SDS-200 Not recognizing trunked system, deaf

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n2zz

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Just received my SDS200 yesterday. Out of the box after entering my zip and range, scanning without a problem. Updated the firmware with sentinel, then wrote the new database. I locked out a few systems, as they are not active in my area. After I did the usual setup for my area, as I have done my 436/536/SDS100, all of a sudden, the scanner did not stop on my local trunked system while scanning. I used my SDS-100 as a reference. The SDS-200, on an outside antenna (and I did try multiple antennas) did not even register receiving one of the sites on my trunking system, while the SDS-100 on its rubber duck antenna did so without a problem. If I paused the scanner on the trunking system, it would receive on the nearby site, but not the distant one, while the SDS-100 was able to do both. I did change the SD card several times, but no benefit. Unless I somehow activated a global attenuator, the SDS-200 appears deaf, and would not lock on my trunking system (even the strong signal one) while scanning.

I have had Uniden scanners for some time and have had all of the HP series, but never encountered a problem like this one. any ideas before I contact Uniden Support to send in the unit for evaluation and repair?

Jim N2ZZ
 

n2zz

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It appears that most information is stored on the SD card, but some functions seem to retained by the scanner. Is there a global reset that returns the radio to factory settings (just in case I hit a key inadvertently)?

I will try to turn off the global filters/attenuator to see if that solves the problem. That could have been an inadvertent key press.
 

phask

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Make sure you are still in the correct location, you may have a location set in Sentinel and overwrote when writing from the PC.

Or just read from the 536, change target model and write to the 200.

Obviously if paused on the site and receiving the radio works, sounds like some simple operator error.
 

kruser

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I'm not aware of any global reset.

For the filters, toggle them to the other choices from whatever they are set at now.
They can also be set per site for trunked systems as well. If so, they will use that setting instead of the Global setting so you might want to check filters at the Site level for your trunked systems.
I'd guess you checked and made sure the sites you want have their quick keys enabled.

Good luck!
 

phask

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Addition - run analyse the sites, that will show if you are receiving them or have any issue.
 

palmerjrusa

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Just received my SDS200 yesterday. Out of the box after entering my zip and range, scanning without a problem. Updated the firmware with sentinel, then wrote the new database. I locked out a few systems, as they are not active in my area. After I did the usual setup for my area, as I have done my 436/536/SDS100, all of a sudden, the scanner did not stop on my local trunked system while scanning. I used my SDS-100 as a reference. The SDS-200, on an outside antenna (and I did try multiple antennas) did not even register receiving one of the sites on my trunking system, while the SDS-100 on its rubber duck antenna did so without a problem. If I paused the scanner on the trunking system, it would receive on the nearby site, but not the distant one, while the SDS-100 was able to do both. I did change the SD card several times, but no benefit. Unless I somehow activated a global attenuator, the SDS-200 appears deaf, and would not lock on my trunking system (even the strong signal one) while scanning.

I have had Uniden scanners for some time and have had all of the HP series, but never encountered a problem like this one. any ideas before I contact Uniden Support to send in the unit for evaluation and repair?

Jim N2ZZ


Experiment with the filter settings, it can make the difference between reception and tracking or no reception at all.
 

TailGator911

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Almost without fail, anytime someone comes into the forum with such a problem it is almost always an error in programming. Re-program with attention to detail. If it rec'd ok with zip code programming and you can hear the local weather channel, then it's something that you did or didn't do in the programming sequence. Take your time and go over everything, and you will find the mistake.

JD
kf4anc
 

n2zz

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Is there some documentation somewhere for the auto filter settings?

Turns out global attenuation is not a problem. It is off.

Have gone through the programming sequences in detail multiple times. Have experience with the 436/536/SDS100 and multiple other scanners in the past, without difficulties. Generally do not post on forums for tech support, but I am stuck on this problem. Have tried the steps above, but would like to see documentation for the auto filter settings.
 

KR7CQ

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Assuming that the SDS100 and SDS200 have the same program, it's not going to be a programming issue. My first thought was that you will need to play with filters. The SDS200 with an outdoor antenna is a different animal from an SDS100 with a duck antenna. Things will interfere with the SDS200 that don't interfere with the SDS100 with duck antenna. Example: The new Maricopa County Phase 2 system is a tough one, but I can receive it with the SDS100 in some locations. I cannot properly receive it with the SDS200 and outdoor antenna with any combination of filters or attenuation...it's not happening, period. Other systems which work fine on the SDS100 can be made to work on the SDS200, but only with attenuation or filters. Only experimentation will reveal what filter setting to use.

