Mystery NXDN activity

[troymail]

Recently been monitoring NXDN48 activity on 463.9 in the Brunswick County area. DSD+ is reporting it as NID 219, Site 15 with neighbors of 4, 7, and 20. The RAN is 15 (matching the site). The signal seems to be fairly strong from at least Bolivia to Shallotte to Holden Beach

All activity is on TGID 353 with all radios showing (on my TRX1 and 2) as 7.

From what I am hearing, it sounds like an electric company maintenance talkgroup - I think I'm hearing "Asheboro Engineering" as the central station being called.

I see there are two different NXDN48 systems listed in the area - one in South Carolina and one in North Carolina - and both are indicating the SYSID of 219.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8150

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9178

I cannot find 463.9 Mhz licensed anywhere in this area but to be honest I haven't checked licensing in counties north of Brunswick. I did do some wider area checks for this frequency but haven't really found anything.

I have to be missing something....

Any ideas?

 

[28056]

From what I am hearing, it sounds like an electric company maintenance talkgroup - I think I'm hearing "Asheboro Engineering" as the central station being called.

Wild guess... maybe a member of the North Carolina Electric Cooperatives.

North Carolina Electric Cooperatives

Counties served with listings of Randolph County are...

Randolph Electric Membership Corporation (headquarters in Asheboro)
Central Electric Membership Corporation
EnergyUnited

Brunswick Electric Membership Corporation is also a member, so maybe their systems are capable of being linked together?


When I was in the FD down there I always kept the old UHF BEMC frequency in my scanners for storms.

 

[ecps92]

Likely ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WNPU464 - COMMONWEALTH REPEATER SERVICES INC
which has not been updated for any DMR

Recently been monitoring NXDN48 activity on 463.9 in the Brunswick County area. DSD+ is reporting it as NID 219, Site 15 with neighbors of 4, 7, and 20. The RAN is 15 (matching the site). The signal seems to be fairly strong from at least Bolivia to Shallotte to Holden Beach

All activity is on TGID 353 with all radios showing (on my TRX1 and 2) as 7.

From what I am hearing, it sounds like an electric company maintenance talkgroup - I think I'm hearing "Asheboro Engineering" as the central station being called.

I see there are two different NXDN48 systems listed in the area - one in South Carolina and one in North Carolina - and both are indicating the SYSID of 219.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8150

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9178

I cannot find 463.9 Mhz licensed anywhere in this area but to be honest I haven't checked licensing in counties north of Brunswick. I did do some wider area checks for this frequency but haven't really found anything.

I have to be missing something....

Any ideas?

 

[brian]

System 219 is a wide area networked NXDN system operated by different LMR providers. Probably the biggest one in our area is Rock Communications.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fle&stid=45&en=Rock Communications LLC

But there are others. J M Stewart is another partner in the SC area.

One mystery about the system are "who are the users" and the general answer is anyone who pays one of these companies for access to their system, like any for-profit LTR or DMR system provider. The other is "why aren't all the sites licensed?" I won't say it's common for this system to have active frequencies that I couldn't find an active license for, but I have definitely seen it before.

 

[troymail]

Thanks for the input -- I've come across most of this in my research... I guess I'll need to keep monitoring for more activity and see if I can find more channels/frequencies.

Some additional activity last night spoke about electrical connections for a church north of Asheboro...

This morning, I saw additional talkgroups and radios but no location information heard yet.

I've noted this frequency with a NXDN control channel for several months now (when looking) which makes it easy to detect. Other potential frequencies are hard to detect unless there is activity. Perhaps this is a new site being stood up and the Asheboro activity is simply activity being fed for testing.

BTW - This Randolph County tower is about 150 miles from here.... but stranger things happen...

Likely ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WNPU464 - COMMONWEALTH REPEATER SERVICES INC
which has not been updated for any DMR

 

[ecps92]

The other thing is to find the web site of the Vendors [Radio Shops]
Many times they will have a map of the coverage and sometimes the Repeater locations listed as well as the other cooperating radio shops...

System 219 is a wide area networked NXDN system operated by different LMR providers. Probably the biggest one in our area is Rock Communications.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fle&stid=45&en=Rock Communications LLC

But there are others. J M Stewart is another partner in the SC area.

One mystery about the system are "who are the users" and the general answer is anyone who pays one of these companies for access to their system, like any for-profit LTR or DMR system provider. The other is "why aren't all the sites licensed?" I won't say it's common for this system to have active frequencies that I couldn't find an active license for, but I have definitely seen it before.

 

[troymail]

Yup - was checking this out yesterday as well.... nice cut-out for Brunswick and Wilmington/New Hanover.... still digging.

The other thing is to find the web site of the Vendors [Radio Shops]
Many times they will have a map of the coverage and sometimes the Repeater locations listed as well as the other cooperating radio shops...

 

[theoldcop]

This is killing me!! I live in Wilmington but I'm about 700 miles away right now. I'll monitor and post my results when I get back next week! (AOR AR-DV1).

