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Old 11-17-2007, 2:16 PM
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Default Lancaster County - P25 System (Was OpenSky System Dumped)

This thread is for Lancaster Counties New MA/COM OpenSKy Digital Trunk System.
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:19 AM
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Wink The Following Is From A Nextel Engineer

I am forwarding this email which was sent to me.
================================================== ======
I work for Nextel/Sprint and am the "public safety interference person" now dealing with the Commonwealth of PA's. "Open Sky" complaints of interference from Nextel sites. The PA. system is "in trouble", as its how many millions of dollars over budget, and how many years past when it was to be fully implemented ?? We have proven the first line of Macom radios that were produced do not meet published specs' and they do not like any nearby strong 800 Mhz. signals, and have definite receiver issues. If your county jumps in on the bandwagon to buy "Open Sky" they need to do a little more homework, they should be asking some of the agencies that have been caught up in the "Open Sky" magic and wish they weren't.

I have to go back out tonight to investigate more of the state's complaints against Nextel, if you care about scoring we're winning by about 90% !!

PA. is a large state with various terrain issues, I would like to know who the idiot was that thought 800 Mhz. was the savior of all radio coverage problems. Stick with VHF trunking, such as Cecil County, MD.. They purchased Macom EDACS equipment, and its working very well, or check out Motorola Astro, if you can afford to spend $3500 a radio. The bottom line is the infrastructure, if you want 95% coverage, then be prepared to spend some bucks, if you think you can do it cheap you're only kidding yourself.
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:53 PM
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Talking Lancaster *officially* scraps Opensky!!!

Gosh I can't make this stuff up. It makes me so happy to be writing this.

Unofficially "Officially" (Since the Announcement has not been made yet by LCWC) yesterday at the Inter- Municipality the M/ACOM 800mhz Opensky system has been scrapped.



Here are the details that I have found out:

* New System will not be online till the year 2011
All pubic safety are encouraged to buy the radios that you need for your usage until that time for the current radio system (33mhz/154mhz).

* The new system that the County is looking at is M/ACOM 500mhz EDACS system which will be compatible with both Lebanon and York Counties.

* LCWC will place this on hold till the new commissioners take office in January.

* The existing tower infrastructure is already there. Might be a few new towers popping up here and there, but that is it.

* I have heard the delay till 2011 is because of the court battle between Lancaster and M/ACOM, but I can't confirm that.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommahawk
Unofficially "Officially" (Since the Announcement has not been made yet by LCWC) yesterday at the Inter- Municipality the M/ACOM 800mhz Opensky system has been scrapped.
Took them long enough to figure that out...

Quote:
* The new system that the County is looking at is M/ACOM 500mhz EDACS system which will be compatible with both Lebanon and York Counties.
I would think that Lancaster County, if they choose to stay with M/ACom, should go with the P25IP system that would be compatible with York County, but also Dauphin County's Moto P25 system. The thought of Lancaster County going EDACS makes one a little nervous.

On the flip side, if they do go EDACS (which I would think would be a mistake compared to the P25IP that York's building out at present), that would be compatible with Lebanon Count and Cecil County, Md. (both EDACS systems).

Long live low band (at least for the next 3-4 years)...

Now if only Chester County would drop EFJunk and get a real P25 system, then I'd really be happy...
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Old 12-14-2007, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommahawk
Gosh I can't make this stuff up. It makes me so happy to be writing this.

Unofficially "Officially" (Since the Announcement has not been made yet by LCWC) yesterday at the Inter- Municipality the M/ACOM 800mhz Opensky system has been scrapped.



Here are the details that I have found out:

* New System will not be online till the year 2011
All pubic safety are encouraged to buy the radios that you need for your usage until that time for the current radio system (33mhz/154mhz).

* The new system that the County is looking at is M/ACOM 500mhz EDACS system which will be compatible with both Lebanon and York Counties.

* LCWC will place this on hold till the new commissioners take office in January.

* The existing tower infrastructure is already there. Might be a few new towers popping up here and there, but that is it.

* I have heard the delay till 2011 is because of the court battle between Lancaster and M/ACOM, but I can't confirm that.

Thanks for the update Joe. That is the best news I have heard so far for LanCo.

A IP25 UHF-T band system will work great for LanCo. as long as it is built out correctly.

And Lebanon can easily patch talk groups from Both Motorola P25 Trunked Systems & MA/COM IP25 Trunked Systems to our EDACS Analog / Provoice System.

Not to mention the radios can also operate on simplex non trunked Channels.

Please let us know whne you find out anything else, so we can update the database for LanCo. PA.
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Last edited by scan-pa; 12-15-2007 at 3:12 PM..
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Old 12-14-2007, 5:43 PM
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Question

Joe:

You wrote:
* New System will not be online till the year 2011
All pubic safety are encouraged to buy the radios that you need for your usage until that time for the current radio system (33mhz/154mhz).