***I really think we need a sticky about filters. A nutshell on what they are, and something stating the fact that you will have to experiment to find the right filter for a given problem, in your unique situation, and that there are NO "rules of thumb" for using them.

Edit: Additional: A digital system that "doesn't work correctly" on an SDS scanner can show any one of or any combination of the following symptoms: 1) Complete failure to lock onto a control channel frequency while scanning, even though you will be able to manually monitor that frequency to confirm signal. 2) Sporadic locks on the control channel frequency. 3) Lock on control channel frequency with wild fluctuations in apparent signal strength ranging from very strong to weak. 4) Lock on control channel frequency with strong signal, with no apparent attempt to ever switch to talk frequencies / display a talk group, even for a moment. 5) Lock on control channel frequency with strong signal, with momentary attempts to switch to a talk frequency / display a talk group on the display. 6) Lock on control channel frequency with occasional transmissions received (some to many transmissions are missed).

The thing that seems odd to me about these different "issues", is that once audio from a talk group starts being produced, I usually hear the entire conversation on that talk group (no "cut outs" like what you would have heard on a non-LSM scanner having issues on LSM). I'm wondering if some improvement can't be made with firmware in this regard. There are five systems in my area that I can receive strong signal on, yet never hear much, regardless of filtering or attenuation. These systems cannot be monitored with the SDS's, likely because of interfering signals on nearby frequencies, and this is an inherent weakness with the current SDR setup. I'm reasonably lucky, in that I can hear my most important systems (except for that new P2 system), so overall I'm OK with what I'm getting, all things considered.
 
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jjbond

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Is there some documentation somewhere for the auto filter settings?

:ROFLMAO: Yue phunny... (we all wish there was)

This is a unique radio in that after spending 700.00 on it then another 100 or more on an outside antenna... it makes it worse... I’m in stand by mode before I’ll buy one, in fact my 100 may go in the classifieds section shortly if this lunacy with the problems keeps up.. crazy

Sitting near 101 and 17 in Phoenix I hear Phx PD dispatch but VERY rarely hear cars and VERY rarely do I hear any other cities, Scottsdale etc.. occasionally do so I know it’s an RF sense overload issue not programming.

Someone from Uniden needs to fly down to Phoenix for a couple days and spend it with someone as knowledgeable as K7 and see what’s going on, is V blowing out our front ends etc. it should have already been done in pre production testing but guess not. I think that’s there only savior at this point. Fixing firmware based on guesses from a dark lab in Japan hoping we eventually luck out and get the right filtering is only going to work so long, till it becomes a hardware issue. It’s starting to appear companies are relying a bit too much on the ‘software’ part of SDR!!!!!!!!!!! It can only do so much!!
 
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KR7CQ

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:ROFLMAO: Yue phunny... (we all wish there was)

This is a unique radio in that after spending 700.00 on it then another 100 or more on an outside antenna... it makes it worse... I’m in stand by mode before I’ll buy one, in fact my 100 may go in the classifieds section shortly if this lunacy with the problems keeps up.. crazy

Sitting near 101 and 17 in Phoenix I hear Phx PD dispatch but VERY rarely hear cars and VERY rarely do I hear any other cities, Scottsdale etc.. occasionally do so I know it’s an RF sense overload issue not programming.

Someone from Uniden needs to fly down to Phoenix for a couple days and spend it with someone as knowledgeable as K7 and see what’s going on, is V blowing out our front ends etc. it should have already been done in pre production testing but guess not. I think that’s there only savior at this point. Fixing firmware based on guesses from a dark lab in Japan hoping we eventually luck out and get the right filtering is only going to work so long, till it becomes a hardware issue. It’s starting to appear companies are relying a bit too much on the ‘software’ part of SDR!!!!!!!!!!! It can only do so much!!

Yes, Phoenix is a good test-bed and there was at least one beta tester here. But I believe that he was located in the Northwest Valley where conditions are different than living right in the middle of "the stuff". Ideally (just a fantasy I know), there would be a half dozen beta testers here, in various locations. Had that actually been possible, a wealth of information would have been collected, as Phoenix is an extremely challenging simulcast environment. Some simulcast towers are located quite high-up on towers or mountains, transmitting above a relatively flat surrounding terrain, without a lot of tall buildings. In other words, it's RF hell.

