Tuscarawas County MARCS

[mtindor]

I am no scanner expert by any stretch of the imagination but what I am picking up on Tusc county after reprogramming my scanner sounds terrible. cuts in and out, cant understand it alot of the time. im not talking about the LE channels. just the fire and EMS. I dont know if i have something programmed wrong or if they just dont have all the bugs worked out quite yet.

If you are programming some scanner other than a Uniden SDS-100 or SDS-200, that makes sense. You're probably suffering from distortion -- typical scanners cannot handle simulcast distortion. The SDS-100 and SDS-200 can. In the absense of having a commercial radio or a Uniden SDS-100/200, you could try using a yagi pointed at the closest tower to you -- or re-orienting your scanner in your listening room. Depending upon where you go in/out of your house, you'll find places where it sounds great and places where it sounds lousy.

Mike

 

[dskeen]

If you are programming some scanner other than a Uniden SDS-100 or SDS-200, that makes sense. You're probably suffering from distortion -- typical scanners cannot handle simulcast distortion. The SDS-100 and SDS-200 can. In the absense of having a commercial radio or a Uniden SDS-100/200, you could try using a yagi pointed at the closest tower to you -- or re-orienting your scanner in your listening room. Depending upon where you go in/out of your house, you'll find places where it sounds great and places where it sounds lousy.

Mike

Thanks for the info! It’s interesting because I have a RS pro 197. I used to hear the OHP crystal clear. Now just everything is sort of bad including them

 

[mtindor]

Thanks for the info! It’s interesting because I have a RS pro 197. I used to hear the OHP crystal clear. Now just everything is sort of bad including them

Correct. Prior to the 3-25 Tuscarawas County Simulcast coming online, any site around there that you would have been listening to would be a standalone (non-simulcast) site. Now the 3-24 New Phila and 3-84 Stone Creek are gone, having been merged in with a bunch of other sites to form a simculast cell. Simulcast cells more often than not have so much distortion present that regular scanners not intended to monitor LSM/CQPSK simulcasts will have significant trouble.

Short answer: you weren't monitoring a simulcast before - so everything was golden. Now that you are monitoring a simulcast consisting of 7+ sites, all transmitting digital signals with time differences, you have issues. Commercial radios are designed to work in that environment. Uniden SDS-100/200 scanners are. No other scanner is.

The idea is to do what you can to get the most signal you can from the site closest to you whilst preventing your scanner antenna from capturing signal from the other sites in the simulcast cell. Some people have better results turning on an ATTenuator -- others have been luck with it off. Some have luck using a yagi to null out as many sites as possible and focus on the strongest site's signal. And re-orienting your scanner so that it naturally is limited to picking up signals from some directions can also help. Sounds counterintuitive, but you have to do crazy things when you are trying to monitor a simulcast site with a scanner that doesn't support it.

Of course, the old system was simulcast too -- the difference is the voice was analog. And it's much easier for your ears to deal with any distortion present in an analog signal.

Mike

 

[dskeen]

Correct. Prior to the 3-25 Tuscarawas County Simulcast coming online, any site around there that you would have been listening to would be a standalone (non-simulcast) site. Now the 3-24 New Phila and 3-84 Stone Creek are gone, having been merged in with a bunch of other sites to form a simculast cell. Simulcast cells more often than not have so much distortion present that regular scanners not intended to monitor LSM/CQPSK simulcasts will have significant trouble.

Short answer: you weren't monitoring a simulcast before - so everything was golden. Now that you are monitoring a simulcast consisting of 7+ sites, all transmitting digital signals with time differences, you have issues. Commercial radios are designed to work in that environment. Uniden SDS-100/200 scanners are. No other scanner is.

The idea is to do what you can to get the most signal you can from the site closest to you whilst preventing your scanner antenna from capturing signal from the other sites in the simulcast cell. Some people have better results turning on an ATTenuator -- others have been luck with it off. Some have luck using a yagi to null out as many sites as possible and focus on the strongest site's signal. And re-orienting your scanner so that it naturally is limited to picking up signals from some directions can also help. Sounds counterintuitive, but you have to do crazy things when you are trying to monitor a simulcast site with a scanner that doesn't support it.

