Nexedge Coverage (Simulcast)

[LifeCare]

Are current radio system is a Kenwood Nexedge system with a NXR-710 as a main repeater and 5 NXR-710 voter sites deployed throughout our service area. Overall the radio system works great and has excellent portable coverage. I am currently experiencing in a new area of town were portable coverage inside of buildings does not exist. The end user can not hear radio traffic on portables once they step inside of a house or commercial building. The area is about 15 air miles away from the central repeater system. From my research I believe upgrading our current repeater to a NXR-5700 and adding a 2nd NXR-5700 repeater into this new area to give portable coverage inside buildings. I believe this will work, it's not a cheap solution, I was wondering if anyone has done simulcast with the Kenwood NXR-5700 and how the results were and also could simulcast work with NXR-710 repeaters?

Thanks,
Richard

 

[kd4efm]

simulcasting is a different animal.
Even with the 5700. It can be done, but stick with the 710.
I can get in depth, but not right now.

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[LifeCare]

If the 710's can do it.. I would like to hear more..

Thanks,
Richard

 

[EWC_BDN]

it would be helpful to know what portables you're using.

 

[LifeCare]

We are using a mix of NX-5200 and NX-200 K all set to transmit on High Power.

 

[buddrousa]

A county south of me is using a 7 site system each site is different frequencies the (Walkies and Mobiles) poll for the best signal and this works very well better than a true simulcast system where all 7 sites would use the same 2 frequencies. Your radio swaps sites depending on the strongest signal with out you doing anything. This would be the better way to go for all involved.

 

[danielxgame]

We are using a mix of NX-5200 and NX-200 K all set to transmit on High Power.[/QUOT

what is your system set up, is that trunking in nxr-710? or
maybe you can try KTI-3 network interface so your repeater will link each other in diff. location.

 

[LifeCare]

With a single repeater (NXR-710) that is networked in on KTI-3 boxes and all our voters have a KTI-3 box installed. We currently don't run trunking. From the sounds of this there is a better way to do this without simulcast..

 

[EWC_BDN]

ya this would just be another voter

 

[LifeCare]

I would like to thank everyone for there input on this matter. From the sounds of it I need to stay away from simulcast and go with NXDN Site roaming with IP connectivity between the two sites. With this being said I would need to buy a repeater, should I buy a NXR-5700 for the main repeater and move the NXR-710 to the new site will those two play well together or should I just stick with another NXR-710 so all the equipment is the same.

Also if go down the radio with site roaming my current 8 voter sites will they still work?

Thanks,
Richard

 

[LTR]

Can't you just do a conventional IP network? I believe this is what "buddrousa" was saying. Each site has a single repeater and frequency, the sites send out a beacon and the radios pick out the strongest signal to use. Everything is connected together through IP for a seamless system. This is different than trunking, as it is still a conventional system, and the NXR-710's can do this without upgrading to the NXR-5700's.

 

[danielxgame]

I would like to thank everyone for there input on this matter. From the sounds of it I need to stay away from simulcast and go with NXDN Site roaming with IP connectivity between the two sites. With this being said I would need to buy a repeater, should I buy a NXR-5700 for the main repeater and move the NXR-710 to the new site will those two play well together or should I just stick with another NXR-710 so all the equipment is the same.

Also if go down the radio with site roaming my current 8 voter sites will they still work?

Thanks,
Richard

if you can get still the nxr-710 and is working good why not to stay the system is easy for you to fix it, you dont know yet the 5k series, maybe theres a bug for the firmware and compatibility issue.. like buddrousa said they have a good system maybe they have a good set up in Network hunt in there site.
in our system we are using trunking digital link via internet so far so good we dont have issue both site even inside building our radio roam right away for the better signal.

 

[mmckenna]

if you can get still the nxr-710 and is working good why not to stay the system is easy for you to fix it, you dont know yet the 5k series, maybe theres a bug for the firmware and compatibility issue.. like buddrousa said they have a good system maybe they have a good set up in Network hunt in there site.
in our system we are using trunking digital link via internet so far so good we dont have issue both site even inside building our radio roam right away for the better signal.

NXR-710 is still available. It would be much cheaper than the NXR-5700.

You'll need the KTI-3 to do the Ethernet interface.

With the NXR-5700, it has the Ethernet interface built in. They are only capable of 25 watts, so adding in the cost of an amplifier if you need more will really make it more expensive.

 

[LifeCare]

If the NXR-710 are still available I will get one for the new site and that's a cheaper option. With bringing up a new site and connecting it to the network via KTI-3 interface and setting it up as NXDN site roaming with the main repeater. Will the current 8 voters that are currently installed throughout the county will they still work with the main repeater?

 

[mmckenna]

If the NXR-710 are still available I will get one for the new site and that's a cheaper option. With bringing up a new site and connecting it to the network via KTI-3 interface and setting it up as NXDN site roaming with the main repeater. Will the current 8 voters that are currently installed throughout the county will they still work with the main repeater?

Ideally you'd want to use something like a JPS SNV12 to do that. JPS makes IP adapters and cards that will do the network interface. You would then just need to interface to the repeater at each end.
SNV-12 Signal and Noise Voter Comparator receiver voting system

It's the right way to do this, especially if you have a bunch of remote receivers in the mix. Not sure what you are using now for your receive voter, but if it's a JPS-12, I'm pretty sure you can just update it with the IP card.

 

[LifeCare]

With our current voters they are NXR-710 repeaters set in voter mode and they have the KTI-3 box attached to them. From there the are network backed to the main repeater. The network that they are built on has redundant links and overall the system works well on voting.

 

[jnewman]

A county south of me is using a 7 site system each site is different frequencies the (Walkies and Mobiles) poll for the best signal and this works very well better than a true simulcast system where all 7 sites would use the same 2 frequencies. Your radio swaps sites depending on the strongest signal with out you doing anything. This would be the better way to go for all involved.

We are going to test a 3 site system, and we would greatly appreciate some suggestions in setting up the site roaming parameters...in particular the levels.

 

[kd4efm]

When you say system, trunk or conventional?


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[buddrousa]

I know Kenwood USA came in to help the dealer out in the setup

 

[domes]

This could be interesting. VHF is not the best band to use for in-building coverage but even so, 15 miles is a long way to expect reliable in-door coverage. I would first look at improving the main transmitter site. Going from 50 to 100 watts is only a 3dB improvement but perhaps in combination with antenna height, gain, and maybe even relocating to a higher, more central location might be the easiest fix.

I would not dismiss the idea of simulcast. The NXR-5700 repeaters are simulcast ready with built in hi-stability osc and necessary data phasing & sync. It just requires software to make it work. By the time you add the necessary oscillator and JPS hardware to your NXR710 you'll exceed the cost of the 5700. I'm assuming that your Rcvr system provides the required talk-back coverage and will incorporate into the 5700 simulcasting. Keep in mind that timing, phasing & synchronizing are critical in simulcasting and will require routine maintenance. You may also have to have some type of direct microwave link between TX sites because you can't rely on time thru internet. There are sone inexpensive, unlicensed solutions that can go 10-20 miles between sites. I would see what your dealer/kenwood work up.

The IP networking method using different base station TX freqs with one common RX freq thru your present voter sites should work also. Since the MO & FB freqs are licensed separately in VHF you should be able to use 1 common MO freq. It is not normally permitted to use un-matched pairs in UHF and above. You would broadcast simultaneously on 2 or more FB freqs but not the same thing as simulcast. In this case, the factory default roaming settings in the portables should work fine.