Getting Started With SDR, What's Needed?

[KC_zero_DSU]

I have never messed around with SDR and have always just had 2 or 3 typical scanners. I've done a little bit of research on SDR, not nearly enough yet. But enough so that I have decided that I'd like to get something set up and going. I'm familiar with scanners, very familiar with computers, pretty comfortable using Linux but as I mentioned never messed with SDR, I feel I should do alright with it though, but wanted some advice on what I need for a proper setup. Is there a setup that would out perform a fully upgraded SDS-200 and then some? Or even be comparable to a IC-R8600 or an AR-6000. Just curious as I don't know what the limitations of SDR are and what all is possible. I'm pretty sure my computer is more than capable of handling whatever is necessary. I just built one around an I9-9980XE on a Gigabyte X299 Aorus Master Mobo. with 64gb ram. I have Windows 10 and Fedora 31 Workstation in dual boot setup. But besides buying the SDR dongle what else should I need for a real good setup? I have plenty of antennas and stuff to make antennas. What sort of SDR or SDR's should I get? What about software? I had heard that OP-25 is the most powerful and can decode P25 phase 2 and much more. And as far as SDR's had heard that the HackRf and AirSpy are really good ones. If it's even possible I'd like something that can do everything a fully upgraded SDS-200 can do only for hopefully quite a bit less money, at least a few hundred bucks cheaper. I'm all hears and want to hear whatever you got to throw at me, even if it's disappointing news. Thanks in advance

 

[Markb]

Well, it might be hard to mimic the capability of the SDS200, you can get close in many aspects. The biggest things are budget and time. You will likely get many different suggestions for how to get started, but here's what I have. My advice would be to start out with a simple RTLSDR dongle. Make sure to get one with the TXCO, so you don't have to worry about frequency drift as much. There is plenty of documentation here and on the rest of the internet on how to get started with one.

As far as software goes, there is a very large number of packages and apps that will do various things, from decoding satellites and aircraft data, to smart meters and TPMS sensors on cars. Not to mention all of the digital modes that you get with the SDS. As far as the "basic" packages go that allow you to tune a frequency and adjust other receive parameters there are several: SDR Console, HDSDR, and SDR# (SDR Sharp) are probably the big 3. In many ways it's Ford Vs. Chevy as far as personal preference. I am not a big SDR# fan, but they do have a large number of plugins that will do various things for you, such as scanning. DSDPlus is one of my heavier-used apps, as it decodes most "popular" digital voice modes (still no P25 P2, yet). It can receive analog and has a rudimentary scanning feature.
Back to hardware, if you want to jump in with both feet, the Airspy or the SDRPlay would be good choices. Some of the parameters you are looking for are bandwidth (how much radio spectrum you can view at once) and ADC (Analog to Digital Coversion) which is 12-14 bit on the higher-end SDR's (at least in the reasonably priced range) the HackRF is only 8 bit if I recall. I own one and it's still not a bad radio, though. If you are mostly deciding digital, even the RTLSDR will do fine.

I am sure people will have more to add, but in summary, computer-based SDR is really a game changer, but not necessarily a replacement for a scanner. I don't say that to discourage you from trying it. If you want to try OP25 and decode P25P2, then go for it. If you use an RTL, you're only out $20-$30. A good antenna and various SMA adapters are a must, as well. With a Raspberry Pi, you can run a radio in your attic or other remote location via TCP, as well.

...I'm kinda rambling at this point. Hopefully that gives you a good starting point.

Mark

 

[BM82557]

''' DSDPlus is one of my heavier-used apps, as it decodes most "popular" digital voice modes (still no P25 P2, yet). It can receive analog and has a rudimentary scanning feature...

Mark

DSDPlus Fastlane has decoded P25 P2 for some time

 

[slicerwizard]

Many misconceptions in the OP's post. For starters, HackRF is not a good SDR for receiving applications. IIRC, its sensitivity is poor and it's not supported by many programs. Expecting SDRs, with their limited front ends, to mimic a high end communications receiver, is a fool's errand. Boatloads of CPU and memory aren't required for many, if any, SDR tasks, otherwise my Atom based netbooks wouldn't be useful for me. Hell, many are using those Raspberry Pi setups; those aren't exactly screamers. And SDR software isn't designed to mimic your SDS200 - we already have real SDS200 scanners that can do that. SDR dongles reduce the cost of signal monitoring and the associated software does stuff that "real" receivers don't - like more comprehensive analysis of systems, more digital voice modes - does your SDS200 handle D-Star? Fusion? Does it decode NXDN or DMR OTA location data? Text messages? NEXEDGE system maps? Monitor more than one signal or conversation at the same time? Does it track aircraft via their ADS-B data bursts? Why should SDRs merely mimic scanners...

