Montgomery County PSSM Program update

Mr_Boh

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Pure speculation, but probably not used a whole ton anyway since IMT is going to be deployed except for "major" stuff anyway. At that point encryption would be important for operational security. The county already has secure talkgroups for incidents that are "sensitive" in nature as it is. You don't need to begin building out a whole IMT unless you expect the operational period to be significant (units on scene for many hours to days).

Somebody who uses something like Unitrunker would be able to tell you how much they get used on the current system as it is. Just because the radio system is changing doesn't necessarily mean that operations are changing.
 

maus92

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The IMT Zone seems likely a reasonable use case for encryption. Their use is for coordination during major, expanding, and ongoing incidents like a hurricane response - or a wildfire out west (and so command buses can talk to each other, lol.)
 

motorcoachdoug

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I can see both sides of the coin for use encryption on IMT and to keep it open as its accountability to the people who local departments serve.
Besides people who are listing just might spot something command is missing and call 911 to let them know.. Hey its a long shot but you know that saying, Never say never...
 

motorcoachdoug

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Looking at the Fleetmap in Zones U i can see the listing of different towers in montgomery and from the 8call90 NIFOG but what are the ems north frequencies and ems south frequencies that are listed? also what are the different tower frequencies listing?
 

maus92

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I can see both sides of the coin for use encryption on IMT and to keep it open as its accountability to the people who local departments serve.
Besides people who are listing just might spot something command is missing and call 911 to let them know.. Hey its a long shot but you know that saying, Never say never...
I believe the Incident Management tgs are more administrative than operational. I would expect tactical activities to take place on regular tgs.
 

motorcoachdoug

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On the P25 command fleetmap for montgomery does anyone know what mutual aid radio system they are using? If you look at the 7H row and you see MedStar,Childrens,INOVA, hospital listings does anyone know what system they are using? is it the DC Hosp for MedStar and Childrens or the NIFOG UHF Hospital channels? and the same for the INOVA Hospital TG are they using the FFX TG number or NIFOG UHF Med Channels?
 

maus92

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On the P25 command fleetmap for montgomery does anyone know what mutual aid radio system they are using? If you look at the 7H row and you see MedStar,Childrens,INOVA, hospital listings does anyone know what system they are using? is it the DC Hosp for MedStar and Childrens or the NIFOG UHF Hospital channels? and the same for the INOVA Hospital TG are they using the FFX TG number or NIFOG UHF Med Channels?
Or a phone or console patch (using landline or backhaul instead of RF resources?)
 

jpb

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On the P25 command fleetmap for montgomery does anyone know what mutual aid radio system they are using? If you look at the 7H row and you see MedStar,Childrens,INOVA, hospital listings does anyone know what system they are using? is it the DC Hosp for MedStar and Childrens or the NIFOG UHF Hospital channels? and the same for the INOVA Hospital TG are they using the FFX TG number or NIFOG UHF Med Channels?

Just because a talkgroup is in a specific zone doesn't mean that they are on the same trunking system. (Perhaps you knew that). MedSTAR and Children's are on the DC trunked system, INOVA Fairfax is on the Fairfax trunked system. Of course, they can also contact the DC and Maryland hospitals via a patch through EMRC.
 

motorcoachdoug

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True about those hospitals being on their own system, would mean that the units have access to those systems to call those hospitals outside of montgomery programmed into the county radios. IF they were going to go thru EMRC they would use the EMRC 1 and EMRC 2 aka the consults channels and not have them listed which tells me then they do have access. Example CO4 and CO15 might make use of the HCH channels the most. I can see INOVA when we have a MCI going on and Suburban is on Trauma bypass.
 

dmi

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I'm not sure why exactly Trunk-Recorder drops calls overnight when the dispatches consolidate on the current SmartNet system. I've tried rebooting, rebuilding from scratch, and it comes to the same conclusion. It's now either a configuration issue, hardware issue, my network/internet is flaky during those hours, or just the way Trunk-Recorder handles the consolidation. I'll continue digging, but I think we just have to hang on for a few more weeks of the calls dropping during the overnight hours before the switchover to P25. If even on the P25 system it's dropping calls, I'll do a complete hardware swap.

That may be because they patch two district Talk groups together (e.g. A2 & A3) which changes the Talkgroup number per Motorola Status bit. So if you are monitoring specific talk group numbers they will change when consolidated dispatch begins. See status bits here


If that's the case, you'd have to program the three patched talk group IDs as well.

