Just an FYI on Garden City Kansas

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JRAUDIOKS

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FYI Finney County has voted to encrypt the POLICE, EMS, SHERIFF. The last stage of the encryption is complete. If someone has black market descramblers let me know. I understand that there is nothing to descramble digital encryption. Although KHP and weather spotters and FIRE are still available for monitoring.
 

jasonkw

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I believe it is a federal offense to listen to encrypted communications. Don't even think about it.
 

JoeyC

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I believe it is a federal offense to listen to encrypted communications. Don't even think about it.

If it were a federal offense to listen to encrypted comms, there would be a lot of guilty cops out there breaking federal law. It may however be a federal offense to decrypt the encryption, although impossible. If the city in question is operating on the statewide system as the database suggests, there is no such black market box.
 

PVPD730

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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.186 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105) Don't even think about it.

I'll echo that statement. Like JoeyC stated, it would be nearly impossible to decrypt, but should you find a way to do it, shhhh...keep it to yourself.
 

jasonkw

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Sorry, that's what I meant. I was referring to decrypting. I should have made that clear.
 

ksduster

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The part about HIPPA, you can say on the radio, the patients condition, age of patient, and gender.. that information is related to the care of the patient..

Not suppose to say the name of the person..
I dont think i've ever heard a name over a fire or ems channel, other than the name of a lost juvenile.
 

n0lqt

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I'll echo that statement. Like JoeyC stated, it would be nearly impossible to decrypt, but should you find a way to do it, shhhh...keep it to yourself.

Keep it to yourself? Hell, I'd have it published in every journal of mathmatics and communications that would accept the article! And then I'd fire off an application to a couple of federal agencies. One that doesn't exist..."No Such Agency" and another just outside Langley Va.

Actually, the best way to attack full agency encryption is to get with someone in the media. Help them make a stink about what are the agencies trying to hide. The phrase "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" or "Who guards the Guardians?" works real well. The news media are usually very interested in defeating full encryption because they can't hear what is going on either. Editors don't know whether to send a full news crew to the bank robbery in progress or not to worry about the three units chatting about the drunk on the corner.
 
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dunatre1

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Finney County

Getting the media involved in Finney County doesn't work, they are in bed with the county commissioners/administrator. It is impossible to get anything even slightly negative published that has to do with local government.
 

JRAUDIOKS

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In response to DUNATRE1. Some one must of brought up some "hiding" issues to sheriff dept. They have chosen to shut off encryption on their radios. I GIVE BIG PROPS TO THE SHERIFF. I understand that complaints to sheriff has driven this decision. Thank You. I know that there are things that everyone does not need to hear. but why cant they understand that there are people out there that can help by listening to scanners. example. If a child was abducted or missing and someone saw the description of the vehicle or individual. there is not enough cops out there to locate the suspect. yes i know that there are people that get carried away and try to be the hero, but the extra set of eyes can help a heck of alot faster than an AMBER ALERT. right. THIS WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE. The agencies have a MDT system that transmits the calls also via message system to computers in the vehicles. if its so secret than send it in this manner. I understood that the reason it was dipatched via the airwaves was so that the call was recorded for possible evidence that the call was even dispatched to an officer. Just in case an attorney questions the reliability of dispatchers timing on sending out the dispatch. SORRY FOR THE LENGTH I WAS JUST VENTING.
 
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dunatre1

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I agree with what you posted 100%, I was just sharing my experience with the Telegram. You have to get to a different source of media to do any good. My wife is an ex county employee and has evidence of department heads breaking the labor laws as well as filling thier personal vehicles on vacation with the county credit cards, all documents in black & white, but the Telegram will not even print a letter about it on the opinion page let alone do an investigative article. If the sheriff has decided to end encrytion that is great! it is definently a change in a good direction, I hope the chief of police re-considers as well. When do they plan to end encryption?
 

KAA951

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Garden City, Kansas uses encryption to stop listeners

Garden City, Kan. -- Citizens with older model scanners in their homes may have noticed a dead silence late in 2009 when the Federal Communications Commission mandated an upgrade in standards.

Alva Review/Courier
 
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KCoax

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Encrypting doesn't just keep the citizenry in the dark it also makes the LEO working in the adjacent cities in the dark. Ain't no way a city is going to buy radios from another city so their LEO can have it running in the back ground with coast to coast am. LEO using scanners pick up on adjacent cities traffic coming into their city all the time in the metro. Encrypt routine traffic and that will stop. Build a wall around your city like this and might as well have a bad guy only traffic lane.
 

iamhere300

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Well that sucks... EMS I can understand due to HIPPA compliance but what are they scared of?

