FCC Invites Comments on ARRL Technician Enhancement Proposal

Should U.S. amateur radio licensing (classes and privileges) be revamped?

  • Turn it all over to the military; let them decide how to administer hobby radio services.

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KE0GXN

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And maintaining a Tech license may very well work for Todd....however there are currently 385,288 licensed Technicians in the United States (give or take) and quite a few may indeed be interested in expanded HF privileges, which may lead them to upgrade or even better yet in the long run this petition may entice someone newly exposed to the hobby to get licensed to begin with.

What I don't understand is, whether RM 11868 gets approved or not it will not apparently affect him or those that are liked minded in any way, so......

I get his opinion about not wanting to be looked down upon for having no interest in operating on HF, plenty of Techs in my area that are satisfied with their Tech license and as far as I know nobody looks down upon them around here.....

Sounds like he needs to get some different Elmers or maybe find a new club and continue to rock on with his VHF/UHF operations or whatever radio operations he chooses to engage in (since he never really said what he does with his privileges.)

Oh and if you haven't already I would invite you to subscribe to KB6NU's podcast....great no nonsense dude (no pun intended;)) with some interesting guests and topics to listen to.
 
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AK9R

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I know a guy who was first licensed back in the 1970's (when Morse code was part of the testing requirements). He had passed 5 wpm code to get his Technician license and was still a Tech well into the 21st century. He was the smartest guy I knew when it came to VHF/UHF operation and repeater configuration and maintenance. When the code requirement for General and Extra were lifted, he easily passed those tests and upgraded. He's having a ball on HF now while still maintaining some of the most reliable repeaters in the area.

Nobody looked down on this guy while he was a Tech partially because he was good at what he did and partially because he did not openly covet the privileges that Generals and Extras had. If the higher class licencees did speak negatively of him because he was "only a Technician", he chose to ignore them and not associate with them.

We have a three-tiered license system in order to promote individual "advancement of the radio art". The Technician test is very easy for most people to pass. The General and Extra licenses are also achievable if you choose to expend the effort to learn the material. If you don't want to be bothered with upgrading, then you don't have access to the entire amateur radio spectrum. It's as simple as that and everybody should understand it when they begin their amateur radio career.

As the professor in The Paper Chase used to say, "you have to earn it" and studying and passing the General test in order to get expanded HF privileges seems to me like a reasonable demonstration of an amateur radio operator's true desire to advance themselves.
 

R0am3r

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And the irony is, it’s mostly 20 wpm Extras who get busted by the FCC for QRMing on the bands. :rolleyes:

And you have the proof that it's "mostly 20 wpm Extras who get busted by the FCC for QRMing..."? Oh c'mon, that is bull crap. I earned my Extra Class license back when 20 wpm was a requirement. In my 41 years as a licensed ham, I have never purposely QRMed any station and my only interaction with the FCC was when I passed my General Class test in 1979. Would you like to backup your post with some real facts?
 

KE0GXN

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Read or listen to the League’s newsletters....

Remember, I did not say all I said “mostly”.

My point was and is....after dropping the code,amateur radio was not ruined and I will surmise it will not be if this petition is approved.

Like I said, we can with talk just each other till the day we die and the hobby can die with us, or we can continue to find ways to grow it into the future. You have your opinions and I have mine on the current RM proposed by the League.

We’ll see what happens.
 
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zz0468

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It used to be that the Extra license signified advanced technical knowledge and skills. It was almost as difficult a test as the commercial radiotelephone licenses. The 'first phone' was qualification sufficient to gain employment as a broadcast station's chief engineer.

I'd like to see the Extra regain that status, based on technical merit. Yes, the code is obsolete, but modern technology isn't. Questions on SDR, ROIP, and other modern technologies would be appropriate.

Back when the Extra meant something special, the Technician license also was special, in its way. It conveyed the same privileges above 50 MHz that the Extra did, and many of the pioneers of VHF, UHF, repeaters, microwave, and moonbounce held Technician licenses.

An entry level license is still very much needed, and the privileges conveyed should be just enough to whet one's appetite, but not so much as to devalue the higher level licenses.

Instead of just giving them privileges for the sake of giving them, perhaps it's time to just have a major overhaul of the tests. People aren't upgrading to General or Extra, because quite frankly, the information on the tests is completely asinine. That's coming from an Extra. The material is stupid. Nobody really needs to know probably 95% of what's on the test. Change the test to FCC rules and operating practices and I bet we would see a ton of people upgrade. But of course, that will just further infuriate the old crusy hams who still think you should know Morse Code to progress. Too bad. Get over it.

It's time to move on. It's almost 2020, not 1920.
 

alcahuete

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I'd like to see the Extra regain that status, based on technical merit. Yes, the code is obsolete, but modern technology isn't. Questions on SDR, ROIP, and other modern technologies would be appropriate.