Of course, the old system was simulcast too -- the difference is the voice was analog. And it's much easier for your ears to deal with any distortion present in an analog signal.

Mike

thanks so much for your insight! It’s extremely helpful now that I understand WHY I’m having the problem. I’ll see what I can do using your suggestions to improvement (or dis-improve) my reception. Do you think removing any of the system frequencies would make any difference? For example, only programming in the primary control frequency?

 

[mtindor]

thanks so much for your insight! It’s extremely helpful now that I understand WHY I’m having the problem. I’ll see what I can do using your suggestions to improvement (or dis-improve) my reception. Do you think removing any of the system frequencies would make any difference? For example, only programming in the primary control frequency?

No, removing frequencies swill not help. But, your scanner doesn't require all of the channels -- Only program in the four control channels, leave the other five out. You might not want to say exactly where you are at, but can you give me an idea where you are geographically? I'm just wondering if you are right in the middle of all the sites, or if you are on the edge (and nearer to one and farther away to most others).

Mike

 

[dskeen]

No, removing frequencies swill not help. But, your scanner doesn't require all of the channels -- Only program in the four control channels, leave the other five out. You might not want to say exactly where you are at, but can you give me an idea where you are geographically? I'm just wondering if you are right in the middle of all the sites, or if you are on the edge (and nearer to one and farther away to most others).

Mike

im pretty much smack dab in the middle of tuscarawas county. Dover to be exact. So I’m guessing I’m in the middle of everything

 

[mtindor]

im pretty much smack dab in the middle of tuscarawas county. Dover to be exact. So I’m guessing I’m in the middle of everything

Yeah you are likely surrounded by at least four sites.

The blue sites are part of the simulcast.

Sign in - Google Accounts

Mike

 

[dskeen]

Yeah you are likely surrounded by at least four sites.

The blue sites are part of the simulcast.

Sign in - Google Accounts

Mike

Yeah pretty much what I expected. Well I’ll try your tips and save my pennies for a better scanner someday thanks again!

 

[mtindor]

Yeah pretty much what I expected. Well I’ll try your tips and save my pennies for a better scanner someday thanks again!

I'm only guessing, but you are probably closest to the Seven Mile site. And if you are, you may hit it lucky and be able to copy the simulcast full scale at your location with the ATT(enuator) turned on. And, if you are using a ducky antenna, that would really cut down on signal you might pick up from the other sites. It's probably your cheapest / easiest thing to try. You obviously don't want to turn on the attenuator globally, but you can turn it on just for a specific site in the site's settings I believe. And if so, it really may help you out.

Mike

 

[wa8pyr]

im pretty much smack dab in the middle of tuscarawas county. Dover to be exact. So I’m guessing I’m in the middle of everything

Being in Dover you're really close to the Seven Mile site as Mike mentioned; you may be able to get by just fine with the attenuator, and/or a smaller antenna. You definitely don't want more antenna!

 

[dskeen]

Being in Dover you're really close to the Seven Mile site as Mike mentioned; you may be able to get by just fine with the attenuator, and/or a smaller antenna. You definitely don't want more antenna!

Ive already tried playing with the attenuator, so far not much luck there. still sounds pretty bad. the only antenna i have on it right now is the retractable one that comes with it. i have it shoved all the way down so its not extended. might have to try taking it off or using a paperclip or something.

 

[mtindor]

Ive already tried playing with the attenuator, so far not much luck there. still sounds pretty bad. the only antenna i have on it right now is the retractable one that comes with it. i have it shoved all the way down so its not extended. might have to try taking it off or using a paperclip or something.

You might. If you are in the heart of dover, you are less than three miles away from the SEVEN MILE location. It shouldn't take much to get a good signal with very little antenna. I know it all sounds like a pain, but you really will have to jump through some hoops and play around with things to try and get it to work. It's just the nature of dealing with simulcasts.

Mike

 

[dskeen]

You might. If you are in the heart of dover, you are less than three miles away from the SEVEN MILE location. It shouldn't take much to get a good signal with very little antenna. I know it all sounds like a pain, but you really will have to jump through some hoops and play around with things to try and get it to work. It's just the nature of dealing with simulcasts.

Mike

Yeah. im on the North end of Dover, but still, thats very close. "as the crow files". ill keep tinkering and see what i can come up with.
Thanks for all of the suggestions!

