CDOT Questions

[PJH]

The CDOT section in the RRDB will be getting some minor tweaks so that its a touch more uniform, but I'd like to know the following, as I don't monitor CDOT all that often:

Traffic Channels - are they a dispatch talkgroup for the supervisors to the respective sections, or managing the Denver metro/highway traffic incidents? I have heard both types of transmissions.

I am curious if they should be at the top of the hierarchy if they are decent as a "Dispatch" type of channel (or not)

Are the section non-tac channels dispatch or coordination talkgroups, vs tac. Again, mixed traffic has been heard between say, "Tom" vs "Tom Tac". This also may be an error on the initial submission to the DB years ago were some talkgroups may have been entered or submitted backwards.

Any organizational hierarchy would be apprireated.

 

[n0nhp]

From a west slope perspective,
The "Lincoln" or other section traffic can be anything from car-to-car (truck to truck) to Hanging Lake Tunnel or a CSP dispatch center contacting a section supervisor about a road hazard. A crew working on a repair will often go to their "tac" channel or a simplex channel especially when they have a lane closure and flaggers.
During plowing ops when they are borrowing plows from areas not as hard hit during the storm, they will often split the plow teams between the main and tac channel for coordination in the conga line.
How to best present it in the DB is a decision I am glad I don't have to make.
Good luck

Bruce

 

[n0nhj]

I think the traffic TGs are the courtesy patrol vehicles for the Denver Metro Area.

CDOT works a little differently than that a typical dispatch scenario.

Before CDOT had as many of their own dispatch centers, CSP did the dispatching for them, and still does in the more rural areas.
So that they don't turn the volume down the first time you get the "hey Bob lookout for that truck up ahead" type traffic, the dispatch centers only listened/monitored the "Dispatch" Talkgroups usually one for for each Maintenance Section. i.e.: Hwy 1 Dispatch, Hwy 2 Dispatch, etc. The CDOT workers usually kept to the area TGs. i.e.: 6 John, so they could chat among themselves and not bug the dispatchers. When Dispatch needed a truck for a specific area they would dial that up on the console and call them - usually you'll hear on the 6J TG "Any 6J unit, Craig" They'd tell them what they need and then turn that back down. If a truck out on the road needed to contact a dispatcher they would switch to the Dispatch TG. Time marched on, added more CDOT dispatch centers so now you have Pueblo Traffic Operations Center, Golden TOC, Eisenhower Tunnel Control, and Hanging Lake (that I'm aware of). Now they do most of the dispatching (though some areas you still hear CSP). They also added some additional Talkgroups like Vail Pass MAC, SNOW MAC, etc. During the winter I've heard those used more like a dispatch TG.

So if you're hoping to catch the Dispatch operations reporting problems you have to listen to all the area TGs.
On the dispatch TGs you will usually only hear the trucks reporting the current conditions, if they come across an accident, or to tell them they resolved whatever Dispatch called them for.

They also started adding the Tac Talkgroups for each of the areas. i.e. 2J Tac, etc. They filled in some empty TGs, added some to the end of the list, etc. Then of course CDOT reorganized the Maintenance sections and areas a few years back which shifted the radio numbers and Talkgroup names in some areas. So a lot of CDOT data is real challenge to sort out what's what, especially since a lot of the area and tac channels get mostly radio traffic like "hey Bob, I've got to pull out and fuel, yada, yada." Rarely do they use their full call sign unless they are on the dispatch TG.

Then to really confuse things, the Maintenance sections are numbered, but those numbers have nothing to do with the Region numbers. i.e: Region 5 (for engineering, admin, etc.) contains the Maintenance Sections 3 & 7 which the TG names and radio numbers come from. The 5 radio numbers are for Maintenance Section 5 which is in Region 6. (And the boundaries don't match exactly either).

The letters designate the supervisors areas, i.e.: 6J is the NW portion of the state all under the supervision of 6J1. Then the patrols are numbered but not necessarily in order. (I've not been able to find a current set of maps, I think it all in a GIS type format now, and they haven't published an updated pdf type). I've attached the Maintenance Section 6 map from 2013 as I don't think it changed much. So the Radio numbers would be 6J5 for the truck for the Craig area (usually the lead or senior person for that patrol). Then it varies quite a bit if there is more than one truck, you'll some areas they say dash 1, or just one, some even just use names. i.e.: 6J5-1 or Six John Five One, or Six John 5 Bob.

Probably a whole lot more than you wanted to know, but that's my understanding of the system, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are some details I've got wrong.

Hope that helps
Chuck

 

[PJH]

So is there a higheracrby that is known between the names? T/J/L etc?

Are he Johns considered the dispatch group (if I read that right) or are all the non-tac groups dispatch groups within the sections?

Confused yet?

So looking at the DB now, if I place the “John” TG ahead of “Tom”, would that be correct, or makes no difference?

 

[n0nhj]

Makes no difference, the letters just identify geographic areas.

 

[crazy88]

How it works in section 1 (From Estes Park to Nebraska and from Burlington to Wyoming). CSP Denver dispatch, "Denver", will call out roadway problems/emergencies/sand/plow requests to the individual maintenance area (King, Lincoln, George etc). So for an incident in Fort Collins, for the King area, Denver will say "Any 1-King Truck, Denver." The maintenance crews will respond "Denver this is 1-King-04" (or whatever patrol they are from). Denver dispatch will then call out the specific hazard and highway and milepost. The responding crew will then go to from the 1-K-1 channel to the Highway 1 channel and report that the hazard has been taken care of. Denver dispatch only monitors the highway channels for each maintenance section and does not monitor the individual areas (King, Lincoln, John, etc). The 1-K-1 channel is used by the crews for truck to truck communications. Crews will also typically scan the CSP 3C talkgroup to listen for any hazards or fatal accidents in the 3-Charlie CSP area. For serious highway damage or fatal accidents, Denver will go to the 1-K-1 channel and call out "Any 1-King supervisor, Denver" and a supervisor will respond.

If a fort collins maintenance worker wants to contact Denver dispatch they will go from the 1-K-1 channel to the Highway 1 channel and say "Denver, 1-King-04" and disptach will respond.

The I-25 courtesy patrol vehicles operate on the Traffic channels and the ones with tow trucks are "Tom" and the ones with pickups are "Paul." The courtesy patrols scan the King channel (for I-25) and will help out for a roadway hazard if they are closer than the maintenance workers.

The Tac channels are not worth listening to, as those are mainly for flagging operations or other specific jobs where they don't want to clutter up the main channel.

When CDOT works with CSP, the more experienced troopers will toggle over to the King area channel and communicate with the crews directly.

Tom channels are for traffic crews. For example, the 1-T-1 channel, or the Tom channel, is for Section 1 Traffic crews (signal crews, paint crews, and sign crews).

Specialty crews (bridge crew, specialties crew) will go on whatever channel their work area is in. Specialty crews include the sewer vac truck, gradall excavator, excavator, paver, and semi tractor with low boy trailer. I do know, that in metro Denver specialty crews are known as "Sam" and include the noxious weed crews, forestry crews, graffiti crews, and debris response crews.

Each area (King, Lincoln, John, etc) all have their own semi tractor with low boy trailer to haul heavy equipment to and from their areas.

For roadway projects up Poudre Canyon or other areas with no radio reception, they will use simplex 1,2, or 3 for truck to truck communications.

I cannot speak for how the metro Denver or Eisenhower areas work, as those are totally different animals.