But why? Why should someone need to be some technical elite to get an Extra? 20 years ago, I could have easily fixed my radios, built radios, etc., and I did. I spent a lot of time tinkering. I spent a lot of time initially with CBs and crystal radios and everything else. Now, I'll just spend the $2000 and buy a new radio if something breaks. I have no desire to keep up with the inner workings of any of those items you mention, nor do I have the time.

And this is perhaps what I love most about our hobby. You're more than welcome as an individual to get into those things as much...or as little as you like. At least that should be the case. It should be based on individual desires, not some mandatory testing. We have people pushing for technical elitism for the higher class licenses, and there are perhaps as many people pushing against it.

Me? As I mentioned, I say do away with all of it. Make the test structured toward rules and regulations, operating practices and principles, privileges, etc. Don't know what every component in a circuit diagram does? I'm fine with that. We are killing our hobby by requiring people to test on information that simply is not important or relevant anymore.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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This is a link to a blog that a ham from Ann Arbor Michigan runs. Check out the 7th comment made by a guy named Todd. It is so right on, as far as my opinion in this matter:

FCC looking for comments on proposal to enhance Tech priveleges - KB6NU's Ham Radio Blog

He is pretty much right on. I belonged to a ham club that had a VEC who was hassling certain tech's to "upgrade" . One day one of those techs pretty much quit the club and the hobby that very night over being harassed about upgrade. Much drama!

You can do a lot with tech privileges 6 meters and higher and have a lot of satisfaction in the hobby. If I upgrade to general, it is solely because I feel I would like some HF phone privileges, not because some unmet need to "better myself". The general test pool is not really that difficult. As far as CW, I would have been a ham 30 years sooner, but never had an ear or fist for it. I am likewise musically challenged having been traumatized to learn trombone when I would have wanted to play accordion. No place for accordion players in band I was told. - Well screw them!
 

zz0468

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But why? Why should someone need to be some technical elite to get an Extra?

Part 97.1 states the basis and purpose for the existence of the Amateur Service. Several paragraphs in 97.1 include reference to advancing the radio state of the art, advancing technical skills, and creating a pool of technicians and electronics experts.

So, in keeping with the letter of Part 97, there is an indelible link to technical skill. The Amateur Service is not just radio operators. It's radio operators and technical experts. The Advanced and Extra Class licenses always provided the incentive for advancing one's technical skills.

It seems to be that the General class license is sufficient for the 'operator' types who aren't interested in the technical aspect of the hobby. Include enough technical matter in the test to insure compliance with the technical aspects of the rules, i.e. band edges, ERP and mode limitations, etc.

Me? As I mentioned, I say do away with all of it. Make the test structured toward rules and regulations, operating practices and principles, privileges, etc. Don't know what every component in a circuit diagram does? I'm fine with that. We are killing our hobby by requiring people to test on information that simply is not important or relevant anymore.

I don't think that's what's killing the hobby. I agree, the test should be relevant, but considering that, per Part 97.1, there are three basic reasons that the Amateur Service exists, trained operators, trained technicians, and the international goodwill amateurs provide, it seems wrong to me to completely ignore one of them, just because some aren't interested in that part of the hobby. The rules reflect the purpose of the service, the license structure should, too. Don't want to get too technical? Stop at General. No one should think less of those who choose to do that.
 
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alcahuete

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Part 97.1 states the basis and purpose for the existence of the Amateur Service. Several paragraphs in 97.1 include reference to advancing the radio state of the art, advancing technical skills, and creating a pool of technicians and electronics experts. So, in keeping with the letter of Part 97, there is an indelible link to technical skill.

Absolutely, and I don't disagree with any of that. But as I said, it should really be up to the individual operator to decide how far they want to delve in to those things. There is a place for operators who simply want to buy a HF rig, a $100 pre-built vertical, and get on the air. And I personally don't care whether or not that person can calculate the voltage at Point D in an audio amplifier circuit. Don't care in the slightest. There is a place for that person in our hobby as much as there someone who wants to print a circuit board and build a HF radio from scratch.

I don't think that's what's killing the hobby.

There are many other things killing the hobby as well, no doubt, but not really in the spirit of this particular thread. But it absolutely is killing the hobby in regards to people upgrading and expanding their operating abilities. I talk to these folks all the time at various gatherings, Field Day, club meetings, etc. The majority of the questions we ask on the test damn near require an EE degree to truly understand. We ask questions that go WAY beyond simple technical skill.

Don't want to get too technical? Stop at General. No one should think less of those who choose to do that.

I'm okay with that too, except that we tie operating privileges into that additional expertise. We are still saying that if you want all the operating privileges on the bands, you need to be some technical elite. And that's the wrong attitude, IMO. If you want to get an Extra to show that you're super technically inclined, great! But don't tie privileges into it.