 

[KC_zero_DSU]

Many misconceptions in the OP's post. For starters, HackRF is not a good SDR for receiving applications. IIRC, its sensitivity is poor and it's not supported by many programs. Expecting SDRs, with their limited front ends, to mimic a high end communications receiver, is a fool's errand. Boatloads of CPU and memory aren't required for many, if any, SDR tasks, otherwise my Atom based netbooks wouldn't be useful for me. Hell, many are using those Raspberry Pi setups; those aren't exactly screamers. And SDR software isn't designed to mimic your SDS200 - we already have real SDS200 scanners that can do that. SDR dongles reduce the cost of signal monitoring and the associated software does stuff that "real" receivers don't - like more comprehensive analysis of systems, more digital voice modes - does your SDS200 handle D-Star? Fusion? Does it decode NXDN or DMR OTA location data? Text messages? NEXEDGE system maps? Monitor more than one signal or conversation at the same time? Does it track aircraft via their ADS-B data bursts? Why should SDRs merely mimic scanners...

Thanks for pointing those things out, yep I have came to realize those things already after doing further reading after making my original post. As I said though I have a lot of experience with scanners and computers but have never messed with SDR and had no knowledge of their capabilities or limitations. I'd call it ignorance rather than foolishness. The lack of knowing (but willingness to learn). ""Does your SDS200 handle D-Star? Fusion? Does it decode NXDN or DMR OTA location data?..."", Well I wouldn't know as I don't own one so I don't know what it's capabilities and limitations are either. And simply reading about their features while helpful doesn't do it justice. To me, $700 (without DMR, NXDN, etc...) seems like a lot for something that just receives. I like scanners and would like to have an SDS200 or just an SDR that can at least do P25 1 & 2 decode and DMR so I can listen to the systems that are used in my location. But at $700 for an SDS200 I'd rather spend a couple hundred dollars more on an FT-991A or similar radio that I can transmit on too and do much more with, and a SDR and do the IF tap clean install of SDR into FT-991A mod, and be happy.
You pointed out my misconceptions but made no suggestions as to a proper SDR setup. So HackRf is crap, what's good? Software?? Any additional accessory devices???

 

[Markb]

The HackRF works okay, but at this point in time, it is way overpriced for what it does. It was not designed explicitly as a sensitive receiver, but rather more of an RF experimentation tool.

My advice is to buy an RTLSDR or two and start there. If you do Amazon, this is a good choice:

NooElec NESDR Smart v4 SDR - Premium RTL-SDR w/Aluminum Enclosure, 0.5PPM TCXO, SMA Input. RTL2832U & R820T2-Based Software Defined Radio Amazon.com: NooElec NESDR Smart v4 SDR - Premium RTL-SDR w/Aluminum Enclosure, 0.5PPM TCXO, SMA Input. RTL2832U & R820T2-Based Software Defined Radio: Computers & Accessories

If you decide that SDR is your thing, then maybe look at the SDRPlay or airspy.

As far as software, HDSDR or SDR# would be a good place to start. SDR Console is pretty complex and probably fairly intimidating for most just starting out.

DSDPlus Fastlane is inexpensive and a must-have as it decodes most digital modes, including P25P2, as BM82557 reminded me. I don't do much Phase 2 monitoring.

Small steps are the way to go and not to try and bite off more than you can chew.

 

[spongella]

KC-zero-DSU. You came to the right place for information.

Okay, here's a proper SDR setup, one I have used for many years. Buy yourself an SDR dongle from a reputable company like Nooelec. That will give you coverage from about 25 MHz - 1700 MHz. You'll need a decent outdoor antenna, such as a discone or something covering the VHF/UHF band. An example is the Diamond 3000 discone which I use and works well. You'll need a computer to run the software that turns your SDR dongle into a working receiver. Best to start with SDR# which is Freeware. For coaxial cable use RG6 75 ohm, not RG58.

Since dongles come mostly with SMA antenna connectors you will have to buy adapters to go from your RG6 coax to the SMA.