J
 
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maus92

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Worth experimenting with, however the software I use to monitor the AACo SmartZone system does not require adding additional tgs - they show their normal tg assignments even when patching. Perhaps the program is making allowances as it will show the patches. Not sure how op25 deals with patches as DNR regularly patches their Area dispatchers together.
 

Mr_Boh

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On the old system and fleet map, italics meant the TG was on someone else's system (although HCGH seems like a typo since that would be on MoCo). Probably still the same since red = encryption too. I almost guarantee that's how they are doing it because think about it this way:
  • If you did a system-level patch every time a unit keyed up on the foreign system, it would key up locally. Example would be for INOVA, you would have to tie up a channel on the Montgomery system every time a Fairfax unit was talking to Fairfax INOVA. That's an unecessary waste of radio system resources, especially when direct consult TGs are honestly kind of low-priority, especially when you can also call via cell phone or have EMRC setup a patch.
  • If you wanted to use a temporary patch so you didn't always tie up a channel, building up and tearing down a patch that was only needed when units were transporting to another hospital would require a dispatcher to perform the action on the console. Also would require the unit to initially request it. More steps = more chances for mess-ups and user frustration.
  • Realistically the range of these systems extend beyond their jurisdictions footprint. Unlikely you are going to be giving a report to Fairfax from Damascus, but you could likely hit Fairfax with a portable from 495, if not a mobile radio would hit it.
  • If you use a foreign system TG, you don't have to teach the nurses/doctors at the receiving hospital how to scan between talkgroups when there are more than one units could call in on.
This is fairly common practice in the area. Other examples are Loudoun units will use Fairfax system when transporting into Fairfax, Prince William going into Fairfax, etc. Just less common to see in Maryland because plenty of counties are still using the traditional method of calling EMRC for EVERYTHING (PG and Frederick come to mind), whereas Montgomery provides a way to key up directly and just say, "hey we are enroute with a low priority patient" since a general low-priority sick person doesn't require the hospital to extend more effort than possibly redirecting the ambulance to go right to the general triage area.
 

maus92

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Makes sense to work directly on a foreign system as long as the field units understand what is going on, and the footprints of that system. That said, I can receive the Fairfax and Howard systems in Rockville; and the DC system generally within the confines of the Capital Beltway. With the exception of Children's and Medstar trauma, most units that would transport to a foreign facility would likely be first due in the area bordering those jurisdictions, like BCCRS, Cabin John, Burtonsville and Sandy Spring.
 

motorcoachdoug

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Unless we had a MCI example Metro Train crash in Rockville or Beth where unites would need to travel to MedStar, Children's,INOVA,Balt Shock Trauma, plus the hospitals in the county if Suburban had to many Pt to start out with. Then the metro mutual aid compact would come into play as well. I remember the snowstorm back in the mid 90's when snow was up to your tush and a metro train caught fire in silver spring. I heard the call go out and unites came from DC,PG and FairFax plus If i remember right 12 kids lost their lives to fire. they were trapped and could not get out and rescue was delayed to the train being in the woods with no roads nearby to get to it, and snow was at 3 to 4 ft as well. That was an awfull day by the time that incident was over...
 

maus92

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Unless we had a MCI example Metro Train crash in Rockville or Beth where unites would need to travel to MedStar, Children's,INOVA,Balt Shock Trauma, plus the hospitals in the county if Suburban had to many Pt to start out with. Then the metro mutual aid compact would come into play as well. I remember the snowstorm back in the mid 90's when snow was up to your tush and a metro train caught fire in silver spring. I heard the call go out and unites came from DC,PG and FairFax plus If i remember right 12 kids lost their lives to fire. they were trapped and could not get out and rescue was delayed to the train being in the woods with no roads nearby to get to it, and snow was at 3 to 4 ft as well. That was an awfull day by the time that incident was over...
I would imagine that neighboring jurisdictions have well resourced zones for each other's systems, particularly since just about every NCR jurisdiction has a P25 system or subscribers with both SmartZone and P25 P1 / P2 (TDMA is an additional feature on APX) options installed. I'd also expect eventual adoption of MD Tac channels by non-Maryland NCR jurisdictions as well - there's talk of putting a FIRST site on the Hughes tower in DC.
 
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maus92

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If anyone is interested sounds like they were testing different types of tones on TG: 4000 7A1
The first two are identical to what is used in Anne Arundel County; the third more buzzy alert tone is not used here, nor have I heard it before in other systems.
 

Bjc123

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Yeah the Burrr Burrr Burr Tone is used on the current P16 system. Its the general message tone so for example:

CAD Malfunction
Station Alerting System Malfunction
Severe Weather Alert
Blue Alert
Red Alert
 
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