raven315
Member
What are the best solutions for emergency backup power that would keep your computer, radio , and modem up and running when the power goes out ?
Emergency power backup
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doctordialtone
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raven315
Member
It would haft to run everything un interrupted for 72hours / 3days if the power is out and will auto switch on its own if I’m not around!
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doctordialtone
Member
If it would HAVE to run for that long, you'd be better off with a generator.
Batteries will do it, but you're looking at a HUGE expense.
I suggest you contact a local electrician who does Generators.
raven315
Member
Like I was away today and power went out here and the feed was knocked down . So looking for something that would keep it running on its own if I’m not around.
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doctordialtone is correct; batteries can do it, but you'd be better off with a generator and an automatic transfer switch if you're looking at a minimum of 72 hours without power. You'd still want a small battery backup to power things while the generator starts up and the switch transfers power so things don't reboot. In my case, I have separate 350VA battery backups for my feed computer/scanners and modem/router/switch to provide power while my standby generator starts and the switch cuts over.
That being said, if the power is out that long, your ISP may also be out of power. Keeping your feed up becomes a moot point if the ISP goes down due to a lack of power. It's happened to me; the ISP loses utility power and the feed goes down, even though my scanners/computer and network gear stay up.
raven315
Member
My main internet is DSL but the internet I use is a 4g lte home WiFi . But a few things to think about. I might end up moving the feed gear to a emergency services tower site. Which they have all the backup power there wired in .
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In a recent brush fire our repeater site not only lost commercial power, but lost emergency power when, after three days the propane powered generators began to fail. The fire was literally burning up to the building. Good luck getting a propane delivery under those circumstances.
In a recent storm we lost electricity, internet and cell service.
We all know about Murphy's Law. Now consider O'Toole's Law. It states that Murphy is an optimist.
The sites I talking about have local, state and federal public safety radio towers as well as cell sites, commercial and amateur radio repeaters.
How much are you prepared to pay? Most tower owners don't even give free rack space to anyone. I just signed a 10 year lease with a local city to have an ARES repeater in their building.
In a recent storm we lost electricity, internet and cell service.
We all know about Murphy's Law. Now consider O'Toole's Law. It states that Murphy is an optimist.
The sites I talking about have local, state and federal public safety radio towers as well as cell sites, commercial and amateur radio repeaters.
How much are you prepared to pay? Most tower owners don't even give free rack space to anyone. I just signed a 10 year lease with a local city to have an ARES repeater in their building.
One other comment. Locating your feed at a repeater site may be problematical. I don't know what kind of receiver you use, but even the best commercial equipment can be subject to overloads, spurious signals and intermodulation in crowded sites. We had to add a set of cavities tuned as a bandpass filter on a 440 repeater. It is a commercial radio. There are literally thousands of signals on the air at major sites.
raven315
Member
These are true , I have 3 sites that I can get into at no cost . But I just got lucky on that but primarily there are fees .
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raven315
Member
My radio is a Motorola apx 7500 phase 2 tri-band vhf/700/800 base radio . I’ve setup repeaters before and trunked systems and I’m getting ready to setup a DMR repeater for ham radio use .
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doctordialtone
Member
So - no cost but there are fees?
raven315
Member
Only fee is to get a tower dog to mount an antenna but otherwise no cost for anything else at the site .
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jim202
Member
Having worked in both the cellular market and the Public Safety world for many years, unless the tower site is owned by the Public Safety agency I have never been able to find a tower that you could install a ham repeater on for no cost but installing the antenna system.
Most of the towers around the country are owned by leasing companies and they are looking for some real blood money to be on the towers. Generally you won't even be able to talk with them for less that $1500 to $2000 a month or more depending on the market location. Plus they will charge you a tower engineering study cost of over $2000 to see if the tower will structurally hold another antenna.
The tower engineering standards were changed a short time back where an existing tower would no longer pass the new engineering standards, even with the current antennas on it. So all the existing towers will have to be replaced or beefed up to hold any additional loading. The cost will have to be born with the new entity wanting to go on the existing tower.
Bottom line here is if you have found a free cost tower to put your antenna on, walk cautiously and get it in writing.
Good luck on your efforts.
Jim
Most of the towers around the country are owned by leasing companies and they are looking for some real blood money to be on the towers. Generally you won't even be able to talk with them for less that $1500 to $2000 a month or more depending on the market location. Plus they will charge you a tower engineering study cost of over $2000 to see if the tower will structurally hold another antenna.