For Phoenix fire, a good test would be to set another scanner to the VHF dispatch frequency for PFD, and you will see just how many dispatched calls you miss on the digital side. Actually the digital side SHOULD hear far more, as on the VHF side some calls are only heard with a good rooftop antenna on the second scanner, as some VHF transmission will come from more distant sites whereas all calls go out on the same simulcast towers, but anyway if you are missing TX's you will know quickly by performing this comparison test.

Simulcast H (Scottsdale) is hard to receive with my SDSs unless I get near Scottsdale.

According to member Ubbe (and he sounds like he has this one nailed down pretty well), the SDR chip used in these scanners suffers from interference from nearby frequencies in a way that is not totally addressable through firmware. It's a hardware limitation. Filters can help, but sometimes don't do the trick. There may not be any great improvement from here on out, but I'm holding out hope.

I would caution against getting upset and selling your SDS just yet, as I and others have found that they serve well for certain things, where other scanners won't work. My SDS200 is the only scanner that can be attached to my rooftop antenna which does a great job on Simulcast A and B, MCSO Smartzone, and AZ Wins, all while being able to add analog (albeit with a lot of white noise as noted previously) to the mix, all in rotation, scanning all together. I can't monitor a handful of digital systems with the SDS200 and rooftop antenna at all, but still, overall I'm pretty happy despite the shortcomings. You may find that the SDS200 can earn its keep in your situation as well.

Overall, the SDS scanners are flawed but useful tools for me. For others they are amazing and perfect (in their individual situations). For some they can't deliver when and where they need to deliver, and they get returned. When the SDS's came out I hoped they would offer the same consistency that a Unication G4/5 does, but that was not to be, given all that a scanner has to do, and given the price point that was set based upon what Uniden knew about their market.

After all is said and done, I honestly think Uniden did what they could with all of the parameters they were trying to work within, and I want to be sure to say that.
 

n2zz

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To All,

Thank you for your help, suggestions and comments. After working with the scanner for a few days, I am convinced that it is not programming or operator error. I believe there is something wrong with the scanner that will need direct attention by Uniden. I have decided to send it in to Uniden for repair.

I have had interest in scanning since 1992, and have had most, if not all, Uniden Trunking scanners since they started making them. The newer ones are the most consumer friendly ones ever, ones that can program themselves by just entering a zip code. So, the technology is open to a much wider market than scanner enthusiasts who learn the ins and outs of a scanner. Some just buy the scanner to program in a zip code, and have it just work so that they can receive transmissions. That being said, the unit should easily handle my state Motorola Type II Phase one trunking system, as all my other scanners have been able to do. It should be relatively sensitive, at least as much so as my BCD536HP or SDS-100. This unit seems to be lack the sensitivity, and I believe it is defective. So, I'll let everyone know the outcome after I receive the unit back.

One thing I learned, though, is to make sure the unit is fully checked out prior to purchasing the entitlement codes for DMR/PROVOICE/NXDN. I have never had a problem with Uniden scanners before, so I trusted that it would work, and not be a problem. If I didn't pay for and enter those codes, I would have called the store where I purchased the unit and asked for a replacement scanner rather than sending it in for repair.
 

chief21

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The thing that seems odd to me about these different "issues", is that once audio from a talk group starts being produced, I usually hear the entire conversation on that talk group (no "cut outs" like what you would have heard on a non-LSM scanner having issues on LSM).

This behavior is similar to what I'm seeing with my SDS-200. I happen to live VERY close to one of the local simulcast P25 P1 tower locations. Some months ago, reception of the control channel (CC) became very spotty with the HP2 and virtually nothing I tried improved the reception. Sounds like LSM issues, right? So, I bit the bullet and purchased an SDS-200 and - while reception of this P25 system has improved somewhat - I still continue to have serious issues receiving and decoding the CC.

In the past, I had been using an external antenna with my HP2. Currently, however, I am forced to use a tiny stub of a stripped-coax "antenna" since anything larger will not allow the SDS-200 to capture the P25 CC at all. When a channel grant occurs, the signal of the assigned voice channel is always strong and the audio is loud and clear... only the CC is proving difficult to receive and decode. As others have suggested, my working theory is that some other strong signal is interfering with the P25 CC. I have been following discussions about the new filters and some settings do seem to help somewhat, but not enough. I sincerely hope that these issues can be overcome and that the SDS-200 doesn't turn out to be an expensive but unnecessary upgrade.
 