* The new system that the County is looking at is M/ACOM 500mhz EDACS system which will be compatible with both Lebanon and York Counties.

* LCWC will place this on hold till the new commissioners take office in January.

* The existing tower infrastructure is already there. Might be a few new towers popping up here and there, but that is it.

* I have heard the delay till 2011 is because of the court battle between Lancaster and M/ACOM, but I can't confirm that.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:48 AM
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Good for my old home county.....
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Old 12-16-2007, 1:48 AM
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Bob;

It hasn't appeared in the local papers, nor has LCWC made it public. I don't know why they want to keep it silent but they do. The same thing happened in September when they said they were looking into possible alternatives in their "Radio System Update To Stakeholders". They didn't post the "Official Announcement" till October 22nd.

For whatever reason they don't like to release details. Whether it be because of contract obligations or other items I don't know.....
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Old 03-01-2008, 1:45 PM
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Default **M/A COM dead in Lancaster County**

Well it seems like it is official now. M/A COM and the Open Sky fiasco are now not even a viable option anymore in Lancaster County. Among other items discussed by the staff of LCWC it was announced at the annual Fire Officers training weekend that another option is being looked at now.

Hmmm... 500mhz sounds promising if it happens.. Maybe a Motorola system.... who knows.... The good news is the basic infrastructure has already been built and if it is 500mhz should provide enough of a footprint to actually work!

The bad news..... The County of Lancaster has already spent millions of dollars on the Open Sky system and departments like Lancaster City PD already have the Open Sky radios available to them. They are in storage, but imagine the price of the radios that they have already purchased. Now they have to somewhat makeup the costs of the radios......

But the good thing is Open Sky is dead!!!
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Old 03-01-2008, 2:26 PM
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Wink really?

Do u have any documention to back up the Lancaster County situation? ie: newspaper article?
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Old 03-01-2008, 3:30 PM
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You won't find any documentation in the secretive world of Lancaster County. Because the County of Lancaster doesn't want the information published, but hopefully when I go to the County Commissioners meeting on Wednesday this will change. Hopefully the two individuals that I have asked to come with me will be able to be off of work and ask the very tough questions...... Is it against the sunshine law that the County of Lancaster keeps this information silent? Yes it is. Is it wrong? Yes it is.

I don't have a lot of faith in LCWC over this issue. There are several other issues outside of the current radio system that should have made headlines, but haven't. How do I know? I used to work at the 911 center!

My only agenda now is to make sure that the County of Lancaster, especially LCWC realizes that they aren't above the federal government. Even the federal government posts information about their systems. I have heard with my own ears that LCWC doesn't want to publish the information due to security reasons which I find to be bull****.....

As far as documentation verbally a gentleman that was at the meeting last night is a active member of this board. Hopefully he can add his two cents, but here is a quote from his post...
Quote:
We Chiefs were told: it is now official. Not only will it not be Open Sky, it will not be M/A-Com.
I realized that you already posted under that topic, but I believe a first hand account from a Fire Chief is believeable....... Afterall you won't find the County of Lancaster publishing details on it.....

For more information see the topic under http://www.radioreference.com/forums...ad.php?t=95687 under the M/ACom discussion.
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Old 03-01-2008, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommahawk
They are in storage, but imagine the price of the radios that they have already purchased. Now they have to somewhat makeup the costs of the radios......
Sell them to Cumberland or PA state or Las Vegas or some other poor sap thats stuck in the OpenSky mess.

But as Brey asked, is there any official release to corroborate this news, or are you carrying on a rumor?
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Old 03-01-2008, 3:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommahawk
You won't find any documentation in the secretive world of Lancaster County. Because the County of Lancaster doesn't want the information published, but hopefully when I go to the County Commissioners meeting on Wednesday this will change. Hopefully the two individuals that I have asked to come with me will be able to be off of work and ask the very tough questions...... Is it against the sunshine law that the County of Lancaster keeps this information silent? Yes it is. Is it wrong? Yes it is.

I don't have a lot of faith in LCWC over this issue. There are several other issues outside of the current radio system that should have made headlines, but haven't. How do I know? I used to work at the 911 center!

My only agenda now is to make sure that the County of Lancaster, especially LCWC realizes that they aren't above the federal government. Even the federal government posts information about their systems. I have heard with my own ears that LCWC doesn't want to publish the information due to security reasons which I find to be bull****.....
Yes, it's taxpayer money on the line so the county doesn't have the option to "keep it secret" and if they're abandoning OpenSky, how is that a security issue? If they're looking to 500mhz, they'll eventually have to forfeit the 800mhz licenses, which will be easy for us to find.
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Old 03-01-2008, 7:08 PM
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OCGUARD;

Nope, not a rumor the truth. If you would have read what I had written a gentleman that is on Radioreference was at said meeting last night and I even provided a link to it so how can it be just a rumor? Do you believe in GOD? Do you question his authority? Maybe instead of being a skeptic you should be willing to open up your eyes and see that just because it isn't in black & white it doesn't mean that it did not occur!

