Florida hams get grant

[WB3DYE]

MIRAMAR, Fla., Aug. 21, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Hytera, a leading global provider of innovative Professional Mobile Radio (PMR) communications solutions, has donated a second RD982i-S Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) repeater to Statewide Amateur Radio Network (SARNET) in Florida ahead of the 2019 hurricane season. The donated equipment has already been installed and made ready for use in the event of an emergency.
SARNET is a network of linked UHF voice repeaters that serves the State of Florida

Florida SARNET Receives Hytera Donation to Better Prepare for Hurricane Season

MIRAMAR, Fla., Aug. 21, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Hytera, a leading global provider of innovative Professional Mobile Radio (PMR) communications solutions, has donated a second RD982i-S Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) repeater to Statewide Amateur Radio Network (SARNET) in Florida ahead of the 2019...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[AI7PM]

SARNET is being discontinued.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

What? Why, where did you hear this?

This system actually works. It could use some teweaking and m9re sites, but 8tt is a great resource. I hope this is not another case of Florida politricks.

 

[KevinC]

What? Why, where did you hear this?

This system actually works. It could use some teweaking and m9re sites, but 8tt is a great resource. I hope this is not another case of Florida politricks.

Read the August 20th update...

SARnet

SARNET: Statewide Amateur Radio Networking in Florida

www.sarnetfl.com

 

[AI7PM]

It was never guaranteed to last beyond FDOT's experimentation. FL hams should get together and build out a statewide system like, NM, CO, WA and OR, and the many in CA.

 

[Bote]

Nothing is final about SARNet.

 

[AA4TX]

It was never guaranteed to last beyond FDOT's experimentation. FL hams should get together and build out a statewide system like, NM, CO, WA and OR, and the many in CA.

Interesting possibility.

How many of those are internet based? We had major internet, landline and fiber optic cable losses during the hurricanes of the past 7 years.

SARNet still worked.

How many of those operated when most cellular communication was lost for days in the aftermath of a natural disaster?

SARNet did.

How many of those operated through major power losses that were greater than a week?

SARNet did.

How many of these remained functional when regions of their respective states lost ALL local public safety communications for an extended period?

SARNet did.

SARNet is unique because it is based on the hardened structures and microwave backbone of the Florida Department of Transportation. The only loss we had was due to a generator failure at one of these sites, and that was corrected within hours with a mobile generator.
I am sure we could build another statewide system, but I doubt is would serve the State of Florida as well as the current system. To give full credit, in the aftermath of hurricane Michael we also had a functioning HF net on 3.950 MHz that was serviceable when the HF antennas were erected. There were for obvious reasons fewer locations that could access that net, but it still served very well, and more than augmented the operations on SARNet.

We here in Florida thank the FDOT for their support thus far, and hope that this support will continue, due to the tremendous success of this system when it counted!

 

[rapidcharger]

Read the August 20th update...

SARnet

SARNET: Statewide Amateur Radio Networking in Florida

www.sarnetfl.com

Well the writing appears to be on the wall but they announced FDOT is not longer to support it not that it was necessarily being shut down.

What timing though.

 

[AA4TX]

Well the writing appears to be on the wall but they announced FDOT is not longer to support it not that it was necessarily being shut down.

What timing though.

Did you see the response from the FDOT to the letter writing campaign on the 21st?

This is the response we got:

"Thank you for your input regarding the Statewide Amateur Radio Network (SARNET) devices on the Florida Department of Transportation (Department) communications infrastructure used by amateur radio operators.

We are currently evaluating several options available to the Department concerning the future of the SARNET devices and no decision has yet been made.

Thanks again for your input."

Traffic Engineering & Operations Office
Florida Department of Transportation

 

[rapidcharger]

Did you see the response from the FDOT to the letter writing campaign on the 21st?

Got it. Well hopefully backup arrangements can be made to bypass the microwave backhaul if necessary. If any hams can do it, florida hams can!

 

[AI7PM]

Interesting possibility.

How many of those are internet based? .....How many of those operated through major power losses that were greater than a week?... lost ALL local public safety communications ...... hardened structures and microwave backbone.....

I am sure we could build another statewide system, but I doubt is would serve the State of Florida as well

Colorado Connection (15 repeaters plus one being added this month) and RMHAM DMR (26 repeaters, 4 zoned TGs in three states) networks on dedicated ham microwave with automatic redundant multiple path re-routes. That provides redundancy from the state DTRS system (similar to SLERS and FDOT) in case of failures there. Unique? Many have AC power, some are solar primary, with solar and generator backup. Hardened? Yes, and more. Some of the sites have to survive extreme Winter temps and winds, winds that have removed anemometers and lesser installations many times. Never mind the lightening issues. The audio quality on the Colorado Connection was emensely superior, even back in the 80s using 220 links, to anything I ever heard on SARNET. I wonder why? How does a system like this exist without using taxpayer assets? In fact, providing redundant coverage for the taxpayer assets. Several ham groups work cooperatively to secure and share sites where possible. Cooperative efforts have kept the Colorado Connection running for over 40 years.