Note that setting up an SDR dongle is not a plug and play operation, there's a bit of a learning curve but once you get the SDR up and running it'll give you lots of listening pleasure.

As for the HackRF, I've had a few. They are much more expensive than an SDR dongle, but coverage goes up to 6 Gigs. They run from the high 200's these days. A simple dongle will cost your around $25.

As for the details on setting up a SDR the best place is here: Quick Start Guide

A new site that is very informative for newcomers and oldcomers alike is: Software-Defined Radio Simplified -

Note that my way is not the only way to set up an SDR. Many options are out there. I hope this helps you to set up your station and that you enjoy SDR.

 

[KC_zero_DSU]

The HackRF works okay......

KC-zero-DSU. You came to the right place for information.
Okay, here's a proper SDR setup

Thank you both for your feedback and to everybody else that's chimed in. I'm definitely going to tinker around with SDR. I'm sure I'll like it as there's a lot of tinkering that can be done and I like to tinker. I may have to wait awhile until spring when business picks back up for me. I do tree work and stump grinding and work is slow or non existent in the winter. I know I can get one on the cheap but I'd like to spend some on some good paid software as well. I need more coax too. I have some LDF4-50A and some LMR-400 and a bunch of RG-8 and a lot of other assorted coax but I really don't want to use that for scanner applications. I usually buy RG-8x or RG-8u for that. And I have boxes and boxes of assorted connectors and other types of cords and cables. I have friends that call me The Cable Guy. I do have a discone antenna that's designed for transmit and receive on 6m, 2m, and 70cm and I've used it on scanners as well and it works great. Anyways, if it really doesn't require a lot of processing power I'd just as soon use one of my laptops rather than tie up my gaming machine. I'm willing to spend a few hundred on an SDR and software and whatever else. I was shopping around and think I'd ultimately like to get the SdrPlay RSPduo or the RSPdx. How do I get DSD+ Fastlane? I don't see a download for it, just DSD+ v1.101 Thanks again

 

[Markb]

DSDPlus.com

 

[maus92]

I use op25 (free) on a spare Intel NUC, and DSD+ Fast Lane (nominal charge) on my Windows 10 workstation. Both work great. OP25 only requires one SDR; I use two with DSD FL, although there is a config that uses only one dongle which I have never set up. OP25 doesn't provide the wealth of ancillary info that DSD does however. I have several Nooelec SDRs, a RTL-SDR, a Flight Aware Orange, and an AirSpy R2. Two Nooelecs are used with DSD; the AirSpy is used with OP25, althought he Nooelec / RTL-SDR are perfectly fine with OP25. BTW, I do not need external antennas - I use a 3" mag antenna stuck to a railing that works perfectly fine on 700 or 800 MHz signals, but I'm well within the operational footprints of the systems I cover. I also use a SDS200 w/GPS in my vehicle, which also works great.

 

[slicerwizard]

I use two with DSD FL, although there is a config that uses only one dongle which I have never set up.

There's nothing to set up. You run the FMP24-CC.bat file and the 1R.bat file...

 

[maus92]

There's nothing to set up. You run the FMP24-CC.bat file and the 1R.bat file...

Well, I set things up ..... Anyway, perhaps I should say I never have used DSD FL with a single dongle.

 

[KC_zero_DSU]

Well, I set things up ..... Anyway, perhaps I should say I never have used DSD FL with a single dongle.

How do I download DSD+ Fastlane? I know I need to donate, but do they send you a link to download it after you donate or how does that work?

 

[R0am3r]

I need more coax too. I have some LDF4-50A and some LMR-400 and a bunch of RG-8 and a lot of other assorted coax but I really don't want to use that for scanner applications. I usually buy RG-8x or RG-8u for that.

You should reconsider the coaxial cable you use for scanners. RG-8x is crap on UHF. Recommend that you look at frequency loss of coaxial cable for VHF/UHF and above. LMR 400 is the better solution.

 

[KC_zero_DSU]

You should reconsider the coaxial cable you use for scanners. RG-8x is crap on UHF. Recommend that you look at frequency loss of coaxial cable for VHF/UHF and above. LMR 400 is the better solution.

