Yaesu: FTM400XDR: power requirement

[tweiss3]

Does anyone know the actual operating voltage range of the FTM400 radios? It's listed as 13.8v nominal.

My CS800D which is in the car is listed as 13.8v +-20%. This gives the range of 11.4 to 16.8.

Long story short, new to me radio was bench tested for almost 2 weeks with zero issues. I don't usually leave things on all the time, but I did leave it on for 3 days straight by accident. Yesterday I tossed it in the car and part way through my errands screen flashes white, goes blank and power is off. I'm able to power it back on without issue.

I check all connections and cables, pull them off and reconnect everything. I used the cable from the CS800D (T plug) that has had zero issues. Get on with my errands and it happens 3 more times before I get home.

I though it it might be related to road bumps, but today confirmed it's not. I cannot tie it to any operation, automatic or manual, or any timeframe. I checked to verify the fan is still working, temps not very warm, and nothing is up against the remote unit.

Someone mentioned could be voltage sensitivity, but the specs listed are not very specific. I may get a chance today to pull out my scan tool and check the voltage of the car and alternator output, but it hasn't dropped below 12, cause otherwise the car would freak out.

 

[n9upc]

I would first start off by looking at the variables that have changed between your 'bench test' and your install.

Many people use the FTM-400 as a node or leave it on for long periods of time. In your description leaving it on for three days would not have an impact if it was on a constant power supply of the correct voltage and amperage.

I would look at your connection and cable between the radio and the radio head. Is it the actual cable that came with the radio? Are the connectors seated? Do not use other cables as they can be wired wrong (if I had a nickel for those damaging radios because of home made or eBay/Amazon cables I could retire).

If it still acts up testing it on your bench then I would call technical support. They can be reached via the Contacr US page on the Yaesu website or via calling 714 827-7600.

 

[presw]

I would look to see if it is powering off when you, (or the APRS beacon), transmit. Is it set to high power? Have you verified a very stout "12"V power supply (not cigarette lighter)?

 

[prcguy]

Did you start the vehicle with the radio on? That can pull battery voltage way lower than 11 volts. In my last vehicle most of my radios would reset when I started the engine when the radios were already on. I later added a huge capacitor for a 500W HF amplifier, around 15 Farads near the radio power distribution and never experienced a power reset when starting the vehicle again.

 

[tweiss3]

So, I managed to both catch it on video, and do quite a bit more diagnostic on the car. First things first, power is via a relay harness straight from the battery, switch is under the dash. Harness is rated for 30A, with a 20A fuse in right now. I don't turn the radio on until the car has started.

Secondly, I did pull the test equipment out, and the battery (only 1 year old) tested in good shape under the stress test, and the charging system is working properly. I also have nothing acting up on the vehicle (no pending codes, etc.).

Thirdly, I remembered you can put the perceived voltage on the screen where the time goes. I did that and watch it while out running around. Normal it runs between 12.5v and 14.8v, which is normal for a car. Also, when the APRS beacon hits (on high) there is a voltage drop, but it only drops to 11.5v at the lowest, which should still be in acceptable range (and what I would think is normal).

Finally I caught it on camera, after 90 minutes of running around. It did NOT occur while hitting a bump. Voltage was 12.7v, and it was not during an APRS beacon. This was 1 minute after the beacon, which was on a 5minute interval. See the video on my google drive: FMT400XDR Shutting Off.mp4

To answer all the questions I have received:

I would first start off by looking at the variables that have changed between your 'bench test' and your install.

Many people use the FTM-400 as a node or leave it on for long periods of time. In your description leaving it on for three days would not have an impact if it was on a constant power supply of the correct voltage and amperage.

I would look at your connection and cable between the radio and the radio head. Is it the actual cable that came with the radio? Are the connectors seated? Do not use other cables as they can be wired wrong (if I had a nickel for those damaging radios because of home made or eBay/Amazon cables I could retire).

If it still acts up testing it on your bench then I would call technical support. They can be reached via the Contacr US page on the Yaesu website or via calling 714 827-7600.

The only change between bench and the car is where its powered, and the vibrations. The cables are extension cables, I verified they are pinned identically to the stock cable. I needed a minimum 15' extension for the microphone, similar for the head and it came with a 20' for the head, which did not have any issues in the shack. I did this afternoon go back to the car and was going to re-route it so the stock head cable could be used, but it has a slice in it and won't even power up. I may have to call technical support later this week.

I would look to see if it is powering off when you, (or the APRS beacon), transmit. Is it set to high power? Have you verified a very stout "12"V power supply (not cigarette lighter)?

No, I have zero problems with the beacon set at high power. The radio is hardwired to the battery, no cigarette lighter power for me.

Did you start the vehicle with the radio on? That can pull battery voltage way lower than 11 volts. In my last vehicle most of my radios would reset when I started the engine when the radios were already on. I later added a huge capacitor for a 500W HF amplifier, around 15 Farads near the radio power distribution and never experienced a power reset when starting the vehicle again.