WY DMR Project, 8 sites and growing, dedicated VPN on various modes of data exchange, none on public internet. That provides redundancy from the state WyoLink (similar to SLERS or FDOT network) incase of failures. This system is intentionally not installed on any state system towers to ensure redundant availability. It is also not, and never will be on BrandMeister, DMR-MARC, etc. It's a dedicated AUXCOMM/EMCOMM system. The RF decks and ancilaries are a combination of private donations and grant funding. Cooperative.

NM Megalink, 37 repeaters, some ham RF linking, some phone lines, some internet. Wow, hams cooperating to run a 37 repeater statewide system.

Intermountain Intertie, 22 repeaters 5 states. RF linked, and a great example of diverse hams across many miles working together. Cooperative.

Evergreen Intertie, 48 repeaters in 4 states. Used to be only RF linked, but has added internet ports to get in with dongles etc.
Cooperative efforts have kept this system running for over 30 years.

Yes, I know the value SARNET provided, as it was up and running before I left Florida. As well I've used it on several return trips. I also know, at least in my experience there in ARES (A-DEC) and as an EOC comm team volunteer, hams down that way are particularly fond of no cost, low maintenance, low work, low technical spec, tag along deals with their city, county and state tower assets. (I'm suppressing the urge to rant)
There's no reason the demise of SARNET has to mean a dependable, quality, and as "stand alone" as possible statewide network can't exist. If, IF the amateur community there (42,000 plus) truly believes what they are saying about SARNETs value, the planning meetings should already be underway. I think the talent pool and assets exist there to exceed the service the FDOT arragement provided. Is there the will? The emergency service mindset? If not, maybe most are just upset about losing another taxpayer provided ride for the hobby.
If a truly bi-directionally cooperative relationship is fostered with state, county, and local authorities, they maybe willing assist in aquiring equipment or influencing private entities to help out. Wouldn't it be great if FPL offered space on some of their statewide towers? Hardened, and plenty of electricity. <<<Hey, Frank.
Look at the successful Georgia statewide DSTAR EMCOMM network. They worked cooperatively with GA Public Broadcasting, and ended up with primo antenna space across the state. I know someone personally who contributed greatly to that project. Again, truly redundant comms not dependent on the state systems. Cooperative.

I can't speak to most of the California systems. Most were ham RF linked in the past. They have more linked than anyone though.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Well the writing appears to be on the wall but they announced FDOT is not longer to support it not that it was necessarily being shut down.

What timing though.

Do you suppose accepting equipment from Hytera created a problem? I can see a Vendor like Motorola interfering at a state level and making rash aspersions.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Colorado Connection (15 repeaters plus one being added this month) and RMHAM DMR (26 repeaters, 4 zoned TGs in three states) networks on dedicated ham microwave with automatic redundant multiple path re-routes. That provides redundancy from the state DTRS system (similar to SLERS and FDOT) in case of failures there. Unique? Many have AC power, some are solar primary, with solar and generator backup. Hardened? Yes, and more. Some of the sites have to survive extreme Winter temps and winds, winds that have removed anemometers and lesser installations many times. Never mind the lightening issues. The audio quality on the Colorado Connection was emensely superior, even back in the 80s using 220 links, to anything I ever heard on SARNET. I wonder why? How does a system like this exist without using taxpayer assets? In fact, providing redundant coverage for the taxpayer assets. Several ham groups work cooperatively to secure and share sites where possible. Cooperative efforts have kept the Colorado Connection running for over 40 years.

WY DMR Project, 8 sites and growing, dedicated VPN on various modes of data exchange, none on public internet. That provides redundancy from the state WyoLink (similar to SLERS or FDOT network) incase of failures. This system is intentionally not installed on any state system towers to ensure redundant availability. It is also not, and never will be on BrandMeister, DMR-MARC, etc. It's a dedicated AUXCOMM/EMCOMM system. The RF decks and ancilaries are a combination of private donations and grant funding. Cooperative.

NM Megalink, 37 repeaters, some ham RF linking, some phone lines, some internet. Wow, hams cooperating to run a 37 repeater statewide system.

Intermountain Intertie, 22 repeaters 5 states. RF linked, and a great example of diverse hams across many miles working together. Cooperative.

Evergreen Intertie, 48 repeaters in 4 states. Used to be only RF linked, but has added internet ports to get in with dongles etc.
Cooperative efforts have kept this system running for over 30 years.