Why would you have to be a technical elite to operate HF, for example, vs. VHF, UHF, Satellite Ops, etc.? Doesn't make a lot of sense. I have a good co-worker friend who is a Space Operations Officer with the US Air Force, and several other friends who work at NASA/JPL. They would contest that you were absolutely 100% out of your mind if you said that it requires more technical and electronics knowledge to operate HF vs. satellite ops, for example. Yet we continue to tie this elite knowledge in with HF operation. Why?

The reason I am opposed to this bill is not because of the additional privilege it provides, rather because it does not address the complete overhaul of the system that is needed. Once a re-write of all the tests are completed, I would like to see the following privileges:

Technician - Current General privileges
General - Current Extra Privileges
Extra - Nothing additional except bragging rights that you're some sort of electronics elitist.
 

alcahuete

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I would accept that as long as there was an output power limit for Technician. Let's say, 100 watts.

I don't even know that I could agree to that, to be honest, though I might be able to be persuaded. I know some other countries use that method.

I guess my biggest question is...why any limitations at all? Why do we, as a group of hobbyists, want to place all sorts of restrictions and limitations on new members instead of letting them enjoy the hobby to the full potential? The idea behind giving HF privileges to the Tech licencees was to give them a taste of HF. Well why not just give them the whole thing? Why just a taste? To get them to take another test? Surely the ARRL and the $15 test fees can't be the driving factor behind that. But if not, I'm not sure I understand what the driving factor is. And if that's not enough, we force these lesser folks to use CW on HF! We don't even give them phone privileges outside of 10m. Why the heck is that? Just one more thing to hold over their heads? If you want to use a microphone, you shall upgrade!!!! Silly. Hell, we should limit them to straight keys as well while we're at it. Why not? It's as arbitrary as any of the other silly limitations.

Quite frankly, we could get away with 1 license class....well 2, because the uber elitists are still requesting their higher class license to show that they can calculate voltages and capacitance using nothing more than scratch paper and a standard calculator (with the memories cleared, of course). But I really just don't see the need for all these different licenses. I can't for the life of me understand why all these restrictions are needed.
 

AK9R

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Do we want newly-licensed people operating stations at maximum power on all bands?

Do we feel that newly-licensed people are qualified to operate a station at maximum power on all bands? Obviously, some are and some aren't. How do we sort out that conundrum unless we impose a power limit for the entry-level license?

And, yes, I believe that the FCC would be OK with one license class.

The exam fee is not a valid argument, in my opinion, since we have some VE teams who aren't charging anything for exams.
 

alcahuete

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Do we want newly-licensed people operating stations at maximum power on all bands?

Yes! We sure do!

Do we feel that newly-licensed people are qualified to operate a station at maximum power on all bands? Obviously, some are and some aren't. How do we sort out that conundrum unless we impose a power limit for the entry-level license?

How does a multiple choice test determine if someone is qualified to operate a station at maximum power? That's silly. When I was taking my Extra, there was someone taking the Technician exam who also took and passed the General exam. Didn't study a single minute for the General, but just happened to guess right, and apply some of the knowledge from one to the next.

You could test all the way to Extra having never operated a radio in your life.

The exam fee is not a valid argument, in my opinion, since we have some VE teams who aren't charging anything for exams.

Right. That's why I said I can't see that as being the driving force behind all these licenses classes. At the same time, I can't figure out what is.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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There is. Technician class HF has a 200 watt limit.

Ok, 200 W PEP, 10 M and below, but not "100 watts" as suggested. And in VHF 6 M and above there is no restriction on Tech power levels. I have not operated below 6M so, my HF recollection is rusty.
 

cmdrwill

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How does a multiple choice test determine if someone is qualified to operate a station at maximum power?

A multi choice 'test' ... it does not really TEST an operator at all. You do not get a drivers license with a drivers test....

So I HAVE to agree, the so-called Ham test does not test how anyone can or does operate a Ham station.
 

zz0468

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There is a place for operators who simply want to buy a HF rig, a $100 pre-built vertical, and get on the air. And I personally don't care whether or not that person can calculate the voltage at Point D in an audio amplifier circuit. Don't care in the slightest.

I agree, there should be a place for people like that. There should be, and there is, even though amateur radio is inherently a technical hobby. Even those with zero technical ability are using the technology developed by others.

The majority of the questions we ask on the test damn near require an EE degree to truly understand.

And it would take a PhD in Quantum Physics and another in Mathematics to truly understand what's happening inside your cellphone, what with the precision timing and frequency references required, and the encryption algorithms at work. But it doesn't take an EE to understand the basic algebra in Ohm's Law, or to have a superficial understanding of electricity. And some understanding is required to fully utilize the amateur service in the way it is intended.