People really misunderstand HIPAA, as evidenced by how many people don't even know what to
call it.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) applies to health care agencies that
electronically bill. Unfortunately due to so many agencies lack of knowledge of the act, they have gone
far overboard in their interpetation of the rules.

A really good read, that specifically addresses the encryption for HIPAA is found at,

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/Top-EMS-News/FAQs-for-HIPAA-Compliance-/1$151
 

rabidmoose57

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The ballot box is a powerful weapon.....

Perhaps it is time to rise up and clean house in Garden City and Finney county as well. The people can send a powerful message about who actually runs what. It's called a vote. The people have to assert thier God given rights or they get walked on, just like this.While scanning isn't a "right", at least not yet, the public must have a right to know, a right to be informed. "Secret Police" cannot be allowed, not in any form.
 

n0lqt

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Hipaa

Actually HIPAA applies not just to billing. It applies to ANYONE who has access to protected health information. The US Office of Civil Rights under the Department of Health and Human Services, the agency tasked with the enforcement of HIPAA, defines protected healh information: "The Privacy Rule protects all "individually identifiable health information" held or transmitted by a covered entity or its business associate, in any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral." But it also allows for the transmission of that protected information. It also limits the scope of who is restricted by HIPAA.

One of the "grey" areas right now is EMS dispatch. Does paging out an ambulance to such and such address constiute a violation of HIPAA? Probably not. Does a dispatcher then giving a call summary to responding units like; "Units on the call, you are responding to the report of a 49 year old female with two gun shots to the leg. LEO are on scene." Taken in conjuction with the page out, possibly, but so far they would be covered by the treatment exceptions. The last point is where they are getting into the grey area, "minimum necessary disclosure." That is why some EMS agencies are choosing to encrypt this info to avoid the grey area and possible liability. But even encryption may not protect them from the "miniimum necessary" rule. Far more reasonable are the agencies that use MDT technology to send the required protected information directly to the display terminal in the responding unit and ONLY the responding unit.
 

eaf1956

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I have to agree with the 1st posted comment by a LEO of 15 years. I think he knows the reasons. But the only thing the link brings up here is 2 comments. Where is the article?
 

iamhere300

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No, you did not read. Of course it applies to more than billing, BUT, in order for a health care provider to be a covered entity, in HHS's own words, you have to electronically bill. Now, everyone who bills any government health care plan, such as medicare, and medicaid, must bill electronically now, so they are covered entities.

From Are You a Covered Entity? HIPAA - General Information

"The Administrative Simplification standards adopted by Health and Human Services (HHS) under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) apply to any entity that is

a health care provider that conducts certain transactions in electronic form (called here a "covered health care provider").
a health care clearinghouse.
a health plan.
An entity that is one or more of these types of entities is referred to as a "covered entity" in the Administrative Simplification regulations."

Dispatch - while everything has a "grey area" coming from the "anyone can sue anyone anytime" thought, HHS and the major EMS information providers have all had many legal talking heads state that there are basically two forms of dispatch - one by the agency that would be covered, and one by a entity other than the covered entity such as a 911 center, or city dispatch dispatching a seperate entity that it actually the EMS agency. In one case it is a covered entity - in the other it is not.

While considering this, each group has stated that no matter which form of dispatch, reasonable common sense should be used - name and nature of call is perfectly acceptable IF it is needed to get the units to the scene and provide them with safety information related to that call.
 

radioman2001

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Not being local to that area it's hard to do much about it. I read that there was some discussion in the local papers about it, and those people who are against encryption for day to day traffic should approach the Local Government and see what can be resolved. The other route is lawsuit, but I doubt there is much an individual can do. When it is time for re-election of the local's pressure could be applied if enough are concerned about it to say something. The police are governed by the local government, if they choose to not comply with a law full order from them, then you get into a real mess, but I think this may be necessary to show the police that they don't run the government, the people do.
My analogy is that if you don't like the way your job is being run or you don't feel safe in it, then go find another job. You don't tell the boss (the people) how to run his (their) business.

BTW This is what's happening in Stamford,CT right now. The new Mayor ran on a platform of turning off encryption for all Stamford agencies. Let's see how well he does, or if the police bully him into backing down.
 
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