FCC License Waiver?

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KK6HRW

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H/T radios, transmitting in the two meter Amateur Band, were used by a (non-radio) club to coordinate their outdoor event. This club stated that they had permission from the FCC to allow their un-licensed members to use a specific set of frequencies during this time.

is this a common FCC practice?
 

nd5y

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is this a common FCC practice?
Not for something like that when all the event organizer would have to do is rent some radios.
The Commission may waive specific requirements of its rules upon request. Grant of a waiver request requires a showing that:
1. The underlying purpose of the rule(s) would not be served or would be frustrated by application to the instant case, and that a grant of the requested waiver would be in the public interest; or
2. In view of unique or unusual factual circumstances of the instant case, application of the rule(s) would be inequitable, unduly burdensome or contrary to the public interest, or the applicant has no reasonable alternative.



You could always search the FCC ULS for STA applications/licenses and the waivers issued recently in whatever location this occurred.
 

AM909

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Specified Search
Authorization Type = STA
Effective Date from 01/01/2000 to 09/19/2021
Frequency Upper Band >= 144
Frequency Assigned <= 148
Matches 1- 4 (of 4 )



Call Sign/Lease ID​
Name​
FRN​
Radio Service​
Status​
Expiration Date​
1 WQCX385 INDIANAPOLIS MOTOR SPEEDWAY, LLC 0007393630 GO Expired 06/19/2005
2 WQFC972 Indianapolis Motor Speedway, LLC 0007393630 IG Expired 07/02/2006
3 WQHA221 Indianapolis Motor Speedway, LLC 0007393630 IG Expired 06/17/2007
4 WQHA223 Indianapolis Motor Speedway, LLC 0007393630 IG Expired 06/17/2007
 

mmckenna

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H/T radios, transmitting in the two meter Amateur Band, were used by a (non-radio) club to coordinate their outdoor event. This club stated that they had permission from the FCC to allow their un-licensed members to use a specific set of frequencies during this time.

is this a common FCC practice?

STA's are fairly common, but not on the amateur radio bands for regular voice comms.

Someone was very likely feeding you a load of BS. Easier to spread BS than to just own up to the facts.

On that note, my son and I were in a popular OHV park yesterday. Some big Jeep event going on. Lots of traffic on 146.430MHz and -zero- call signs. Baofeng crowd with crappily installed antennas. Seems to be very common with the off road crowd.
 

AK9R

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The STAs that AM909 reference above were for very short terms to accommodate European race teams who were competing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
Someone was very likely feeding you a load of BS. Easier to spread BS than to just own up to the facts.

On that note, my son and I were in a popular OHV park yesterday. Some big Jeep event going on. Lots of traffic on 146.430MHz and -zero- call signs. Baofeng crowd with crappily installed antennas. Seems to be very common with the off road crowd.
I agree with the BS assessment.

As for off-roaders using Baofengs on 2m frequencies, the cat is well and truly out of the bag and there's not anything that legitimate amateur radios operators can do about it.
 

AM909

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Why do they choose 2m instead of the "dot" and other itinerant channels available for this purpose? Aren't some of them even unlicensed now? I doubt there's much risk in the FCC wandering around and checking for type-acceptance (if that's an issue). Are there organizations that we, as communicators, should be pushing to get their members to do the right (or less wrong) thing? I doubt the users care whether they're using 154.54 or 146.52.
 

mmckenna

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Why do they choose 2m instead of the "dot" and other itinerant channels available for this purpose? Aren't some of them even unlicensed now?

None of them are unlicensed. 5 of the VHF 'color dot' frequencies went to 'license by rule' under MURS. They are limited to 2 watts and narrow band.
It would be a perfect place for this sort of use, but it's probably easier to just jump on ham radio.

I've found that some hams even encourage this.

I doubt there's much risk in the FCC wandering around and checking for type-acceptance (if that's an issue).

It's not. And it's confusing for most to even comprehend the type acceptance thing.



Are there organizations that we, as communicators, should be pushing to get their members to do the right (or less wrong) thing? I doubt the users care whether they're using 154.54 or 146.52.

There are plenty of usable radio services for this kind of stuff:
CB
FRS
GMRS
MURS

But when the average knuckle head looks at those radios, they either see the "Up to ## miles range" thing, or they see 'watts', as in CB radio. Those that don't understand assume that 'more watts must be better' and simply buy off of that.
Then there's the Cheap Chinese Radios. They see them on Amazon, or their friend buys them, and it just snowballs from there.

There are some really good commercial quality MURS radios that would work great.
There's good GMRS radios that would work well.
And if CB'ers could understand what it takes to make a CB work well, that would help a lot of people.
 

Duckford

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None of them are unlicensed. 5 of the VHF 'color dot' frequencies went to 'license by rule' under MURS. They are limited to 2 watts and narrow band.
It would be a perfect place for this sort of use, but it's probably easier to just jump on ham radio.

I've found that some hams even encourage this.



It's not. And it's confusing for most to even comprehend the type acceptance thing.





