too. TAC's aren't usually though (unless a radio on the TAC affiliates).
That is indeed the case IF the radio in question has roaming (I can't remember what the exact term is) capabilities. Basically if the radio that is traveling has been programmed to do it that's the way it works. At least that's the way it used to be.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2016, 11:53 AM
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The roaming feature is standard on any radio with the SmartZone feature set. The roaming is controlled on the back-end of the system in the zone controller. Talkgroups are controlled on a site by site basis. If the channel in question has a legit need to be broadcast across a site then it's enabled. That's how it's done for VIPER, the UASI P25 system, SC Palmetto 800, VA STARS, etc. This keeps you from having to pay for 28 channels at every site in the system. If you've ever watched Trunk88 on the old Type II systems you'll occasionally see "RID rejected" where the radio roams over to a site and is denied. The radio is oblivious and roams wherever it can and it's up to the system to manage that.

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Originally Posted by Drafin View Post
That is indeed the case IF the radio in question has roaming (I can't remember what the exact term is) capabilities. Basically if the radio that is traveling has been programmed to do it that's the way it works. At least that's the way it used to be.

Draf
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpetman View Post
The roaming feature is standard on any radio with the SmartZone feature set. The roaming is controlled on the back-end of the system in the zone controller. Talkgroups are controlled on a site by site basis. If the channel in question has a legit need to be broadcast across a site then it's enabled. That's how it's done for VIPER, the UASI P25 system, SC Palmetto 800, VA STARS, etc. This keeps you from having to pay for 28 channels at every site in the system. If you've ever watched Trunk88 on the old Type II systems you'll occasionally see "RID rejected" where the radio roams over to a site and is
denied. The radio is oblivious and roams wherever it can and it's up to the system to manage that.
Ahhh I thought it was on the radio end. I digress. Apologies for adding confusion.

Thanks trumpetman for the clarification and information.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2016, 8:43 PM
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Being new to this whole P25 phase 1 stuff, i have a few questions. For instance i recently confirmed that the Highway Patrol in Ashe county is now using the VIPER 800 mhz phase 1 system here. My question is does that signal come to my receiver from a local tower or does it come from Newton as the Low band does? The reason i ask this is i'm considering a Uniden Hp1 or 2. And trying to decide whether i will need a outdoor antenna or not. Currently i run a RS 2021 with a outdoor discone. My local sheriff, fire and ems sound muffled or over modulated in their transmissions. But without the outdoor antenna i cannot receive Newton dispatch on low band. But if i just use the back of set antenna my local frequencies sound crystal clear. I can even adjust the squelch to 10 and they still come through....

To sum it up, i'm mainly concerned as to whether i would need a outdoor antenna to hear the HP on VIPER of would the stock antenna do the job?
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Old 01-17-2016, 8:52 PM
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Newton is the communications but both the low band and VIPER are wireline controlled. Ashe County doesn't get their lowband signal from a tower at Newton, it's carried over a microwave link to a local tower and broadcast over that local area. Lowband does not do well on small portable antennas due to the long wavelength (hence why you see 6 ft antennas on DOT & SHP vehicles). 800 MHz systems are designed more for close range communications and use a shorter wavelength so a shorter antenna is more effective. A single low band base station may cover several counties while an 800 MHz system may need 2 or 3 sites in the mountains to get coverage for a county.

To answer your question, a back of set antenna should do you just fine. Program in your local VIPER tower to listen to NCSHP, don't worry about low band as you'll only hear the dispatch side anyways, and if you're already hearing Ashe public safety with an indoor antenna you should continue to be fine.
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Old 01-17-2016, 8:59 PM
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Thanks, for clarifying that for me in easy to understand terms....Like i said i'm new to all this, i'm use to just programming in a frequency and going with it..
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2016, 8:11 AM
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Fay City Fire doing radio checks on Fay Viper Tg#13555 this AM
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2016, 11:41 AM
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Default Meadows Mountain Asheville dual use

