Buncombe Co P25
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nated1992
Member
90% of buncombe is phase one... honestly not sure any of it is phase 2 as I believe in SO channels are marked as it and they are encrypted... at any rate my phase 1 scanner picks it up just fine and if you just pick 6.25 it will cover the 12.5 split I believe. Also every couple of months the control channel changes
I program all of the system channels and the scanner follows any cc changes automatically.
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe P 25
Good afternoon all, I am currently running the Buncombe County System as a Phase 2, with the I.D. search on. All of the I.D.'s that appear are identical to the I.D.'s assigned as a Phase 1 system..... I will let you all form your own opinions as to the meaning of that. I know what I have been told in the past, I understand that, and agree with it. I can simply tell you the I.D. numbers are in the same format as they have always been.... Take care, have a great day.
Good afternoon all, I am currently running the Buncombe County System as a Phase 2, with the I.D. search on. All of the I.D.'s that appear are identical to the I.D.'s assigned as a Phase 1 system..... I will let you all form your own opinions as to the meaning of that. I know what I have been told in the past, I understand that, and agree with it. I can simply tell you the I.D. numbers are in the same format as they have always been.... Take care, have a great day.
nated1992
Member
So it works set as a phase 2 system and phase 1..
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
I only have the most basic of understanding 1 vs. 2. Someone with a better grip on the issue than me should speak as to why this occurs. Since the beginning of F.C.C. licenses being issued for use of Phase 1 and 2, I have found that a Phase 1 system can be monitored when building a Phase 2 system, but that does not mean the system is operating in a Phase 2 format... Why that occurs is not for me to explain, Take care, happy listening
I only have the most basic of understanding 1 vs. 2. Someone with a better grip on the issue than me should speak as to why this occurs. Since the beginning of F.C.C. licenses being issued for use of Phase 1 and 2, I have found that a Phase 1 system can be monitored when building a Phase 2 system, but that does not mean the system is operating in a Phase 2 format... Why that occurs is not for me to explain, Take care, happy listening
troymail
Silent Key
Some systems are considered "Phase 2 compliant" or "Phase 2 ready" but are only being used as a Phase 1 system. That is, you'll see systems listed as "Phase 2" but operating only in Phase 1 mode. I know of at least one system that (routinely, intentionally) uses a mixture of Phase 1 and Phase 2. This more or less (I assume) simply positions the system owners to switch over to Phase 2 at some point in the future (typically the big hold up is probably the need to acquire new Phase 2 capable radios).
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
Yeah,, what he said....
Yeah,, what he said....
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
I have never had the chance to monitor a true Phase 2 system that migrated from Phase 1. But, I have been told the I.D. format will be distinctly different than the original Phase 1 system...
I have never had the chance to monitor a true Phase 2 system that migrated from Phase 1. But, I have been told the I.D. format will be distinctly different than the original Phase 1 system...
troymail
Silent Key
"format"?
Many times the "new" talkgroups could be different and in a different zone on a radio to facilitate switching more easily but as far as I know, the values (format?) will still be the same (a number in the range of 1-655xx).
For migration to Phase 2, I'm not really certain that new talkgroup IDs are even necessary. Typically, Phase 2 subscriber radios will revert to Phase 1 as long as there is a Phase 1 radio affiliated with a talkgroup. Then, once every radio affiliated and switched to a given talkgroup are all Phase 2, the talkgroup will be in Phase 2 mode.
Of course, there are no hard and fast rules on this - it depends on the system configuration and options.
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
Interesting,,, that does make sense. I had been thinking when referring to format, that say an I.D. was 4034 for Buncombe Fire Med, it would switch to 400062 or something. But I see what you are saying. I was confusing when Asheville P.D. went from M-36 to P25, and that changed everything. I can see clearly now, the rain has gone....
Interesting,,, that does make sense. I had been thinking when referring to format, that say an I.D. was 4034 for Buncombe Fire Med, it would switch to 400062 or something. But I see what you are saying. I was confusing when Asheville P.D. went from M-36 to P25, and that changed everything. I can see clearly now, the rain has gone....
troymail
Silent Key
Yup - there is always the possibility that "within" a P25 system, they might switch to different talkgroup IDs that are configured to do something different (for example - full time encryption - but I'm guessing they could do that without any change in TGIDs too.
