FCC Invites Comments on ARRL Technician Enhancement Proposal

[AB4BF]

Instead of a three tier licensing system that we currently have, why not one comprehensive amateur license that has two hundred questions, 80% to pass, $50 for each test and when you pass you have everything.

I believe candidates would put a lot more effort in learning the testing. I also believe the candidates would learn way more than they do now about Amateur Radio. I'm sure some of the old timers would frown on this, too, but I believe it would make for better amateur radio operators in this day and age.

What ya' think?

 

[nd5y]

why not one comprehensive amateur license that has two hundred questions, 80% to pass, $50 for each test and when you pass you have everything.

I don't understand that part. Are you saying there would be only one test and if you fail it you have to pay to take it again and again until you pass?

 

[KE0GXN]

That can get pricey. I know a guy in my club who to take his General three times before he passed....

 

[n5ims]

Instead of a three tier licensing system that we currently have, why not one comprehensive amateur license that has two hundred questions, 80% to pass, $50 for each test and when you pass you have everything.

I believe candidates would put a lot more effort in learning the testing. I also believe the candidates would learn way more than they do now about Amateur Radio. I'm sure some of the old timers would frown on this, too, but I believe it would make for better amateur radio operators in this day and age.

What ya' think?

I think that this method would nearly eliminate ham radio as a hobby because the barrier to entry would be so high. There would be fewer and fewer new hams entering the hobby so the existing spectrum would be looked at harder and harder as available space for other users needing spectrum so eventually there would be no real space for those extremely qualified ham operators to use.

How about we do the same thing for our education system, change that from a three tier system to a comprehensive system that guarantees that those with a degree are very well qualified and quickly find a job. We could eliminate those BS and MS degrees and only award the PHDs so a college degree would actually count for something. Then folks could either work at McDonald's or have a high paying job in research using their PHD (and really needing the high salary to pay off those hefty student loans).

 

[Otto]

RM-11828 is a terrible idea. The HF bands are already crowded and we really don't need a sudden influx of additional operators in the same spectrum. The current licensing system with the allocation of spectrum usage works quite well, so why tinker with it. As a life member of the ARRL I disagree with this proposal.

They are? I’m looking at my radio’s waterfall right now on 7 MHz. I see one SSB QSO, some stuff in the FT-8 area and two CW QSOs. There is plenty of room.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mmckenna]

It's been interesting to read all the comments.

My opinion...
Amateur radio is dying a slow death. As was said earlier, too much of it is stuck on tradition. Traditions are good, but when they stand in the way of progress, they can be bad. "We do it this way because that's the way we've always done it" doesn't lead to advancing the art of radio. "I had to accomplish X, so everyone else has to accomplish X" just keeps us tied to a spot in time and makes it difficult to move forward.

Increased numbers of amateur licenses should not be confused with a thriving hobby. I've got two employees who have their tech licenses, but neither of them are active, and really not interested in being active. It was an accomplishment, but that was it.

I've been disappointed with the ARRL for years. They seem misguided, but that's probably a separate discussion.

From 97.1:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

-"Emergency communications" doesn't necessarily mean that duplicating public safety LMR systems is what amateur radio should be doing. Public safety has pretty robust LMR systems, and the days of a fragile single channel that was easily disrupted have mostly disappeared. What amateur radio needs to start considering is how we provide communications in an emergency to the general public, not being some form of public safety officers. ARRL seems to be misguided, in my opinion.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

- I'm not seeing this very often in the hobby. It's getting difficult to find cases where amateur radio is "advancing the radio art". Yeah, there's some, but so much of what I see is people buying off the shelf 2 way radios and getting on the air. Nothing at all wrong with that, but either amateur radio needs to take this part a bit more seriously, or maybe this whole section needs to be rewritten.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.