The tower engineering standards were changed a short time back where an existing tower would no longer pass the new engineering standards, even with the current antennas on it. So all the existing towers will have to be replaced or beefed up to hold any additional loading. The cost will have to be born with the new entity wanting to go on the existing tower.
Bottom line here is if you have found a free cost tower to put your antenna on, walk cautiously and get it in writing.
Good luck on your efforts.
Jim
raven315
Member
For the most part your current . The tower sites are owned by emergency services for the county radio system , there very big into amateur Radio and support them.
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jim202
Member
Let me also put my 2 cents in on emergency power. Your best selection would be to look at a generator. There are only 3 fuel sources to consider. The 3 are propane, natural gas and diesel in no order of best selection. They all have their own limitations.
Again talking from years of working with this subject, let me give some background to let you consider. My first consideration would be natural gas. You don't have a storage issue, you don't have a delivery problem to refill a tank. But you need to be in a location where it is available. Most tower location and even many home location are not serviced by a natural gas supply. The other down side is if you live in a hurricane region. It would not be out of the question for a hurricane to take out one or more of the pumping stations that supply the pressure to keep the natural gas flowing.
Propane has a couple of down sides. First, you will need a propane storage tank large enough to supply the generator to run for a number of days if you have a major storm go through and take out the power lines. If it is at your house, you need to add in the use of stove, hot water heater and house heating to size it correctly. Then there is the problem of deciding if you put in an above ground or in ground tank. Last consideration is to ask the company delivering the propane if they have a generator at their bulk plant to fill their delivery trucks. No power at their bulk plant tank means they can't fill their delivery trucks. No delivery trucks during a long power outage means you can run out of propane.
Last selection id diesel to fuel your generator. Again, you will need to size the fuel tank based on the size of the generator and how many gallons an hour it uses. You also will need to make sure you put a fuel additive into the tank to keep algae from growing in the tank in the southern climate and in the colder climates to prevent the fuel from gelling when it gets cold (below freezing). Again, inquire if the delivery company has a generator to fill their delivery trucks from their storage tanks.
The last topic is the different companies that make generators. You can shop around for the cost of the generators, but let me point out a major point to consider. What type of engine is in the generator your looking to obtain? The reason I ask is can you obtain replacement parts at the local auto store if you need something in an emergency? I say this based on past experiences while working for the cellular companies. We would bid out the generators we needed at the cellular tower locations.
What we found was Generac would come in low bid all the time. But obtaining replacement parts was expensive. All the common parts were special and could only be obtained from Generac. Like fan belts, water pumps, starter motors, radiator hoses and some of the common engine parts. They do not conformal coat their voltage regulator boards. So if you had a driving rain that would blow moisture onto the regulator board, the voltage would go all over the place. They would tell you that they have warehouses all over the country. But those don't help you in the middle of a hurricane if that engine goes down and needs a part.
All the other generator companies normally use an engine that you can go to your local auto store and obtain what you need. If you are using diesel, we would spec that a John Deer engine be used to power the generator. You can get parts for a John Deer engine just about any place you go.
Two other comment about aspirated engines. If your using propane or natural gas, there is a vent hole in the pressure regulators. Go get one of those bronze screw in filters and put it into the vent hole of the regulator. Around here we have mud wasps and they love to build a nest inside that small vent hole. Guess they like the smell. But when they do, it screws up the operation of the regulator and the engine won't run correctly with load changes. The other comment is that you need to consider building a wind barrier around the generator enclosure. Make sure there is enough space to easily service the generator. But the barrier is to attempt to keep the wind gusts down from effecting the gas pressure regulator. Through the experience of a number of hurricanes and high winds from thunderstorms going through, these gusts effect the operation of the gas pressure regulator and mess up the engine operation and speed.
I know I got long winded, but wanted to pass along some topics that most people don't think about when looking at generators. There is some more comments, but this is enough to mull over for now.
Jim
Again talking from years of working with this subject, let me give some background to let you consider. My first consideration would be natural gas. You don't have a storage issue, you don't have a delivery problem to refill a tank. But you need to be in a location where it is available. Most tower location and even many home location are not serviced by a natural gas supply. The other down side is if you live in a hurricane region. It would not be out of the question for a hurricane to take out one or more of the pumping stations that supply the pressure to keep the natural gas flowing.
Propane has a couple of down sides. First, you will need a propane storage tank large enough to supply the generator to run for a number of days if you have a major storm go through and take out the power lines. If it is at your house, you need to add in the use of stove, hot water heater and house heating to size it correctly. Then there is the problem of deciding if you put in an above ground or in ground tank. Last consideration is to ask the company delivering the propane if they have a generator at their bulk plant to fill their delivery trucks. No power at their bulk plant tank means they can't fill their delivery trucks. No delivery trucks during a long power outage means you can run out of propane.