 

[Phillipsc84]

System 219 as I have been told is actually two Generation 1 NEDEDGE48 systems. One is the "NC" system and the other is the "SC" system. Both have the ID of 219. I have found that at some locations you may only find the FCC listing for just the control channel and then the others are "borrowed" from other licenses elsewhere. It's a challenge to track for sure but the good thing is the system does show channel numbers which *so far* have been the standard band plan for NEXEDGE. There is a whole thread on here discussing how to calculate the frequency. I made a spreadsheet to type in the channel numbers and it will give the frequency. I also have heard comms from as far away (from Charlotte) as Florida. You never know who's roaming and what you might hear. I've been trying to track and confirm this system for about a year now so anything you find submit submit submit to the database.

 

[troymail]

System 219 as I have been told is actually two Generation 1 NEDEDGE48 systems. One is the "NC" system and the other is the "SC" system. Both have the ID of 219. I have found that at some locations you may only find the FCC listing for just the control channel and then the others are "borrowed" from other licenses elsewhere. It's a challenge to track for sure but the good thing is the system does show channel numbers which *so far* have been the standard band plan for NEXEDGE. There is a whole thread on here discussing how to calculate the frequency. I made a spreadsheet to type in the channel numbers and it will give the frequency. I also have heard comms from as far away (from Charlotte) as Florida. You never know who's roaming and what you might hear. I've been trying to track and confirm this system for about a year now so anything you find submit submit submit to the database.

Thanks for the info - I'd love to get more ... I am always looking for new things to submit but in this case, I'm having trouble figuring out if this is part of an existing system or something new - and that's even before I can submit talkgroup activity. It also seems strange to me that both the Fleettalk NC and SC systems are listed on the RRDB and there are no talkgroups identified... 42 sites between the two listings and not a single talkgroup submitted?

Seems crazy that there is strong activity like this on a frequency in this area and no licensing information for it (I'm still not convinced this is really coming from a tower 150 miles from here -- at least, not as strong as this signal is). I suppose it is possible that, being close to the coast here, I am receiving things at some great distances... research continues.

I may have come across another NXDN frequency yesterday that I haven't found ownership for yet ... 462.7125...

 

[ecps92]

462.7125 is FRS/GMRS, so it is either...

a. Image/interference
b. Illegal User

You won't find that Freq in an FCC Search

Thanks for the info - I'd love to get more ... I am always looking for new things to submit but in this case, I'm having trouble figuring out if this is part of an existing system or something new - and that's even before I can submit talkgroup activity. It also seems strange to me that both the Fleettalk NC and SC systems are listed on the RRDB and there are no talkgroups identified... 42 sites between the two listings and not a single talkgroup submitted?

Seems crazy that there is strong activity like this on a frequency in this area and no licensing information for it (I'm still not convinced this is really coming from a tower 150 miles from here -- at least, not as strong as this signal is). I suppose it is possible that, being close to the coast here, I am receiving things at some great distances... research continues.

I may have come across another NXDN frequency yesterday that I haven't found ownership for yet ... 462.7125...

 

[troymail]

462.7125 is FRS/GMRS, so it is either...

a. Image/interference
b. Illegal User

You won't find that Freq in an FCC Search

Thanks - I thought it might be some other non-licensed frequency so I checked for that but apparently didn't check long enough...

Common Itinerant and Business - The RadioReference Wiki

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php?title=Common_Itinerant_and_Business&oldid=6775

 

[troymail]

Not sure if this helps with the puzzle - but interesting anyway. Another interesting thing is that although I am hearing voice on my TRX-1, DSD isn't showing reflections of it.

EDIT: Actually - the DSD+ text (DOS) window is showing VOICE (vs. DATA) while I hear voice but the Event Log display isn't showing much other than neighbors and radio registrations

 

[Phillipsc84]

Thanks for the info - I'd love to get more ... I am always looking for new things to submit but in this case, I'm having trouble figuring out if this is part of an existing system or something new - and that's even before I can submit talkgroup activity. It also seems strange to me that both the Fleettalk NC and SC systems are listed on the RRDB and there are no talkgroups identified... 42 sites between the two listings and not a single talkgroup submitted?

Seems crazy that there is strong activity like this on a frequency in this area and no licensing information for it (I'm still not convinced this is really coming from a tower 150 miles from here -- at least, not as strong as this signal is). I suppose it is possible that, being close to the coast here, I am receiving things at some great distances... research continues.

I may have come across another NXDN frequency yesterday that I haven't found ownership for yet ... 462.7125...

Talkgroups most likely haven't been submitted because the site's aren't all confirmed complete yet. So it makes scanning a little harder and thus makes IDing a group spotty. Just my guess.