KR7CQ

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This behavior is similar to what I'm seeing with my SDS-200. I happen to live VERY close to one of the local simulcast P25 P1 tower locations. Some months ago, reception of the control channel (CC) became very spotty with the HP2 and virtually nothing I tried improved the reception. Sounds like LSM issues, right? So, I bit the bullet and purchased an SDS-200 and - while reception of this P25 system has improved somewhat - I still continue to have serious issues receiving and decoding the CC.

In the past, I had been using an external antenna with my HP2. Currently, however, I am forced to use a tiny stub of a stripped-coax "antenna" since anything larger will not allow the SDS-200 to capture the P25 CC at all. When a channel grant occurs, the signal of the assigned voice channel is always strong and the audio is loud and clear... only the CC is proving difficult to receive and decode. As others have suggested, my working theory is that some other strong signal is interfering with the P25 CC. I have been following discussions about the new filters and some settings do seem to help somewhat, but not enough. I sincerely hope that these issues can be overcome and that the SDS-200 doesn't turn out to be an expensive but unnecessary upgrade.

Very well put. My take also is that there is enough interference on the CC to cause enough data packets to be corrupted that things go screwy when it comes to switching to a voice frequency properly. Once the switch does actually occur and it's a solid event, things are fine. The interference is on the control channel frequency, not on the voice frequency. Although, I suppose interference on the voice frequency is also its own issue and probably happens randomly as well. It's hard to make sense of what is happening at times.
 

Ubbe

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I have been following discussions about the new filters and some settings do seem to help somewhat, but not enough.
As you live so close to the site I presume you had the attenuator enabled to all channels at that site and you also tried the IFX setting on the CC frequency and then went thru the different filter settings again?

/Ubbe
 

sparklehorse

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Just received my SDS200 yesterday. Out of the box after entering my zip and range, scanning without a problem. Updated the firmware with sentinel, then wrote the new database. I locked out a few systems, as they are not active in my area. After I did the usual setup for my area, as I have done my 436/536/SDS100, all of a sudden, the scanner did not stop on my local trunked system while scanning. I used my SDS-100 as a reference. The SDS-200, on an outside antenna (and I did try multiple antennas) did not even register receiving one of the sites on my trunking system, while the SDS-100 on its rubber duck antenna did so without a problem. If I paused the scanner on the trunking system, it would receive on the nearby site, but not the distant one, while the SDS-100 was able to do both. I did change the SD card several times, but no benefit. Unless I somehow activated a global attenuator, the SDS-200 appears deaf, and would not lock on my trunking system (even the strong signal one) while scanning.

I have had Uniden scanners for some time and have had all of the HP series, but never encountered a problem like this one. any ideas before I contact Uniden Support to send in the unit for evaluation and repair?

Jim N2ZZ

I’m not clear after reading this thread. Are you Zip Code scanning the full database? Or are you scanning a Favorites List (or lists)?
.
 

chief21

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As you live so close to the site I presume you had the attenuator enabled to all channels at that site and you also tried the IFX setting on the CC frequency and then went thru the different filter settings again?

Since my "antenna" is so limited, I'm not scanning anything but this one P25 site. IFX appears to make no difference at all, so I turned it off. Sometimes it seems as if the ATT helps, but after a while the scanner will lose lock and start hunting for the CC. Pretty much the same with the filters. I've tried them all and AUTO seems to work the best (but not well enough). Another member suggested that Verizon might be upgrading local cell sites for LTE band 5. If that is true, how could I deal with that?
 

n2zz

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As to the two questions posed, I am not that close to the site. It is several miles away, and I tried the receiver on an indoor whip antenna also. Same problem. Not stopping on the local site, non-reception of the next closer site (even on rooftop antenna). All my other scanners BCD436HP/536HP/SDS100 have never had a problem, and can detect and stop on both sites.

Second, I am zip code scanning the full database with an enabled favorites list.

I scanned the weather channels. It receives one that is less than a mile away, but no others. All of my other scanners will receive at least two distant weather channels.

Now that I've sent the scanner in for repair, I have the 536 scanning once again-no problems with this unit.

I do concur with KR7CQ. I worry that this was an expensive, but unnecessary upgrade. Thing is, I have been very happy with my SDS-100, so I was hoping to upgrade to the SDS-200 and sell my other scanners.

Let's see what Uniden Repair Dept says.

Again, does anyone know about documentation for the various filters? Where can I find it?
 
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