There are plenty of usable radio services for this kind of stuff:
CB
FRS
GMRS
MURS

But when the average knuckle head looks at those radios, they either see the "Up to ## miles range" thing, or they see 'watts', as in CB radio. Those that don't understand assume that 'more watts must be better' and simply buy off of that.
Then there's the Cheap Chinese Radios. They see them on Amazon, or their friend buys them, and it just snowballs from there.

There are some really good commercial quality MURS radios that would work great.
There's good GMRS radios that would work well.
And if CB'ers could understand what it takes to make a CB work well, that would help a lot of people.

I really like my Uniden 401HH handhelds. They have worked well for limited use on the property up here in the hills, excellent little, simple CB HT's. Not only are they a simple no frills HT without any options and extra buttons beyond channel selection and squelch and volume (for good and bad), they are also the cheapest type accepted, or non type accepted for that matter, CB HT on the market. You are lucky to find them for ~$42, more like $45-50, especially with all types of radios, including CB, flying off the shelf.

So you ask Johnny Knucklehead "why don't you get yourself a nice CB HT in a legal band where you don't need a license and are in the right place in things", and then when ol Johnny looks up the price of a Baofegn and the 401HH, much less the Cobra 50 or President's new fangled fancy CB HT at over $130, and the he looks at those out of band illegal non type accepted Baofengs at $20, you have most the argument.

Johnny will say "I can buy two Baofengs for the price of one 401HH! Plus it has a lot more fancy things and frequencies, and all my buddies have $20 cheapo radios too!". Even if ol Johnny wanted to try to comply with band services on some personal level, he eventually succumbs to market forces of cheap radios, and bad influences of his friends who also use said illegal radios.

Oh, and what about GMRS and MURS which have less compromised rubber duckies on them, and fancy FM? Oh, type accepted radios, even from China, are more expensive and more limited than the $20 non type accepted ones. If Johnny wants to do GMRS or MURS, he is more likely to just use his non type accepted Baofeng on those frequencies, STILL. Because $20.

The market won this one. Dump enough cheap radios on a market and don't be surprised when this type of stuff happens.

And I still can't believe these kids want to play in the Ham bands, when it is at least a smarter and better idea to run those Baofengs on MURS and GMRS. A lessor evil if anything.
 

AK9R

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A couple of years ago, Radioddity sent me a "locked" Baofeng UV5R. Yes, it would only tune the ham bands. Power output was also limited to less than 2 watts. I found an unlock procedure online which removed the ham band limitation and the power output limitation.

However, the issue I see is that if you sell a "locked" Baofeng to someone who knows nothing about radio, they, in their ignorance, are just going to use it on the amateur radio bands. They may even going to make up some story about why its legal for them to do so. Hence, the original premise of this thread. Our federal government, through various customs, trade, and telecommunications authorities, have done us no favors. And, it's too late to fix it now.
 
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Firekite

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And, it's too late to fix it now.
Is it? I guess it depends on what needs fixing and what counts as a fix. Amateur radios have always been available to the public to purchase and use. I think the main difference now is that they’re more widely accessible (Amazon, eBay, et al) and wildly cheaper. Put that together with a surge in prepper culture who don’t need no stinkin’ badge and an increase in people “doing their research” by googling to find someone who says what they want to hear (in this case that it’s fine to use them however they want), and you have a glut of CCRs in unlicensed hands. The saving grace is that for most it’s just a phase, and their junk just rots in a bag or drawer. Or, in a handful of cases, they actually get interested in actual amateur radio and join the community. Hopefully those few are the cream rising to the top and not just turds floating to the surface.

it would be nice for these manufacturers and vendors to clearly state in big bold letters that an active license is required for use, so no one can use ignorance as an excuse, but that might ward off some sales, so they won’t unless forced.

In the case of a bicycle club lying about having a waiver from the FCC, I guess I don’t really know what can be done about it unless the FCC itself decides to get involved and make an example. I don’t see that happening, but I’ve been wrong before.
 

AK9R

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The first amateur radio handheld I purchased was a Yaesu FT-23R. I was not licensed and I intended to have it modded for out-of-band transmit because, well, just because. I bought it from an inside vendor (a legitimate brick and mortar store, at the time) at the Dayton Hamvention in 1989, maybe 1990. I told the guy at the counter what I wanted, he grabbed the box, started to write the sales slip, then asked me for my callsign. I said "I don't have one". He continued to write the sales slip, took my money, and handed over the box.

But, I knew that I should not use that radio to transmit on amateur radio frequencies until I got my license which I did a few years later. I also knew that it was a violation of FCC rules to use that radio to transmit on VHF business frequencies. I still did it because I was pretty sure I wouldn't get caught.

The difference today is that these cheap, Chinese radios are very inexpensive and readily available. I think my FT-23R was about $200 plus the $25 that I paid a guy to mod it. Compare that to a $25 CCR. Also, I had to go to an amateur radio dealer and face the scowl of the guy behind the counter to buy my radio. There was no Amazon and no eBay back then. Is low price and availability a bad thing for amateur radio? Heck no. But, purchasers still need to understand that what they are doing is potentially illegal and they might get caught...as a certain seller of CCRs to the off-road community did recently.
 
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