We ask questions that go WAY beyond simple technical skill.

I'm not trying to be flip, but... so what? One of the stated purposes of the service is to develop technical skills. No matter how you look at it, this is a specialized activity with limited appeal. One purpose not stated or intended is to have unlimited appeal to all segments of the population.

I'm okay with that too, except that we tie operating privileges into that additional expertise. We are still saying that if you want all the operating privileges on the bands, you need to be some technical elite. And that's the wrong attitude, IMO.

I guess I don't understand why this is a problem? With very modest technical understanding, one gets to operate in portions of every single amateur band. There exists an easy entry level for those wanting simple channelized local communications. There's nothing to adjust on the radio, and of one sticks with true amateur gear, almost no potential to interfere outside the band edges.

HF carries greater responsibility. The interference potential is greater, as there are various regions around the world with different band edges. One must know one's equipment, and ones ITU region, to avoid making even stock amateur gear potentially violate the band edges and interfere with another service. Some bands are shared with other services.

There are pragmatic reasons why the various license classes evolved, many of which still exist, enshrined in international law.

Why would you have to be a technical elite to operate HF, for example, vs. VHF, UHF, Satellite Ops, etc.? Doesn't make a lot of sense...

...Why?

A few examples of why technical and regulatory knowledge is required...

160 meters, shared with radiolocation.

60 meters is shared with other services. Strict ERP limitations are in place, requiring the ability to calculate ERP from TX power and antenna gain.

7200-7300 shared with broadcasting. 7.0 - 7.3 is not fully available to amateurs in all regions. A US amateur in international waters in ITU region 1 is not allowed 7.2 - 7.3 MHz, for example. Lower portions of 40 meters are internationally allocated to CW only.

30 meters is shared spectrum. No voice.

Some of the upper HF bands have beacon subbands codified into the allocations.

Propagation conditions that constantly vary, influencing required frequencies and power levels. "Skip zones" can be areas where participants in a QSO may not be heard to a specific operator, and one can come up on what appears to be a clear frequency, call CQ, and completely wipe out a QSO elsewhere.

Radios are necessarily more complex, and can require technical skill to properly operate. High power requires dangerous voltages and currents. Tube amplifiers require manual adjustment, requiring understanding of vacuum tube principles.

So, that's just off the top of my head. The point being, operating HF is somewhat more involved than selecting a memory channel in a radio, and pushing the PTT button. If one is to be effective on HF, one must have knowledge of propagation, and some familiarity with different international regulations.

Extra - Nothing additional except bragging rights that you're some sort of electronics elitist.

Your use of the word "elitist" denotes some sort of emotional involvement, IMO. I'm curious why you choose to use it in this context? In my mind, the term "elite" denotes something that is unattainable by most, or represents class conflict. In reality, the Extra class license is quite attainable by anyone suitably interested in the material. Those who are not, are unlikely to be attracted to the modest increase in privileges, typically the CW only lower 25 KHz of the non-WARC bands, plus a sliver of 75 and 20 meters.

But this brings me full circle, with Amateur radio being an inherently technical endeavor. Why not a few extra slivers for those who are inherently technical? Look at the ARRL bandplans and see where the HF amateur spectrum is REALLY locked up. It's not with the Extras, it's with the Advanced, a class of license that isn't even being issued anymore.

THAT is a better fit for the term "elite".

My suggestion of any re-write of amateur privileges would be more like this:

Technican - Unchanged.

General - Merge with Advanced privileges, keep the General test.

Extra - Unchanged.
 

alcahuete

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Your use of the word "elitist" denotes some sort of emotional involvement, IMO.

No emotional involvement at all. I'm one of those "elites" you describe. But the description in your previous post does come off as elitist to me. You describe a class of license with immense electronics knowledge, etc., that most people will never attain. Everyone else who doesn't attain that knowledge must stay out of your portion of the band and never get the top license. That's an elitist attitude. The top tier in our hobby should be attainable by all. There's absolutely no reason it shouldn't be.

Really, you have made my point for me. The majority of things you list above, from international law to band plans to shared frequencies have absolutely nothing to do with technical knowledge, and everything to do with regulatory knowledge. Sure, you could argue that the radio has to be tuned properly to avoid interference, tube amps (which probably 80-90% of the ham world will never use) need to be tuned, etc., but it all comes down to regulations.

That is exactly why I suggest the exams should focus on rules and regulations and way less on electronics theory. I'm not suggesting getting rid of the electronics theory entirely. There are some items that absolutely should be known. But out of the 700+ questions on the Extra exam, for example, I bet I could eliminate at least 550-600 as useless way over-the-top information that the average ham should never have to know.
 
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