LCWC has in the past been very secretive about other incidents that have occured as well. Among them are two cases of pedophile cases involving communication employees and how the feds knocked on the door of LCWC with search warrants, yet you never saw one peep about it in the newspaper...... How do I know? I was there for the first one. The second one was much more recent ...... Remember don't trust those in power, trust those willing to tell the truth!!!
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Old 03-01-2008, 7:44 PM
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Hawk, chill, skepticism is a common place when it comes to the Lancaster OpenScam.

I'm glad to see they're really going to get rid of it!
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:59 PM
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Question My Experience

Back in 2000--BEFORE the new Sunshine/Open Records law was passed--I asked for all the documentaion the state had on it's Open Sky contract. At first I was told that was not public record.
After stating that I would sue for the records---a box weighing about 25 pounds was mailed to me with ALL the records including a lot about the Ma/Com system.
ALL the records, including letters to and from the County Commissioners and the vendor should be public record. You may have to pay for copying.
Don't them them try and derail u by saying the records concern ongoing contract negosiations and are not open---As I understand it the contract has been signed.
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Old 03-03-2008, 9:35 AM
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Interesting enough today a phone call was made to LCWC concerning the system to see if they would confirm what had occured and the individual that called was told that the county was not prepared to comment on it, yet is a official announcement.

Lets just watch the newsmedia over the next couple of days and see what pops up (hint hint!! ) I don't think the county is going to be happy with me but a resident has to voice his/her concerns right?
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:56 PM
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Taking it to the TVs and Newspapers. Well, I don't think this system is any good. We don't have it in Erie County, but PSP is at some point in time going to upgrade.

Good luck.
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Old 03-03-2008, 1:24 PM
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After reading through this topic and related ones with the troubles involving Open Scam, I feel maybe it isn't the best choice for many places around here. When I saw that in order for the system to provide full coverage in Lancaster County 51 towers would have to be built, I said "That is way too many towers." Even when they said they could reduce it to 30 by using something that I can't think of the name of, I still thought that was too many towers. A rural area like Lancaster County should NOT be using weak 800 megahertz frequencies. 800 mHz is better suited for urban areas where terrain is not a major issue with coverage. I feel Lancaster County should stick with a UHF Hi band system. It would require far fewer towers and better coverage. For those who follow the PA STARNet system, if you've noticed, Penn DOT is retaining the lowband radios in areas where the 800 mHz coverage is not there. I don't know why all these agencies feel 800 mHz is the best option. If you ask me the frequencies that provide the best coverage seem to be in the UHF Hi region (406-512 mHz). Delaware County in PA as well as Camden and Gloucester Counties in NJ use 500 mHz conventional systems for public safety radios. The coverage on them is pretty good and gets the job done. Another problem I have with Open Scam is the fact that no scanner on the market today can decode it. As a concerned citizen I may want to know how my tax money is being spent. If I hear all this talk about a new radio system, I may want to listen to it to see if it was worth it. Open Scam doesn't seem to be worth the money in rural areas.
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Old 03-03-2008, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Septa3371CSX1
After reading through this topic and related ones with the troubles involving Open Scam, I feel maybe it isn't the best choice for many places around here. When I saw that in order for the system to provide full coverage in Lancaster County 51 towers would have to be built, I said "That is way too many towers." Even when they said they could reduce it to 30 by using something that I can't think of the name of, I still thought that was too many towers. A rural area like Lancaster County should NOT be using weak 800 megahertz frequencies. 800 mHz is better suited for urban areas where terrain is not a major issue with coverage. I feel Lancaster County should stick with a UHF Hi band system. It would require far fewer towers and better coverage. For those who follow the PA STARNet system, if you've noticed, Penn DOT is retaining the lowband radios in areas where the 800 mHz coverage is not there. I don't know why all these agencies feel 800 mHz is the best option. If you ask me the frequencies that provide the best coverage seem to be in the UHF Hi region (406-512 mHz). Delaware County in PA as well as Camden and Gloucester Counties in NJ use 500 mHz conventional systems for public safety radios. The coverage on them is pretty good and gets the job done. Another problem I have with Open Scam is the fact that no scanner on the market today can decode it. As a concerned citizen I may want to know how my tax money is being spent. If I hear all this talk about a new radio system, I may want to listen to it to see if it was worth it. Open Scam doesn't seem to be worth the money in rural areas.
You got that right - there isn't a problem with the old conventional system at all. All of this really seems to be a waste of money, time and resources. The only problem with conventional systems is that it can be heard, but, really, what's to cover up? Not a thing. If it's got to be kept hush hush, they can use other means of communications. The VHF/UHF band will always be the best. This trunking system as well seems like a lot of garbage and confusion.

PENNDot, going back to the low band has to do with the Northeastern counties, right?
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