I do not start the car with the radio on. I have had problems with that before. This shutting off is only mid trip, and pretty randomly.

I'm going to run it this week to see if I can find any other issue or symptom and touch base with Yaesu, unless I get another place to look before then.

 

[AK9R]

Does anyone know the actual operating voltage range of the FTM400 radios? It's listed as 13.8v nominal.

Typically, for a VHF/UHF mobile radio, it's 13.8 VDC +/- 15%. By comparison, the FT-8800R manual says 13.8 VDC +/- 15%.

 

[vagrant]

I have two FTM400's. Both use the Yaesu supplied cable for the head. I do use aftermarket extension cables and couplers for the microphones. It is silly that a mic extension cable is not included...with a 100% remote head radio, as well as the $40+ price for an official Yaesu six pin RJ11 mic extension cable and a coupler. Yaesu brought that problem on themselves, or gave one to the customer. It is also silly that a external fan is extremely prudent if using 50W with these radios, especially on UHF and one transmits for extended periods. ( Don't rag chew at 50W ) Additionally, there is the poor performing GPS on the 400DR which resulted in the release of the 400XDR.

Other than that lameness, I like the radio. I have also never experienced that weird screen flashing white and then shutting down. If anything, I would say it is the aftermarket head cable that may be the source of the problem. R&L currently have one in stock for $45. It is the official Yaesu CT-162 separation cable. While I am fine with testing aftermarket mic cables, I would use the Yaesu one for the control head if mine was damaged.

 

[hill]

If it is working like this most likely an issue with the radio. I know a few hams that have issues with this radio and had to have a trip to Yaesu for repair.

I use a cheap Ebay mic extension cable and been in service for a few years with no issue, plus it's only a few dollars.

 

[Firekite]

I use a cheap Ebay mic extension cable and been in service for a few years with no issue, plus it's only a few dollars.

I just use a generic 6C flat phone cable as an extension, and it works great. I can’t imagine that’s the problem. I do that because I use an XLR-style keystone mount with a “CAT 3” (6P6C) coupler snapped into it on the top of the dash for the head and one lower on the front of the dash for the mic. The body is under the driver’s seat. The back side of the couplers get a 6C flat phone cable to go from there to the radio body. I cut the head control cable in included with the radio and crimes on a 6P connector to snap in, and put a 4P connector on the other side to snap into the radio in the usual place. It’s not magic, really. The included separation cable is plenty long enough to sacrifice thaf 8” or so and still work if I decide to move the radio into the shack, just crimping on a new 4P4C connector.

If the cables aren’t crimped well or otherwise have a fracture fault if some sort, it should really slow up over bumps or never work at all. I have a feeling his radio or head has simply developed a problem. The easy way to check is hook it back up with the factory cable and see if anything changes. Intermittent and unpredictable problems are the worst

 

[popnokick]

Late last year Yaesu released a couple of firmware updates for the FTM400XDR. I couldn't find release notes for what the firmware changes / fixes were. But your description of the problem suggests that a firmware update should not be ruled out... unless of course you are certain you are using the latest firmware.

 

[tweiss3]

I just use a generic 6C flat phone cable as an extension, and it works great. I can’t imagine that’s the problem. I do that because I use an XLR-style keystone mount with a “CAT 3” (6P6C) coupler snapped into it on the top of the dash for the head and one lower on the front of the dash for the mic. The body is under the driver’s seat. The back side of the couplers get a 6C flat phone cable to go from there to the radio body. I cut the head control cable in included with the radio and crimes on a 6P connector to snap in, and put a 4P connector on the other side to snap into the radio in the usual place. It’s not magic, really. The included separation cable is plenty long enough to sacrifice thaf 8” or so and still work if I decide to move the radio into the shack, just crimping on a new 4P4C connector.

If the cables aren’t crimped well or otherwise have a fracture fault if some sort, it should really slow up over bumps or never work at all. I have a feeling his radio or head has simply developed a problem. The easy way to check is hook it back up with the factory cable and see if anything changes. Intermittent and unpredictable problems are the worst

Thanks. I'm picking up a new Yaesu cable today from DX, we will see if it fixes my issue.

Late last year Yaesu released a couple of firmware updates for the FTM400XDR. I couldn't find release notes for what the firmware changes / fixes were. But your description of the problem suggests that a firmware update should not be ruled out... unless of course you are certain you are using the latest firmware.

I am certain I have the latest firmware, updated myself right after I verified it worked on the bench prior to programming it.

 

[tweiss3]

So it's been an entire week since I put it all back together in the car with the intention of using a Yaesu cord. After finding the standard cord damaged, I did use the extension cord. I also picked up a new Yaesu cord from DX Engineering, which is still in the box.

I have had zero issues this week, and the radio has been on the entire time I've been in the car, which is a pretty significant number of hours. It could have been a fluke, or could have been plugged in incorrectly. Either way, I'm going to leave it until it causes a problem again. When (if) that happens, I will swap it out for the new Yaesu cord.