Yes, I know the value SARNET provided, as it was up and running before I left Florida. As well I've used it on several return trips. I also know, at least in my experience there in ARES (A-DEC) and as an EOC comm team volunteer, hams down that way are particularly fond of no cost, low maintenance, low work, low technical spec, tag along deals with their city, county and state tower assets. (I'm suppressing the urge to rant)
There's no reason the demise of SARNET has to mean a dependable, quality, and as "stand alone" as possible statewide network can't exist. If, IF the amateur community there (42,000 plus) truly believes what they are saying about SARNETs value, the planning meetings should already be underway. I think the talent pool and assets exist there to exceed the service the FDOT arragement provided. Is there the will? The emergency service mindset? If not, maybe most are just upset about losing another taxpayer provided ride for the hobby.
If a truly bi-directionally cooperative relationship is fostered with state, county, and local authorities, they maybe willing assist in aquiring equipment or influencing private entities to help out. Wouldn't it be great if FPL offered space on some of their statewide towers? Hardened, and plenty of electricity. <<<Hey, Frank.
Look at the successful Georgia statewide DSTAR EMCOMM network. They worked cooperatively with GA Public Broadcasting, and ended up with primo antenna space across the state. I know someone personally who contributed greatly to that project. Again, truly redundant comms not dependent on the state systems. Cooperative.

I can't speak to most of the California systems. Most were ham RF linked in the past. They have more linked than anyone though.

The beauty of SARNET is that it uses the FDOT microwave backbone which is supports the statewide 47 MHz system and is underutilized ever since the roadside call boxes were dismantled, and SARNET requires little bandwidth. It would be hard to duplicate that extensive microwave system. The latest update implies some concern about state techs working on SARNET on state time. If that is the problem, it probably can be rectified. Hopefully there are no sinister forces in play,

 

[rapidcharger]

Do you suppose accepting equipment from Hytera created a problem? I can see a Vendor like Motorola interfering at a state level and making rash aspersions.

Nothing would surprise me in that state.

 

[AA4TX]

Colorado Connection (

WY DMR Project,
NM Megalink,
Intermountain Intertie,
Evergreen Intertie,

I spent a little bit of time trying to find technical information on the back-haul technology used in these systems, which would be more than interesting if we were to hedge our bets with the current system I think.

Could you provide some links?

I did see that the entire Colorado System was/is down due to a power failure. Would like to understand that one,

I expect that the geographical differences sere leveraged for coverage in the systems you have mentioned; It would be more of an effort here with mostly our flatland geography.

I think that our weather hazards present different challenges here. Not saying the systems you mentioned didn't have hardening challenges, but they are different then here, and since you lived here, you know that.

I have a background in designing safety related communications systems; I design RF and network control systems for Heavy Rail and Mining applications. Many of my designs must meet SIL requirements, especially those that are destined for Europe.

I would be very interested in looking at the back-haul solutions for the systems you mentioned, to see if there are any things we could learn for the State of Florida.

In the mean time, from the recent news I have been receiving, SARNet still has live, and news of it's demise was premature.

 

[Bote]

The latest update implies some concern about state techs working on SARNET on state time. If that is the problem, it probably can be rectified. Hopefully there are no sinister forces in play,

Spending a relative pittance to maintain a system that allows volunteers to do the jobs that would otherwise require paid personnel seems like a win for the budget-conscious.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Spending a relative pittance to maintain a system that allows volunteers to do the jobs that would otherwise require paid personnel seems like a win for the budget-conscious.

It does, but sometimes the bean counters get nasty. Everything has to have a project code 27B stroke 6. Watch the excellent movie "Brazil" for an example of bureaucracy. Robert Dinero will have to rappel into these tower sites at night with a full tool belt to reset the routers and gateways.

27B/6

 

[Bote]

I have Brazil on DVD (as a warning to what could happen).

The bean counters don't run the show; they have bosses who set the priorities and agenda. A good leader who employs foresight and wisdom wouldn't do something short-sighted and stupid. But since we're talking about politicians I guess anything is possible.

 

[MTS2000des]

There's no reason the demise of SARNET has to mean a dependable, quality, and as "stand alone" as possible statewide network can't exist. If, IF the amateur community there (42,000 plus) truly believes what they are saying about SARNETs value, the planning meetings should already be underway.

The one challenge in amateur radio is getting everyone to play well together. It's difficult enough to get hams to come to a repeater site to cut grass. Let alone fund capital expenditures like a commercial microwave network. People complain about putting into the kitty to fund purchasing a used Quantar. If you think that's expensive, try contracting a vendor like Aviat or NEC to put in a professional microwave backhaul. Did I mention the licensing and path studies?

I think the talent pool and assets exist there to exceed the service the FDOT arragement provided.

What made this system appealing to FDOT were the technical mindsets of the amateur community (after all, one of the basis and purposes of the amateur radio service is creating a pool of technical persons able to be called upon), but without the resources of a government or large corporate sponsor (read=funding) and sites (these don't come cheap these days!), such a concept is just that: a concept.
I am not in the loop but maybe they have accomplished their mission and are desiring to fund something more suited to their daily operations. I didn't read where SARNET was going away, what I read in the response is that their paid technicians are being tasked with other things and are not to do work on SARNET on the state dime.

As technicians we do what we're told. I have to do all the work on my organizations equipment on my dime. I've spent thousands this year alone. That's how it usually works in ham radio, a small group of folks do the lion's share of the heavy lifting while everyone else benefits and sits on the sidelines.

 

[Bote]

what I read in the response is that their paid technicians are being tasked with other things and are not to do work on SARNET on the state dime.

This has long been known as being penny-wise and pound-foolish.