Yeah I'm aware of the Db loss of RG-8x compared to LMR-400 and other coax as well. I use 35ft. of RG-8x and 75ft. of RG-8 to my antennas for my HF rig for Tx and Rx. I used to use the LDF4-50A for HF when I had a tall tower and was still rocking a 1.5kw amp. I use the LMR-400 (25 ft of it) for my 2m and 70cm antennas on Tx and Rx. I have some extra LMR-400 but keep it available as I use it for out in the field, it's expensive stuff and not wanting to buy more for scanning purposes. If anything I'd use some of the RG-6 I have for scanning rather than use up my good coax meant more for transmit stations. A 30ft run of RG-6 combined with a good antenna has reasonably low Db loss at 800mhz.
I like your avatar BTW. Spies Like Us is one of my favorite movies.

 

[KC_zero_DSU]

DSDPlus.com

This may seem to be a stupid question but there is something I don't understand about SDR's and software. Is the ability to decode P25 1 & 2, DMR, NXDN, etc... a function and feature of the SDR or is it a function and feature of the software used? If I bought one of those cheapy RTL-SDR ones that's capable of receiving in the 800mhz band where the P25 system I want to scan is located will it be capable of doing that with the right software, or do the SDR's have to be designed to do that? I was thinking I'd buy the RSP1A, will it work to scan and decode that sort of system?

 

[slicerwizard]

SDR hardware is largely just a dumb data pipe. The software does all of the fancy stuff. No different than all of the other things you can do with a PC.

 

[spongella]

This may seem to be a stupid question but there is something I don't understand about SDR's and software. Is the ability to decode P25 1 & 2, DMR, NXDN, etc... a function and feature of the SDR or is it a function and feature of the software used? If I bought one of those cheapy RTL-SDR ones that's capable of receiving in the 800mhz band where the P25 system I want to scan is located will it be capable of doing that with the right software, or do the SDR's have to be designed to do that? I was thinking I'd buy the RSP1A, will it work to scan and decode that sort of system?

Not a dumb question at all KC, that's how we learn, by asking questions. It's a good question too. Those inexpensive SDR dongles were originally marketed to receive television, so they are just a receiver. Decoding of digital signals is accomplished by the software in conjunction with your computer. That's why there's so many different types of software to choose from, depending on the mode you want.

 

[KC_zero_DSU]

Not a dumb question at all KC, that's how we learn, by asking questions. It's a good question too. Those inexpensive SDR dongles were originally marketed to receive television, so they are just a receiver. Decoding of digital signals is accomplished by the software in conjunction with your computer. That's why there's so many different types of software to choose from, depending on the mode you want.

I was leaning more towards that being the case but thanks for solidifying that as the answer I was looking for. So one of those SDS200's, are they kinda like an super fancy SDR with additional hardware and software built in? With their decoding ability based largely on the firmware? Otherwise you would have to buy hardware upgrades for it rather than purchasing unlock pins to unlock parts of the firmware for decoding other modes.
Another question I have is being that you can connect many of these scanners to the computer via USB or serial port is there a way to like SSH in to the scanner and open a shell, issue commands, modify Things etc...?

 

[DRL-XM43]

To see most of the uses for SDR software using cost effective dongles aka radios on a stick take a look through the published list and see if there is anything you are interested in.

The BIG List of RTL-SDR Supported Software

There are now dozens of software defined radio packages that support the ultra cheap RTL-SDR. On this page we will attempt to list, categorize and provide a brief overview of each software program. We categorize the programs into general purpose software, single purpose software, research...

www.rtl-sdr.com

I have utilized most of them using either my Win10 or Linux OS.

Start with a couple of these or likewise

Nooelec - Nooelec NESDR SMArTee v2 SDR - Premium RTL-SDR w/ Aluminum Enclosure, Bias Tee, 0.5PPM TCXO, SMA Input. RTL2832U & R820T2-Based - SDR Receivers - Software Defined Radio

<p>This premium RTL-SDR was <b>designed, developed and fabricated by Nooelec in the USA and Canada</b>, and <b>comes complete with a full 2-year product warranty.</b> <h4><p><b>We designed this SDR from the ground up in order to develop the best low-cost

www.nooelec.com

and a starter antenna setup if you need antenna

Nooelec - Nooelec RaTLSnake M6 v2 - Premium 3-Antenna Bundle for SMA-Input SDRs

<p>The first premium RTL-SDR antenna bundle! Perfect for all SMA-input SDRs like our NESDR SMArt series and HackRF One software defined radios. <p>The heavy-duty antenna base contains an ultra powerful neodymium magnet, which adheres powerfully to any f

www.nooelec.com