- This part seems useful, but the current license structure probably needs to be changed to reflect modern times. "Advancing skills" can be accomplished a number of ways. Redo the entire structure of the licensing can still accomplish this. Sticking to a structure that was designed 100 years ago probably needs to be looked at closely.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

- This part seems pretty good. I think "trained" is something that needs to be considered a bit differently. Maybe advancing by way of verified accomplishments would be a better approach. The license structure just leads to memorization of answers, and not necessarily "learning". My wife got her tech ticket through a "ham cram" session. She didn't learn much, other than how to cram answers into her short term memory and recall them when properly prompted by the question.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

- This is sort of tied to HF, but maybe I'm interpreting it differently than others will.

I'd be pretty happy seeing the amateur radio license structure completely redone. Move away from just memorization, and add more accomplishment based rewards. Multiple choice tests don't necessarily teach anyone much, but administering any other form of test would be a big challenge. Maybe a single license class would work, maybe it wouldn't. Maybe some other approach would work, too. Kind of like the drivers license analogy. Maybe the class structure needs to go, it certainly does drive some to a feeling of elitism, and that has been proven to drive people away.

Hanging around on this site I see a lot of people who get their amateur radio license, then run out and buy a BaoFeng and think they are either going to save society, or somehow fill the role as a public safety professional. ARRL seems to be encouraging this, and I'm not convinced it's the right path. I'd much rather see amateurs build out IP networks that the public can use in an emergency. That would be something useful and would be really helpful in a disaster.

 

[zz0468]

But the description in your previous post does come off as elitist to me. You describe a class of license with immense electronics knowledge, etc., that most people will never attain. Everyone else who doesn't attain that knowledge must stay out of your portion of the band and never get the top license. That's an elitist attitude.

I certainly do respect your opinion, but disagree with the notion that some level of elitism (if that's what we must call it) is necessarily a bad thing. I've always believed that extra effort towards some goal is deserving of some extra reward, as opposed to those who choose to expend a lesser effort. Considering that one of the prime stated purposes of the very existence of amateur radio is a means of creating a pool of self-trained electronics experts, I don't think a set of spectrum-based incentives are out of line. If that's elitism, then so be it. I'm an elitist. *shrug*

If one REALLY wants to to something to help ham radio, though, I don't think extensive changes to the entry level and "elitist" level licenses are where one should direct their efforts. As I previously mentioned, if one takes a look at the HF spectrum, which is the ONLY place the various license classes differ in operating privileges, you'll see that it's the now obsolete Advanced class that has the lions share of "elite" HF voice spectrum.

Extras get 25 KHz at the very bottom of the non-WARC bands, CW only, 100 KHz voice band on 75 meters, and 75 KHz on 20 meters. That's it. An argument can be made that that lower 25 KHz is of little value to most newcomers because it is CW only, by international law. The FCC couldn't change it if they wanted to. That's 175 KHz of voice bandwidth, and 100 KHz of CW only bandwidth. 275 KHz total.

Now let's see what the advanced class has over Generals...

75 meters - 100 KHz voice
40 meters - 75 KHz voice
20 meters - 50 KHz voice
15 meters - 50 KHz voice

That's 275 KHz of phone bandwidth taken out of contention by an ever shrinking class of Advanced licensees.

If you listen to the HF bands on a busy weekend, the point of demarcation where it gets quiet is the boundary between the General and Advanced voice spectrum. That lower 25 KHz can get pretty busy with CW signals.

The top tier in our hobby should be attainable by all. There's absolutely no reason it shouldn't be.

I'm of the opinion that it IS obtainable by all, as evidenced by the people who buy a study guide and, any radios unseen, sit the test and walk in with nothing, and walk out an Extra. That doesn't fit the definition of something that's inherently unattainable. You want it? Work for it.

But I think this whole discussion is really moot, if a desire to make amateur radio more relevant is the real goal. The focus here seems to be on HF, but that's not where modern telecommunications is going. There's very little innovation taking place on HF. The technology is mature, for the most part. It's fun, but sitting in the basement exchanging signal reports with someone in severely broken English has limited appeal. Where interest is growing is things like DMR, ROIP protocols, 802.11-like mesh networking on the microwave bands, and so on, all of which is completely unaffected by any "class conflict" on the HF bands.

Aside from the growing disparity with the Advanced class HF spectrum, I don't think there's anything else wrong to be fixed.