Last selection id diesel to fuel your generator. Again, you will need to size the fuel tank based on the size of the generator and how many gallons an hour it uses. You also will need to make sure you put a fuel additive into the tank to keep algae from growing in the tank in the southern climate and in the colder climates to prevent the fuel from gelling when it gets cold (below freezing). Again, inquire if the delivery company has a generator to fill their delivery trucks from their storage tanks.
The last topic is the different companies that make generators. You can shop around for the cost of the generators, but let me point out a major point to consider. What type of engine is in the generator your looking to obtain? The reason I ask is can you obtain replacement parts at the local auto store if you need something in an emergency? I say this based on past experiences while working for the cellular companies. We would bid out the generators we needed at the cellular tower locations.
What we found was Generac would come in low bid all the time. But obtaining replacement parts was expensive. All the common parts were special and could only be obtained from Generac. Like fan belts, water pumps, starter motors, radiator hoses and some of the common engine parts. They do not conformal coat their voltage regulator boards. So if you had a driving rain that would blow moisture onto the regulator board, the voltage would go all over the place. They would tell you that they have warehouses all over the country. But those don't help you in the middle of a hurricane if that engine goes down and needs a part.
All the other generator companies normally use an engine that you can go to your local auto store and obtain what you need. If you are using diesel, we would spec that a John Deer engine be used to power the generator. You can get parts for a John Deer engine just about any place you go.
Two other comment about aspirated engines. If your using propane or natural gas, there is a vent hole in the pressure regulators. Go get one of those bronze screw in filters and put it into the vent hole of the regulator. Around here we have mud wasps and they love to build a nest inside that small vent hole. Guess they like the smell. But when they do, it screws up the operation of the regulator and the engine won't run correctly with load changes. The other comment is that you need to consider building a wind barrier around the generator enclosure. Make sure there is enough space to easily service the generator. But the barrier is to attempt to keep the wind gusts down from effecting the gas pressure regulator. Through the experience of a number of hurricanes and high winds from thunderstorms going through, these gusts effect the operation of the gas pressure regulator and mess up the engine operation and speed.
I know I got long winded, but wanted to pass along some topics that most people don't think about when looking at generators. There is some more comments, but this is enough to mull over for now.
Jim
raven315
Member
Very good info Jim . I thought about doing the solar system also . But if I do go to a site I know one site actually has 3 backup generators .
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TailGator911
Silent Key/KF4ANC
I have my amateur radio station (scanners/vhf transceivers/computers/etc.) backed up on a Tripplite backup battery which gives me about an hour (or less) to initiate my generator backup. I use an A-iPower SUA 12000E gas-powered mobile generator which I can situate anywhere with the needed extension cords. Best generator I have ever used, very quiet. I have 2 50-gallon drums if needed for fuel. I also have 2 solar-charging stations for things like HTs and cellphones, iPads, etc which can be stationed in my radio room window (or anywhere). I also have a Duracell 600 mobile battery backup which I bought for the RV, a great little power source. I learned many a lesson after enduring numerous hurricanes in Florida. I will never stand in line again for necessities. I have food and water supplied for about a year, depending. I am ready for anything. Backup power is a must, and it is a good idea to not procrastinate on it, or there will come a day when you are caught without. Yes, I speak from hands-on experience.
JD
kf4anc
JD
kf4anc
raven315
Member
I have a 72 hour go kit and I have a extended kit .
Radios , battery packs , small solar system for charging batteries and iPhone, full medical kit , basically I can totally be self sufficient as well as hopefully I never haft to use it a 45. Cal .
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Read my post here.
tl;dl
I got a CyberPower CP850PFCLCD. It's a pretty decent unit and is meant for active power supplies for a computer. I have a gaming desktop, two monitors and a surround sound system with sub woofer connected to it. I'll get about 15-20 minutes on the battery if the power should go out. Plenty of time to safely turn everything off. For radio gear you'll have a lot more bat time I'm sure. They do sell higher amp models.
tl;dl
I got a CyberPower CP850PFCLCD. It's a pretty decent unit and is meant for active power supplies for a computer. I have a gaming desktop, two monitors and a surround sound system with sub woofer connected to it. I'll get about 15-20 minutes on the battery if the power should go out. Plenty of time to safely turn everything off. For radio gear you'll have a lot more bat time I'm sure. They do sell higher amp models.
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