I do believe you might just be correct about site 23... I somehow missed that license when I was going through the Mobile Communications Inc. licenses. The signal was just about the right strength while coming through Greensboro to be coming from there.
NC Fleet Talk
- Thread starter KG4KHQ
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I can confirm from my findings that there are in fact 6.25 kHz channels in use. I’ve seen it locally. So your .475 may very well be .48125. So if you have a license that’s that close then I’d go with it.
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Keep in mind, since this system uses 6.25 kHz channels you can essentially use either side of a 12.5 kHz channel that is licensed. Also based on the band plan being in 12.5 kHz steps, you cannot factor in 6.25 kHz channels unless it were added at the end (which I don't believe is the case).
Licensing 461.48125 would allow for use of 461.4750 & 461.4875.
461.4750 = LCN 519
461.4875 = LCN 520
You can't have an LCN of 519.5, so when searching FCC licenses be mindful to look 6.25 kHz up and down from the frequency in question.
I've got a few sites nailed down in my travels between Asheville & Raleigh over the last few months. I need to mull over this thread and look at the wiki to see what works and doesn't based on other's findings.
There are for sure multiple linked systems. I need to reach out and see if there is a way to consolidate systems in the database to avoid confusion. Sadly since the radios are clueless to the different networks and there are no RFSS or sub systems built into the standard there really isn't a way to differentiate on paper but it seems like it will be a struggle to update multiple different systems with talkgroups as time goes on and this system is mapped out better. My understanding is there is a SC system, a NC system, a coastal system, and what I'm assuming would be a northern NC/VA system. Not to mention the systems in GA & FL. It's a mess to be sure.
Licensing 461.48125 would allow for use of 461.4750 & 461.4875.
461.4750 = LCN 519
461.4875 = LCN 520
You can't have an LCN of 519.5, so when searching FCC licenses be mindful to look 6.25 kHz up and down from the frequency in question.
I've got a few sites nailed down in my travels between Asheville & Raleigh over the last few months. I need to mull over this thread and look at the wiki to see what works and doesn't based on other's findings.
There are for sure multiple linked systems. I need to reach out and see if there is a way to consolidate systems in the database to avoid confusion. Sadly since the radios are clueless to the different networks and there are no RFSS or sub systems built into the standard there really isn't a way to differentiate on paper but it seems like it will be a struggle to update multiple different systems with talkgroups as time goes on and this system is mapped out better. My understanding is there is a SC system, a NC system, a coastal system, and what I'm assuming would be a northern NC/VA system. Not to mention the systems in GA & FL. It's a mess to be sure.
What site and what was the LCN for the 6.25 kHz frequency? Anything below LCN 800 should be 12.5 kHz spaced channels only.
SC system. Chester site #21. The channel number is 144 (451.7875) but the frequency is actually 451.79375. I have confirmed when I put it in the database.
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Here's my idea. Since it's unlikely the structure of the database will get changed for just this one system. The "219" system can get combined into one system. But we create 3 digit site numbers. Scanners won't care since they don't use the actual site numbers to my knowledge. We can do something similar to 1XX for one system's sites, 2XX for another etc. This way it can all be in the database under one system since the talk groups can carry over. And I can put the details of which "prefix" represents which system. That's my idea but we will have to be detailed so that if other admins who aren't familiar with this system can easily enter any data that is submitted.
Sounds like a good idea @Phillipsc84. Hopefully that will work!
Here is a map I created of all of the known L219 fleet talk sites. Hopefully it will help in identifying some gaps: Fleet Talk Known Sites - Google My Maps Some locations are approximate, but most are exact. Yellow pins are sites that I am not sure of which network they are on. Corrections are welcomed!
FYI, the South Carolina Fleet talk has a max of three sites that are yet to be identified.
And here is the known sites with Fleet Talk's official "coverage map" overlaid on top. Hopefully this will help identify some possible locations for the remaining unknown sites:
Also, I noticed that Whitehead and Green Mountain *should* be one in the same? I am just about sure Green Mountain is site 9, so there may be another site 1 in the "Northern" network floating around somewhere. I'll work on double checking and confirming this.