Want to grow the hobby? The ARRL needs to turn it's focus away from HF, and more towards the technology trends occurring on the microwave bands. Start programs at elementary schools and help them build a school repeater on 220 or some other lightly used band. Visit existing CERT groups and put on programs that show the folks that are already licensed that there's intelligent life outside of the land of the orange vests.

And if any of them want to join me on the lower 25 KHz of 80 and 20 meters, on 35 wpm CW, they're more than welcomed to.

 

[mmckenna]

Want to grow the hobby? The ARRL needs to turn it's focus away from HF, and more towards the technology trends occurring on the microwave bands.

ARRL jacking things up seems to be a common thread through many of these posts. Hmmm, I wonder if there's some truth to it?

 

[zz0468]

ARRL jacking things up seems to be a common thread through many of these posts. Hmmm, I wonder if there's some truth to it?

I think so, but I also think they know not what they do.

The ARRL consistently makes two major errors, in my estimation, on how they handle matters that affect amateur radio growth. The first one is their strong emphasis on HF operating, almost to the complete exclusion of anything above the 6 meter band. This is a 50 year old problem that hasn't gotten much better. Take a look at the VHF and Up column in QST. It's almost entirely about 6 meter openings. Little to nothing on the higher bands. This automatically will alienate the largest single segment of licensed amateurs - Technician class. Virtually all of the most innovative work being done in ham radio is above 1000 MHz, and the ARRL is virtually oblivious of most of it.

The other thing they do is have an emphasis on east coast (New England) operations. Contest rules have been written that favor East Coast hams, particularly in the VHF/UHF and up contests. Contest committee rulings unfavorable to west coast operations have been handed down, and much of what's done here in California on the upper bands is almost completely ignored. The joke around here for years was, if you wanted to complain, just write your Section manager at ARRL@eastoftheHudson.org. Different parts of the country do things differently, but that's not generally reflected in ARRL books and magazines.

I'm still a member, and always will be, but they're less than perfect in their approach. I personally know a number of past and current section manager / vice director types. They do listen to our opinions, but seem to run into brick walls in Newington. Alcahuete may have a very valid point with the "elitism" in that the ARRL appears to be run by a bunch of old guard Extras bent on protecting their 25 KHz cw slivers. I don't begrudge them that, but not at the expense of the other several thousand MHz of spectrum we have available to play with.

There are some really really neat things to do with ham radio. HF and CERT are not among the best.

 

[n5ims]

Increased numbers of amateur licenses should not be confused with a thriving hobby. I've got two employees who have their tech licenses, but neither of them are active, and really not interested in being active. It was an accomplishment, but that was it.

While I agree that raw numbers of licensed hams isn't the best indicator, it's what others look at to see if the ham bands are being "wasted" on freeloading hams when the spectrum could be auctioned off to the highest bidder. To keep the hobby we not only need to grow our numbers (even if much of the equipment is just stuck in a box waiting on a disaster so those with the dead batteries and how to use those radios is pretty much unknown to the operators that are hoping to save the world), we need a strong and respected organization to watch out for and promote our precious resources.

I'm not seeing this very often in the hobby. It's getting difficult to find cases where amateur radio is "advancing the radio art". Yeah, there's some, but so much of what I see is people buying off the shelf 2 way radios and getting on the air. Nothing at all wrong with that, but either amateur radio needs to take this part a bit more seriously, or maybe this whole section needs to be rewritten.

Perhaps you aren't looking at the whole picture. While it's a valid point that advances to the equipment itself isn't moving at the pace many hope, the advances in software is doing pretty well. Many of the new(ish) digital modes are allowing communication (as basic as it may be at this stage) worldwide despite the worst solar cycle in decades. This is because the designers are doing quite a good job "advancing the radio art" by picking out signals that are basically swamped by the noise floor. Many hams are using FT8 and other modes to qualify for their WAS (often several WAS awards on single bands) as well as their DXCC awards while others are not even trying because SSB and CW activity is quite low due to the "dead bands" (except when the bands open up magically during a contest).