As far as the licensing, that seems to be just the way of things with this type of system. I have a few other DMR systems in my area that are the same way. What happens appears to be they have a site and it has let's say 5 frequencies licensed to it. It's a low traffic site so someone says, "hey we have these unused frequencies at this site but we really need 2 more at this other site. And now you have two frequencies at a site you can't find a license for. It's a pain to track but it happens. A lot. Of all the sites I've tracked down and confirmed I can say almost every one has frequencies I couldn't or had a hard time finding. Sometimes only the control channel was licensed. And even more fun is when a business who already has it's own licensed frequencies signs up and then "bring their own" frequency(s) to the system. The best way to know is by those channel numbers. So far they are on the standard plan so the numbers correctly map to the frequency. For all interested here is the discussion about how to calculate the frequency from channel number.

https://forums.radioreference.com/v...re/298075-understanding-nexedge-trunking.html

 

[troymail]

Talkgroups most likely haven't been submitted because the site's aren't all confirmed complete yet. So it makes scanning a little harder and thus makes IDing a group spotty. Just my guess.

As far as the licensing, that seems to be just the way of things with this type of system. I have a few other DMR systems in my area that are the same way. What happens appears to be they have a site and it has let's say 5 frequencies licensed to it. It's a low traffic site so someone says, "hey we have these unused frequencies at this site but we really need 2 more at this other site. And now you have two frequencies at a site you can't find a license for. It's a pain to track but it happens. A lot. Of all the sites I've tracked down and confirmed I can say almost every one has frequencies I couldn't or had a hard time finding. Sometimes only the control channel was licensed. And even more fun is when a business who already has it's own licensed frequencies signs up and then "bring their own" frequency(s) to the system. The best way to know is by those channel numbers. So far they are on the standard plan so the numbers correctly map to the frequency. For all interested here is the discussion about how to calculate the frequency from channel number.

https://forums.radioreference.com/v...re/298075-understanding-nexedge-trunking.html

Ok - thanks.... I went ahead earlier and made a spreadsheet to try to calculate the other two "channels" DSD+ is showing and I've programmed them as well into a 2nd radio.

Looking at some of the license data, I did see reflections of a whole bunch of old licenses that were expired (some seemed to exist and other didn't) that may have been rolled into new ones. It certainly is quite a mess - and I experienced similar issues looking at NXDN systems in Maryland and Pennsylvania. I think the big difference here (if it what is really happening) is the spectrum was so heavily used up in that area that I don't think the FCC would allow too much undocumented frequency usage and/or signals traveling this far (if in fact I am hearing things from Asheboro).

As far as talkgroups being submitted for the existing 219 systems in NC and SC -- looking at the other Fleettalk systems - particularly in GA - it would seem that using "Unidentified User" in talkgroup submissions isn't a totally bad place to start.... just a thought.

 

[nd5y]

Since this is a 4800 baud system make sure that you check for 6.25 kHz interstitial channels and licenses. For example if you find 461.0125 make sure that you aren't really receiving 461.00625 or 461.01875.

 

[troymail]

Well, with Phillip's help, the mystery is getting a bit clearer.

Phillip was able to point me to some historical data and an expired license. Interestingly, I'd seen this license in the past but couldn't find it in the past few days. I now see why.

Google says that the licensee - Kanoy Telecom - is permanently closed. I wonder if that's true - they have about 5 active (along with a few expired and canceled) licenses in the area...

The research continues.....

 

[qball]

Kanoy Communications is aka Gorilla 911.

 

[troymail]

Kanoy Communications is aka Gorilla 911.

Yes, I followed the trail and saw that also -- based on the business phone number.

It's curious what the story is on this tower/license. I drove past the tower just northwest of Rt 17 and 211. The signal is definitely coming from that tower. I've detected two other active talkgroups (but only very briefly) but so far no other frequencies. I think it was suggested it may be related to the local Brunswick Electric Cooperative since the activity appears to be the outage teams for Randolph Electric Cooperative in and around Asheboro.

On a very related note - this hodgepodge layout of the two SYSID 219 Fleettalk systems is even crazier if accurate. I suppose anything is possible but it seems pretty odd to be listening to activity from Asheboro on a site in Brunswick NC but the site is part of the SC Fleettalk system. On the other hand, as has been pointed out, the sites and frequencies (at least some) appear to be a consolidation of previously stand-alone licencees. The listed expired/canceled Brunswick tower license looks like it was originally licensed as a telephone interconnect site but it is obvious that the information was not maintained.

Now that the site is part of a system, I've submitted the three talkgroups for which I've seen activity on DSD+ and heard on my TRX radios.... just waiting for someone to be assigned to update the system. We really need some talkgroups posted to potentially get some additional interest by others in looking at the system and expanding on the data.

 

[Phillipsc84]

You have to imagine all the fleet talk systems as if they are one big multi state system. Since technically they are. Covering Florida to New York and west out to Kentucky and Tennessee. It's a huge system and occasionally a talk group gets pulled across the network. People could take their radios with them on trips or vacations and turn it on to pull their groups from Florida up to you.


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