Here is a map I created of all of the known L219 fleet talk sites. Hopefully it will help in identifying some gaps: Fleet Talk Known Sites - Google My Maps Some locations are approximate, but most are exact. Yellow pins are sites that I am not sure of which network they are on. Corrections are welcomed!
FYI, the South Carolina Fleet talk has a max of three sites that are yet to be identified.
And here is the known sites with Fleet Talk's official "coverage map" overlaid on top. Hopefully this will help identify some possible locations for the remaining unknown sites:
Also, I noticed that Whitehead and Green Mountain *should* be one in the same? I am just about sure Green Mountain is site 9, so there may be another site 1 in the "Northern" network floating around somewhere. I'll work on double checking and confirming this.
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I appreciate all the effort being put into mapping out this system.
FWIW, here's a thread I started not too long ago regarding the SC Fleettalk system. I think we deteremined that there are at least 2 networked systems using the 219 system ID in South Carolina as well. I found several duplicate sites in my travels up and down I-26 back in December. Not sure if some of those sites might be associated with one or more sites in Georgia.
https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/sc-fleettalk-nxdn-system.381416/
I too agree that it's probably best to combine all of these systems into a single system for the simple fact that talkgroups are consistent among them. If Chester Co EMS and Fairfield Co Fire are being carried on a site near Raleigh, it would be nearly impossible to maintain that across multiple sites. I like the idea of using different x00 "prefixes" to the site IDs. And I'm not sure it really matters that we get each site associated with their "own" system's group of sites. So if we wanted to move the Newport site to the SC system prefix, for example, that's probably okay.
FWIW, here's a thread I started not too long ago regarding the SC Fleettalk system. I think we deteremined that there are at least 2 networked systems using the 219 system ID in South Carolina as well. I found several duplicate sites in my travels up and down I-26 back in December. Not sure if some of those sites might be associated with one or more sites in Georgia.
https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/sc-fleettalk-nxdn-system.381416/
I too agree that it's probably best to combine all of these systems into a single system for the simple fact that talkgroups are consistent among them. If Chester Co EMS and Fairfield Co Fire are being carried on a site near Raleigh, it would be nearly impossible to maintain that across multiple sites. I like the idea of using different x00 "prefixes" to the site IDs. And I'm not sure it really matters that we get each site associated with their "own" system's group of sites. So if we wanted to move the Newport site to the SC system prefix, for example, that's probably okay.
Ok, I did some "foxhunting" the last 2 days. Site #17 in the Triad is in High Point and I believe it to be at High Point Hospital. I programmed the CC frequency into a Home Patrol 2 conventionally and started driving from Midway in northern Davidson County after dinner last night. I drove from there to Thomasville. I would get a decent signal on the tops of ridges but would lose it in the valleys. I never got a full-strength signal the whole time. Today, I drove from Wallburg to Union Cross and then down I-74 to High Point, signal started getting stronger. I circled the city and came back up South Main St. to downtown where I started getting a full-strength signal. I brought a 436HP with me today that I had taken the antenna off of and I started getting full bars on that scanner parked in sight of the hospital, so I'm almost certain that's where it is located at.
After that, I programmed in Site #13 and headed for Greensboro. I started getting a good signal around Wendover / Guilford College. After a little bit a driving and using the 436 again, I was able to narrow it down to the Coliseum / UNC-G area but I could not figure out the exact tower that the site was on, there is like 3 in the area that it could be on. I might go back over sometime on the weekend when traffic is lighter.
Guilford County Schools are barely using the Fleet Talk system and almost all of their traffic is on their UHF conventional frequency. My theory is that the towers are being added for their coverage when they convert the whole system to Fleet Talk, so there may be other towers in Guilford popping up in the future.
After that, I programmed in Site #13 and headed for Greensboro. I started getting a good signal around Wendover / Guilford College. After a little bit a driving and using the 436 again, I was able to narrow it down to the Coliseum / UNC-G area but I could not figure out the exact tower that the site was on, there is like 3 in the area that it could be on. I might go back over sometime on the weekend when traffic is lighter.