I have heard of systems that went from legacy Motorola to a Phase 1 or 2 system and keeping the same TGIDs/layout but I don't recall every seeing one in real life personally.
Typically, the TGIDs will be completely different when going from the older Moto systems to full P25. One reason is that older Motorola systems spaced talkgroup IDs out to allow for "status bits" (patching/multi-select, emergency activation, encryption, etc.). It is for that reason you would see talkgroups sequenced like 16, 48, 80, 112, etc. on the old systems... P25 systems don't use that "status bit" solution so the talkgroups are more likely to be more sequential/one-up for various reasons.
Again - there isn't a "one size fits all" answer here. Like most technology, there are options and each system can be configured differently.
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
You can always be counted on to explain something in an understandable manner, thanks man.. I would add this in reference to Buncombe County P 25 system, I have yet to land on any talk groups other than all of the F.D. operations. Of course the S.O. is still encrypted. If anyone has found any other users recently, such as any public works crews, transportation, etc. give a shout out. Thanks all.
You can always be counted on to explain something in an understandable manner, thanks man.. I would add this in reference to Buncombe County P 25 system, I have yet to land on any talk groups other than all of the F.D. operations. Of course the S.O. is still encrypted. If anyone has found any other users recently, such as any public works crews, transportation, etc. give a shout out. Thanks all.
troymail
Silent Key
I always try to be as thorough, clear, and accurate as I possibly can... but like (most) everyone else here, I learn new things here everyday.
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
nated1992,, if you can, can you build and monitor both the Phase 1 and Phase 2 systems?? Then see if the voice modulation is distinctly clearer on the Phase 2 system. Could simply be my goofy imagination, but I have been switching back and forth between the two, and Phase 2 sounds much clearer to me....
Motoman55, I had thought you were located in the east of the state, I just looked at your original post, are you close? If your able to, can you compare the two. It would be interesting to see if someone else detects a difference.
nated1992,, if you can, can you build and monitor both the Phase 1 and Phase 2 systems?? Then see if the voice modulation is distinctly clearer on the Phase 2 system. Could simply be my goofy imagination, but I have been switching back and forth between the two, and Phase 2 sounds much clearer to me....
Motoman55, I had thought you were located in the east of the state, I just looked at your original post, are you close? If your able to, can you compare the two. It would be interesting to see if someone else detects a difference.
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To those with P25 phase 2 experience: It is my understanding that phase 1 is analog and phase 2 is TDMA digital. My Unitrunker receiver is just a standard SDR dongle. If any local system goes 100% phase 2, would I still be able to decode the control channel (only) with the SDR dongle? I realize that I would need a phase 2 receiver to monitor any voice traffic, assuming no encryption.
AlphaFive - Although I have not actually heard any, I would expect that the phase 2 transmissions would be much clearer because they are digital rather than analog. Similar to DMR radio vs. analog.
AlphaFive - Although I have not actually heard any, I would expect that the phase 2 transmissions would be much clearer because they are digital rather than analog. Similar to DMR radio vs. analog.
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troymail
Silent Key
That is incorrect. All P25 (Phase 1 or Phase 2) is digital.
Phase 1 is FDMA
Phase 2 is TDMA.
I believe the control channel is more or less the same for both Phase 1 and Phase 2 - just some different data given the bandplan/channel handling is different.
During transition, a system is put in Dynamic Dual mode,.. If an FDMA user is using the repeater, it will be FDMA on that site until an TDMA user affiliates and broadcasts. Then it will be TDMA until that user is done. Once the system is full TDMA, there will no longer be FDMA allowed on it. The TG IDs will stay the same unless the System Owners/Admins have some need to change them. RIDs will also be the same for the units that were TDMA capable. Only time the RID will change is if an user was on a radio that was NOT compatible and replaced. Then that unit will of course have a new RID as he/she has a new radio.
nated1992
Member
No not currently, I need a scanner update lol.
I know one of the local IT guys for the system I'll just ask him
AlphaFive
Member
Buncombe
Thanks, sounds good. I have just decided to delete the Phase 1 system, and leave Phase 2 as my system for Buncombe. It works well for me.. take care
Thanks, sounds good. I have just decided to delete the Phase 1 system, and leave Phase 2 as my system for Buncombe. It works well for me.. take care
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