 

[firemantom26]

I may have missed this, but I now see 3.81 Coshocton, 3.82 White Eyes Coshocton, and 3.76 Dellroy as peers/neighbors

 

[Volfirefighter]

Does anyone know what the use is for "46503 Fire Paging 1" Each station has their own paging TG. All I have heard on this TG is test pages.

 

[mtindor]

Does anyone know what the use is for "46503 Fire Paging 1" Each station has their own paging TG. All I have heard on this TG is test pages.

I never pay attention, but do you notice that they were doing tone-outs on FD79PG1 ? On the individual paging talkgroups they are voice paging . Unless I'm missing something, I think FD79PG1 or whatever is for tone-outs, and the others are for just voice paging.

Mike

 

[cfeldbush]

If you are programming some scanner other than a Uniden SDS-100 or SDS-200, that makes sense. You're probably suffering from distortion -- typical scanners cannot handle simulcast distortion. The SDS-100 and SDS-200 can. In the absense of having a commercial radio or a Uniden SDS-100/200, you could try using a yagi pointed at the closest tower to you -- or re-orienting your scanner in your listening room. Depending upon where you go in/out of your house, you'll find places where it sounds great and places where it sounds lousy.

Mike

I am using a Whistler 1065 with a yagi pointed at the closest tower. Are their settings I can adjust from the default values to get the best quality. Not getting all of the audio, and what I do get is still pretty lousy

 

[wa8pyr]

I am using a Whistler 1065 with a yagi pointed at the closest tower. Are their settings I can adjust from the default values to get the best quality. Not getting all of the audio, and what I do get is still pretty lousy

Try turning on the attenuator. If that doesn't help, remove the Yagi and use the smallest antenna you can. Your problem is too much signal, and Yagi antennas, unless they're really long and very directional, can still have fairly decent reception off the sides and back, especially if the yagi isn't designed specifically for the band you're monitoring.

 

[cfeldbush]

I

Try turning on the attenuator. If that doesn't help, remove the Yagi and use the smallest antenna you can. Your problem is too much signal, and Yagi antennas, unless they're really long and very directional, can still have fairly decent reception off the sides and back, especially if the yagi isn't designed specifically for the band you're monitoring.

I have done this with very little improvements, have also adjusted the threshold's high and low on the system and seem to get a little better audio but still most of the time not able to understand anything they are saying. Also to be clear I am only trying to monitor the Fire/EMS talkgroups as I understand all the LE talkgroups are encrypted

 

[mtindor]

Would anyone in Tuscarawas Co (who knows for certain) care to chime in and let us know what Fire/EMS agencies use these talkgroups for routine traffic. (I'm not talking about mutual aid incidents where some agency who does not normally use that talkgroup happens to be on that talkgroup during a mutual aid call).

46580    (79 STRS/WYN FD)           Strasburg Fire/EMS, Dundee Fire/EMS, Beach City FD (Stark)
46584    (79 SOUTH FD)              Newcomerstown Fire & EMS
46678    (79 INDN VLY FD)           Rush Twp FD, Warwick Twp FD, Gnadenhutten Fire & EMS
46779    (79 SMITH PVT)             Smith Ambulance
46800    (79 TWIN CTY FD)           Uhrichsville FD, Dennison Fire/EMS
46810    (79 DOVER FD)              Dover Fire/EMS
46863    (79 SMITH)                 Smith Ambulance
46867    (79 NPFD)                  New Philadelphia Fire/EMS
46868    (79 YRK/STN FD)            York Twp FD, Stonecreek FD
46873    (79 BOL/ZR FD)             Bolivar FD, Zoar FD
46908    (79 SWISS FD)              Sugarcreek FD, Baltic FD, Swiss Valley Joint Ambulance District
46982    (79 NORTH FD)              Fairfield Twp Fire & EMS, Mineral City Fire & EMS

missing:

Delaware Valley Joint Fire District (Port Washington ; Salem Twp)
Midvale Fire & EMS
Sherrodsville Fire & EMS (Carroll Co)



Just wondering where the rest of these fit in as far as thier "home" talkgroup. And yes, I may have some of those agencies listed on the wrong primary talkgroup.