Guilford County Schools are barely using the Fleet Talk system and almost all of their traffic is on their UHF conventional frequency. My theory is that the towers are being added for their coverage when they convert the whole system to Fleet Talk, so there may be other towers in Guilford popping up in the future.
Great catches! I really appreciate your efforts! The wiki and map have been updated to reflect these changes.
And yes, I did notice when driving thorugh there earlier in the week that Guilford Schools UHF was much more active than their Fleet Talk traffic. It may indeed be that the off-air site 5 may pop back up or maybe one of the "blank" sites.
And yes, I did notice when driving thorugh there earlier in the week that Guilford Schools UHF was much more active than their Fleet Talk traffic. It may indeed be that the off-air site 5 may pop back up or maybe one of the "blank" sites.
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If there’s any sites in Catawba or Lincoln County I’d be glad to help map out the sites & Talkgroup ID’s for you guys. I have DSD+ but I run multiple instances of UniTrunker daily on VIPER towers cuz I’m trying to map out Lincoln county’s new system since they just started using VIPER a few weeks ago. I’ve already found a slew of new talkgroups including several encrypted ones. I could always add 1 more SDR Dongle for another site if you just point me to where you need help at...
David
David
I've made some headway on what appears to be Virginia system site locations. I've logged over 10 sites with duplicate and triplicate site numbers that lean towards being a part of an additional system up around the Virginia state line down into Greensboro.
Pores Knob also does appear to be site 4, while not at the top of the knob, it is very close by, possibly further down the mountain or on an adjacent hill.
Pores Knob also does appear to be site 4, while not at the top of the knob, it is very close by, possibly further down the mountain or on an adjacent hill.
So I was wondering, do we have enough of the system mapped out to warrant going ahead and merging the L219 systems in the DB as suggested earlier? I know we don't have everything 100% figured out, be we have made a lot of progress over what is currently listed in the DB under the separate L219 systems.
The wiki page linked earlier in this thread as well as the map I created has what we have figured out thus far. Some sites we have the CC figured out, but not the voice frequencies. But adding them into the DB will hopefully get others started on finding the voice frequencies instead of having to dig through the wiki and the forums.
The wiki page linked earlier in this thread as well as the map I created has what we have figured out thus far. Some sites we have the CC figured out, but not the voice frequencies. But adding them into the DB will hopefully get others started on finding the voice frequencies instead of having to dig through the wiki and the forums.
I have begun moving all the data into one system. Just working through each site to get them moved.
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My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. Is Fleet Talk a simulcast system where all users can be heard in the regional coverage area (triangle/Traid or CLT metro system) ? Or does a radio have to affiliate similar to VIPER before you can hear traffic from a user not hitting a nearby/neighboring tower?
Another addition of monitoring notes. This time I scanned the UHF band while driving from northern Greensboro into Rockingham County.
New stuff noted:
451.7875 Site 001 - Very Weak in Northern Greensboro; between s1 and s3 throughout most of my drive through Rockingham County.
452.0125 Site 003 - Weak in Northern Greensboro; s1 throughout most of the County; s3 just east of Eden. Was still audible near the southern part of the pittsylvania/Halifax VA County line.
All this heard on a HT while mobile.
New stuff noted:
451.7875 Site 001 - Very Weak in Northern Greensboro; between s1 and s3 throughout most of my drive through Rockingham County.
452.0125 Site 003 - Weak in Northern Greensboro; s1 throughout most of the County; s3 just east of Eden. Was still audible near the southern part of the pittsylvania/Halifax VA County line.
All this heard on a HT while mobile.
OOPS! Disregard the site 001 I mentioned above! I misread and that’s part of NEXWAN!