Other teams are addressing the problem of pulling valid signals out of very congested frequencies (like large city/metro area APRS to name one) that just a few years ago many users would get more bad packets than valid ones from the QRM. While they are currently concentrating on APRS, the same technology (and most likely the same software TNC) will work on Winlink to help send messages during disasters (wait for it ...) "when all else fails" (sorry, but those with the dead battery radios in a box were expecting that phrase). It's a valid point that at this point, most of these packet advances are centered on VHF and UHF, they're not ignoring HF. One of the issues with HF Packet is the way out-of-date rule that limits it to 300 baud (something that may be addressed by moving from raw bits-per-second rules to a "whatever fits in the allowable channel bandwidth" based rules, which appears to be making progress, but way to slowly for many).

Some examples are (software only) Dire wolf (Dire Wolf - APRSWiki) and (hardware/software for the Raspberry Pi) Northwest Digital Draws (What is DRAWS).

 

[mmckenna]

we need a strong and respected organization to watch out for and promote our precious resources.

We do. I'd like ARRL to be it, but if they can't, we need something else. I gave up my membership/subscription for many of the reasons ZZ stated above. Not worth the money, in my opinion. I wasn't impressed with some of their actions back in the late 1990's and early 2000's. Again, my personal opinion.

Perhaps you aren't looking at the whole picture.

Probably not, wouldn't be the first time. However I'm not trying to do an exhaustive analysis, just making a few key points that interest me.

While it's a valid point that advances to the equipment itself isn't moving at the pace many hope, the advances in software is doing pretty well.

Software, great. APRS, FT8, sure. Good if you need to send a text message. Awesome if you are out in the bush and need to send some short messages or some location data. But none of that is impressive to non-amateurs/consumers. Pushing through a few baud to a few thousand baud isn't impressive. I can get BGAN terminals that will push ISDN speed to anywhere on the globe. Consumer SPOT devices will do what APRS can do on a nearly world wide basis for $99 + $15/month.
What we need is megabit speeds.
While it's pretty amazing what some of these modes can do, 300 baud is pretty much useless for doing much more than trading call signs and some basic info. Give me something where I can send a photo, medical info, something with some value in an emergency. Make that something I can toss up in an emergency to bridge 20 miles, 200 miles, 2000 miles.
Nothing wrong with slow speed data over HF when conditions suck, but it's not something thats really useful for most of society.

What amateur radio needs is something that pushes the limits in a way that is useful to society on a larger scale. The people that amateur radio needs to attract already have access to devices smaller than an HT that will give them multi-megabit speeds in most of the places they go. APRS and the like are considered "cute", but not very useful to most of society. Even public safety users are moving beyond 9600 data streams and basic AVL.

But, a good discussion. I'm a ham and I played with APRS for a while. If I had the time and space to do it right, FT8 always sounded pretty interesting. Messing around on the long wave bands always appealed to me.
Maybe when I retire...

 

[mmckenna]

...watch out for and promote our precious resources.

I'm gonna blaspheme here, so hang on...

"our precious resources" shouldn't be just the value of amateur radio frequencies to amateur radio operators. What I see ARRL doing is claiming it as a precious resource for amateur radio use only. Fine if you are a ham, but not very beneficial to anyone else. At some point, the BS flag is going to get raised.

I think the demand for that spectrum is going to keep growing, and unless amateurs find a way to use it effectively, it's going to be at risk.
And I wouldn't blame the FCC if they started yanking it. Setting aside a valuable resource for a small group of hobbyists that are not "really" putting it to effective use is kind of a waste (remember, I admitted that I'd be blaspheming here).

Maybe a risk of losing the 1.2GHz band to a cellular or broadband provider would be some good motivation.

Not only do amateurs need to find a way to use it effectively, it's going to help a whole lot if that also helps the larger non-amateur population.
I think one of the issues is amateurs look at their spectrum as their playground. That's probably going to get hard to justify at some point.

Maybe an entry level license is a good approach, set aside some channelized resources for people to use. Boost some interest while providing something useful.
Maybe change some rules to allow more bandwidth to be used for data, and not this baud level stuff, but full on megabit speeds.