Today I decided to enter the Meadows Mountain V.I.P.E.R. site in my BCD 536 as both a Phase 1 system, and also as a Phase 2 system. Within 15 minutes of 12:15 today I had received nine transmissions from i.d. 52200, and 2 transmissions from i.d. 51583 on the Phase 2 system. Now I am NOT POSTING this in an attempt to wave a banner saying "VIPER is phase 2". That would be silly, and I'm not doing that. I am trying to point to the fact that those transmissions did occur.
I looked at the emissions designator for Meadows Mountain. 8K30F1W (phase 1) exists, as well as 9K80D7W (phase 2). I have searched the thread here for several terms that might have discussed this before, and found none.
I received different i.d's on the Phase 1 system, and neither crossed from one system into another. If I have somehow missed this discussion earlier, I apologize, but I did find this interesting. Thank you for your time...
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2016, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFive View Post
Now I am NOT POSTING this in an attempt to wave a banner saying "VIPER is phase 2". That would be silly, and I'm not doing that. I am trying to point to the fact that those transmissions did occur.
The transmissions may have occured however they were not Phase II TDMA Talkgroups. If they were Phase II TDMA talkgroups (which they couldn't because there is no VIPER Phase 2 TDMA equipment on the air) you would have seen "PT0" or "PT1" for whichever time slot was being received.
Just because you selected an errant system type does not magically transform VIPER from a Phase 1 FDMA system (which it is) to a Phase 2 TDMA system (which it is not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFive View Post
I looked at the emissions designator for Meadows Mountain. 8K30F1W (phase 1) exists, as well as 9K80D7W (phase 2).
Been discussed here a few times over. Having VIPER sites listed as both Phase 1 & Phase 2 saves VIPER folks from doing additional paperwork later on.

To sum up again:
---VIPER is NOT Phase II TDMA nor are there any Phase II TDMA VIPER sites on the air.
---VIPER is Phase 1 FDMA and will be for the foreseeable future.
---Any Phase II TDMA Emission Designators in the FCC database are just time saving administrative measures.

Hopefully this clears this up once and for all....or until the next person asks about it.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2016, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KE4ZNR View Post

Just because you selected an errant system type does not magically transform VIPER from a Phase 1 FDMA system (which it is) to a Phase 2 TDMA system (which it is not).

You mean ticking the phase 2 capable box on my APX codeplug won't magically enable the $13k option on the GTRs and rewrite firmware to make the Quantars capable? Man I thought I had Moto fooled.
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2016, 1:17 PM
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For several days now their has been testing of signals from Viper and Fay P25 off unk Tg#13570 off fay system,this is going on in different parts of the city to compare viper signals to fay p25 signals???
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:21 PM
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Talk about road condition and keeping people off the roads unk tg#(51608) off Slocomb tw???
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Old 01-22-2016, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFive View Post
Today I decided to enter the Meadows Mountain V.I.P.E.R. site in my BCD 536 as both a Phase 1 system, and also as a Phase 2 system. Within 15 minutes of 12:15 today I had received nine transmissions from i.d. 52200, and 2 transmissions from i.d. 51583 on the Phase 2 system. Now I am NOT POSTING this in an attempt to wave a banner saying "VIPER is phase 2". That would be silly, and I'm not doing that. I am trying to point to the fact that those transmissions did occur.
I looked at the emissions designator for Meadows Mountain. 8K30F1W (phase 1) exists, as well as 9K80D7W (phase 2). I have searched the thread here for several terms that might have discussed this before, and found none.
I received different i.d's on the Phase 1 system, and neither crossed from one system into another. If I have somehow missed this discussion earlier, I apologize, but I did find this interesting. Thank you for your time...
I would take what KE4ZNR, and Trumpetman have to say to the bank.
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Old 01-24-2016, 2:59 PM
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Default Good Antennas

I haven't seen a discussion for a while about antenna technology so I am curious about what people are using for their base stations and what is considered best. I have Radio Shack discone antennas in my attic but the performance on the high frequencies is a bit suspect. And it seems, signal strength varies from day to day. It seems I get equal performance from a mobile unit with a rubber duck antenna sitting next to the base stations. I live at 35.817361 x -78.813107. Have you any thoughts, suggestions, examples, etc.? I really want to improve performance. I do have over 50ft of coax. Thanks.
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2016, 8:32 PM
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Anybody identified these two?

TGID #: 52637 - "UNC 2" @ Smith Center

52067 - Encrypted, SBI RIDs on this group.
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Old 01-26-2016, 6:31 AM
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Anybody identified these two?

TGID #: 52637 - "UNC 2" @ Smith Center

52067 - Encrypted, SBI RIDs on this group.
Both of the above talkgroups have been added to the VIPER database listing.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2016, 9:14 AM
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Has anyone heard IMAP units in Charlotte recently? I don't typically keep their talkgroups on but had tried during the storm last week. I never heard anything.
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2016, 9:16 AM
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They're on VIPER. Look in the database towards the bottom under the DOT heading and you'll see the TGs.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:01 AM
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They used to operate on the Troop radio freq low band/VIPER that was local to their patrol area. That is what they did in Wake County.
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