Got a REAL fleet talk site 001 while coming into NC on I77 from Caroll County VA:
452.4625 - Very Weak about 7 mi north of Fancy Gap; s3-4 on my HT where I77 overlooks most of the triad just before the state line; full scale at the state line; Just barely audible WITHOUT the antenna in a few spots on I77 in the fancy gap/ Mt. Airy area; s5 (about full scale) at exit 100 and just still strong but dropping around exit 93; s1-s2 at I77/421 in Yadkinville County
Also got a site 12 (don’t think it is Saulisbury anymore lol):
461.4375 - s2 about 7 mi north of fancy gap; full scale one the tops of the hills around the fancy gap exit off of 77; s4-5 (full scale) at tHe overlooking spot just before the state line; s2 around exit 100 gone at exit 93; Just barely hearing it at I77/421
Got a REAL fleet talk site 001 while coming into NC on I77 from Caroll County VA:
452.4625 - Very Weak about 7 mi north of Fancy Gap; s3-4 on my HT where I77 overlooks most of the triad just before the state line; full scale at the state line; Just barely audible WITHOUT the antenna in a few spots on I77 in the fancy gap/ Mt. Airy area; s5 (about full scale) at exit 100 and just still strong but dropping around exit 93; s1-s2 at I77/421 in Yadkinville County
Also got a site 12 (don’t think it is Saulisbury anymore lol):
461.4375 - s2 about 7 mi north of fancy gap; full scale one the tops of the hills around the fancy gap exit off of 77; s4-5 (full scale) at tHe overlooking spot just before the state line; s2 around exit 100 gone at exit 93; Just barely hearing it at I77/421
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One last info dump 
I'm thinking that 461.4375 might actually be 461.43125 MHz. That matches a NXDN Fleet Talk license for a site in Fancy Gap VA which is where the signal peaked. I'm willing to bet that site 12 is this: ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked License - WQZA254 - MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS INC
A possible candidate for site 003 which center frequency may actually be 452.01875 is this Fleet Talk license out of Henry County, VA: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQZH287
Looking at the VA coverage, there should be at least one more site in VA going up I77.
I'm thinking that 461.4375 might actually be 461.43125 MHz. That matches a NXDN Fleet Talk license for a site in Fancy Gap VA which is where the signal peaked. I'm willing to bet that site 12 is this: ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked License - WQZA254 - MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS INC
A possible candidate for site 003 which center frequency may actually be 452.01875 is this Fleet Talk license out of Henry County, VA: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQZH287
Looking at the VA coverage, there should be at least one more site in VA going up I77.
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Found another site today... It is extremely weak at my location but I can get just enough signal to decode the site number:
Site 15 - 461.525 MHz. Matches this license for Lookout Mtn in Grayson County, VA (the center freq is actually .525 not the .53125 on the license... I've noticed that with the Virginia sites): https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQVJ713. Site 15 is listed as a neighbor on the Carroll County site with LCN 523 (which matches the 461.525 freq), so it all matches up.
If anyone that can monitor Moore and/or Montgomery Counties would check the frequencies on this license (https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQYX664) to see if you hear a NXDN control channel, that would be great. Even if you can't decode NXDN, but could listen and see if you hear a data stream on any of those frequencies.
Also, if anyone that can monitor Richmond County would check these frequencies (https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WRCA678) that would be fantastic. I have strong suspicion that those sites are some of the remaining undiscovered fleet talk sites.
Site 15 - 461.525 MHz. Matches this license for Lookout Mtn in Grayson County, VA (the center freq is actually .525 not the .53125 on the license... I've noticed that with the Virginia sites): https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQVJ713. Site 15 is listed as a neighbor on the Carroll County site with LCN 523 (which matches the 461.525 freq), so it all matches up.
If anyone that can monitor Moore and/or Montgomery Counties would check the frequencies on this license (https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQYX664) to see if you hear a NXDN control channel, that would be great. Even if you can't decode NXDN, but could listen and see if you hear a data stream on any of those frequencies.
Also, if anyone that can monitor Richmond County would check these frequencies (https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WRCA678) that would be fantastic. I have strong suspicion that those sites are some of the remaining undiscovered fleet talk sites.
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