Something is going to change at some point. My concern is that the ARRL is going to go into full-on hissy fit mode and just screw things up. Maybe a younger bunch of people in Newington would help. I do honestly think that the amateur radio "old guard" is causing a lot of these issues.

 

[AK9R]

The first one is their strong emphasis on HF operating, almost to the complete exclusion of anything above the 6 meter band. This is a 50 year old problem that hasn't gotten much better. Take a look at the VHF and Up column in QST. It's almost entirely about 6 meter openings. Little to nothing on the higher bands.

Is it possible that the person who writes that column receives very little input regarding activity above 6m? Is it possible that the focus of that column is VHF/UHF weak signal operating to the exclusion of FM, repeaters, digital voice, high-speed data?

Given that the product review section of QST often includes reviews of VHF/UHF FM equipment and other articles in past QSTs have covered digital voice modes, APRS, HSMM, and mesh networks, I think it's a bit extreme to use just the VHF and Up column as evidence of the ARRL's HF focus.

OTOH, I do tend to agree with you that there is an HF focus at the ARRL. I have noted their apparent long-term disdain for VHF/UHF repeater issues, their handling of the National Frequency Coordinators Council, which was a cat-herding effort doomed to failure, and the transfer of the Repeater Directory to RFinder as greater evidence of the HF focus at the ARRL. And, I say that as an ARRL Life Member.

Maybe a risk of losing the 1.2GHz band to a cellular or broadband provider would be some good motivation.

As some might say, "meh". We have one, count it, one 1.2 GHz repeater coordinated in the state of Indiana. While I suspect that there would be much hue and cry if the 1.2 GHz band was lost to amateur radio, my gut feeling is that the band is little-used in many parts of the country except during VHF/UHF contest weekends.

 

[spongella]

Enjoying all the comments both pro and con.

Technician licensees now represent a sizable amount of the ham population. The ARRL proposal sounds fine to me. I'd add phone privileges on 10 meters too.

As an Elmer (and old fogey ham who took his code/written test at FCC office in NYC) to a few new Techs I say these are fine folks and worthy of additional spectrum space.

 

[AK9R]

Maybe a younger bunch of people in Newington would help.

One other point. Last year, of the five division director elections around the country, four brand-new directors were elected. Several incumbents were voted out.

Among the things that have changed at the ARRL over the past 6 months is that the league's attorney and chief Washington lobbyist was fired and the ill-fated Amateur Radio Parity Act, which would have overruled private land contracts with regard to antennas and antenna support structures, was tabled.

I think things are changing at the ARRL, though the advancement may be a bit glacial.

 

[mmckenna]

One other point. Last year, of the five division director elections around the country, four brand-new directors were elected. Several incumbents were voted out.

Among the things that have changed at the ARRL over the past 6 months is that the league's attorney and chief Washington lobbyist was fired and the ill-fated Amateur Radio Parity Act, which would have overruled private land contracts with regard to antennas and antenna support structures, was tabled.

I think things are changing at the ARRL, though the advancement may be a bit glacial.

That's good to hear. Maybe I'll have to pick up a QST in a while and see how much it's changed.

 

[mmckenna]

As some might say, "meh". We have one, count it, one 1.2 GHz repeater coordinated in the state of Indiana. While I suspect that there would be much hue and cry if the 1.2 GHz band was lost to amateur radio, my gut feeling is that the band is little-used in many parts of the country except during VHF/UHF contest weekends.

Yeah, and 1.2GHz would be attractive to broadband use. I think back many years ago Icom was selling a 1.2GHz radio. I believe it would allow ISDN level speeds for data between radios. At least that was something relevant to modern use, but doesn't look like it took off.

A retied co-worker of mine is running a lot of mesh networking on amateur bands in the higher frequencies in his county. They've got a pretty good network set up with remote cameras, VoIP phones at critical locations, etc. They've used it a few times in large fires. That's the sort of stuff I love seeing amateurs do.

 

[alcahuete]

Good discussion all around. Great points by all!

I'm of the opinion that it IS obtainable by all, as evidenced by the people who buy a study guide and, any radios unseen, sit the test and walk in with nothing, and walk out an Extra. That doesn't fit the definition of something that's inherently unattainable. You want it? Work for it.

I don't necessarily disagree that it is attainable by all, but I still don't think you should have to have a EE degree to understand the questions and pass the test. Sure, you can just memorize the questions and answers (which I assure you is what plenty of people do), but then what's the point? I'd rather there be meaningful questions. We can agree to disagree.

The concentration on HF is an interesting one. I'm torn. There is something to be said for contacting people tens of thousands of miles away with nothing more than a radio and antenna. Sure, there are advances in digital modes, DMR and the like, but how is that any different from Skype? I know plenty of people who actually have a hotspot in their car wired into their cell phone. The only thing they are using their radio for is to communicate 2 feet to the hotspot that's sitting on the floor.

 

[KB4MSZ]

Overall, I'm not in favor of granting HF phone privileges to the Technician class license beyond the 10 meter allocation already in place. This will be especially true when the solar cycle gets back on the upswing and 10 meters becomes the amazing communication medium that it is when fully active.

However, my feelings on the matter may not reflect what is currently needed at this time. I look back at the effort I had to put into my licenses and the accomplishment that I enjoyed with each step. Having the Extra ticket affords a few small exclusive segments on 80, 20, and 15 meters. On two of these bands, 20 and 15 meters, the exclusive Extra allocation is only 25 KHz (when still considering the Advanced class).

In this vein, I would suggest that any additional HF phone privileges granted to the Technician class license be limited to the top 25 KHz of any new band so allocated. This puts lower HF phone operation into reach of the Technician class, provides experience with the propagation of these lower frequencies to non-code operators, but also will still provide a strong incentive for upgrading due to this segment soon becoming populated by such a large number of amateurs. I see no justification for allocating both new and more phone bandwidth to the Technician privileges on a given band than the minimum 25 KHz that is exclusive to what an Extra earns on 20 or 15 meters.

Under the above provisions I would be willing to give a thumbs up.

 

[kb7gjy]

Reading through the comments has been interesting both Pros and Cons. That being said...

Lets look at how this has been.

Who remembers the old Novice class and the changes that allowed novices to become a tech in the early to mid 80's? Instant upgrade, no test required.

Then there was the tech and Tech plus, (then the jokes of super tech, and the super elite tech that were sure to be around the corner)

The elimination of any new Advanced operators, no granting of additional privileges to current advanced operators.

The removal of the code requirements

I know many have stated that the extra class "shows" your technical knowledge, but if that were truly what it shows, then maybe Extras would be retested to show that they have maintained the level of technical knowledge, that would be one fast way to kill the hobby.

Having been a ham for many many moon, I have watched the changes both good and bad.

Maybe a time in license should also be looked at, if you really want to expand the people in the hobby, something similar to this

If you have been a Tech for one licensing period, you are upgraded to General automatically. The same for Generals, one licensing period automatically upgraded to Extra.
Yes, you could take a test and upgrade early if one wanted to.

I can say that in my case; all the tests I have passed (From novice up to my general class), projects I have worked on, radios I have built, repeater systems I have built and maintained, repeater site specifications I have wrote, and and and. I believe I have "shown" in just that aspect of the hobby I have vast knowledge.

Older extras were tested heavily on analog systems, while newer extras are tested more heavily of the digital aspects of the hobby.

Maybe extras should have to show that they have passed the most current Motorola R56 standard every 5 years to maintain that "elite" status (I use elite status as some have hinted at that is how it is viewed by many). What would that solve? Nothing, except turn ever discussion into a flame war.

Some of this may come across as whining and some of it is. Other parts are honest questions. I know I have gotten upset with testing for my next level, gaining that level, only to watch it be given to others a little while later (Or so it seems). That is why I stopped at general, I didn't go from zero to general, I spent "Time in grade" so to speak. I have the attitude that if I upgrade again, it will just be handed out to others after I pass, so I refuse to test again so Extras can sleep easy at night knowing I am doing my part to keep the powers that be in check. Hi Hi.

(Flame suit on, steps off soap box)