2021 - Kansas City Metro Area MARRS P25 Trunked Radio System

[bctrainers]

Update: Platte County Sheriff's Office will be switching to full-time encryption at some point. In the past, the Sheriff was very much against full-time encryption on the primary dispatch talkgroups (34100 and 34101). It appears he has changed his mind based on the events that transpired earlier this year (George Floyd protests/riots). See the attached MARC document. Still unclear about Clay County agencies.

Wish more agencies would swap to a talk group layout like what we have in JoCo in regards to police stuff. It's a fair balance IMHO.

PD 1 / Primary Dispatch - Clear
PD 2 / Secondary - Enc
PD 3 / Talk Around / Info - Enc
PD Admin - Enc
Tac 1 - Enc
Tac 2 - Enc

Where PD 1 is dispatched calls and en-route info for responding units. PD 2 and PD 3 are used for info, talk around, etc. Tac 1, Tac 2 are tactical PD groups that generally are patched (supergroup'd) into a PS Tac 01-20 channel.

Oh well, each agency to their own.

 

[PVPD730]

Wish more agencies would swap to a talk group layout like what we have in JoCo in regards to police stuff. It's a fair balance IMHO.

PD 1 / Primary Dispatch - Clear
PD 2 / Secondary - Enc
PD 3 / Talk Around / Info - Enc
PD Admin - Enc
Tac 1 - Enc
Tac 2 - Enc

Where PD 1 is dispatched calls and en-route info for responding units. PD 2 and PD 3 are used for info, talk around, etc. Tac 1, Tac 2 are tactical PD groups that generally are patched (supergroup'd) into a PS Tac 01-20 channel.

Oh well, each agency to their own.

Seems like a very fair balance to me. I wish the powers that be elsewhere would go the same route.

 

[KCoax]

Update: Platte County Sheriff's Office will be switching to full-time encryption at some point. In the past, the Sheriff was very much against full-time encryption on the primary dispatch talkgroups (34100 and 34101). It appears he has changed his mind based on the events that transpired earlier this year (George Floyd protests/riots). See the attached MARC document. Still unclear about Clay County agencies.

Any word on which Railroad Company they were talking about?

 

[PVPD730]

Any word on which Railroad Company they were talking about?

KC Southern

 

[blueangel-eric]

Correct. An over-the-air radio update appears to have happened around 4 AM to 8 AM on August 11th. During that time, radio techs from (what I have logged anyways) BPU, JoCo, KC, and MARC were busy bees kicking on/testing Encryption, or at least ensuring encryption was still functioning.

• JoCoECC's Tac 4 to Tac 9 appeared to get updates/checks to be able to talk on RegCom Secure talk groups. (Never will understand ECC's decision to slap the big E on fire ground TG's - but to each their own.)
  • Interestingly on this one, seen a couple of other channels for JoCo kick up. 30188, 30187 - seems to be JoCo Radio techs only TG's.
• On the JaxCo side, TG 33149 was getting expansive usage from radio techs during the whole ordeal - all E.
• Additionally, JaxCo / KCPD's core talk groups look to be vastly encrypted now. It's really unfortunate, but a certain protest last year sorta was the event that broke the horses back on that. :/
  • KCPD ALL Call/Announce, Shoal Creek, North, South, East, Metro, Traffic, Center zones, Most SP & PT Ops, all appear to be nearly-full-time E now. However, seems to be user-selective encryption/secure mode (which is a bit awkward).
• ClayCoSo talk groups 34300, 34301, 34305, 34307, 34308, and 34309 had radio techs on them. E was observed on 34309 - if that's an actual talk group for them.

why did the protest caused them to need encryption? does the protesters listen to the radio traffic? Even if i they did how would it change anything? Was that the protest where police cars got torched and burned down around West Plaza?

 

[blueangel-eric]

Update: Platte County Sheriff's Office will be switching to full-time encryption at some point. In the past, the Sheriff was very much against full-time encryption on the primary dispatch talkgroups (34100 and 34101). It appears he has changed his mind based on the events that transpired earlier this year (George Floyd protests/riots). See the attached MARC document. Still unclear about Clay County agencies.

How does the protestsand riots require going to encryption? Was the protesters listening to the police? Sucks that protests and riots ruin it for the radio hobbyists.

 

[bctrainers]

why did the protest caused them to need encryption? does the protesters listen to the radio traffic? Even if i they did how would it change anything? Was that the protest where police cars got torched and burned down around West Plaza?

FWIW: I'd rather not turn this into an Enc vs non-Enc debate - RR frowns upon that here.

Anyhow to give you a slightly more detailed event line... TLDR first: People were listening to KCPD's radio traffic in regards to crowd control, command post, etc, and were actively pushing/evading boundaries to get around KCPD.

A person who came to the protest in the park (I even seen this on the TV/video feed) - I believe on the second or third day of protesting, had a portable radio with them, listening to KCPD radio traffic, blasting it for all to hear while they were in the park and marched about. They were broadcasting the SPOps & RegCom channels. Once that became apparent, one of the sargent's (I believe) at the event came over the radio and told officers to flip on their encryption toggle on the radios. Those who couldn't get encryption to work, were being asked to call other officers via cell.

Just like that, it signaled the end of clear-air radio traffic from KCPD. From the protests onward, encryption usage and uptake on the KCPD system rapidly began to increase. This past August was the final nail to the coffin, the book was closed regarding KCPD no longer being clear-air. I just hope KCPD was kind enough to TV channels and provided them with radios...

Additionally, a KCPD audio stream online was proactively streaming non-dispatch radio traffic (there was a FB stream along with another source). From what I could hear on the audio, it definitely was not due to a supergroup/patch tied into a KCPD 'zone' - it was their SPOps/Regcom patches. This additionally added more fuel to the fire for the rapid rollout of encryption on KCPD's end.

At the end of the day, after all of that had transpired, it resulted in KCPD's leadership to rollout encryption rapidly. It was planned for 2022 at some point, but as you can see - it was fast-tracked. Other agencies on the MARRS system have contemplated doing the same since the 2020 protesting event. Additionally, it resulted in new RegCom channels being added, some are selective encryption, and many are hard-locked secure mode. In due time, I wouldn't be surprised to see a majority of the KC MARRS network becoming fully encrypted for police talk groups.

 

[AB5ID]

Anyone else seeing encrypted traffic on Reg comm 3 (TG 34006). 06DEC201 @ 8:30pm???

 

[Papagei]

Anyone else seeing encrypted traffic on Reg comm 3 (TG 34006)

I don't log audio or E status, so I'm not sure, but I did see some activity on Reg Com 3 from about 20:20 to 20:40. It seems to have involved the KCMO PD, including a helicopter, plus a brief conversation with MODOT.

Before KCPD pushed that big E button, I would sometimes hear traffic on their "regular" (not Reg Com) talkgroups where one officer would be E and others would be in the clear. Sometimes when that happened it sounded like the sergeant/boss/supervisor was E and the worker-bees were clear.

This makes me think that at least some officers have the ability to push that button on their own, and the system can't "un-push" it for them, even on talkgroups that are normally meant to be clear. Maybe that's what you heard.

 

[hkrharry]

Ya heard it just a bit ago, Unknown agency, I will have to check the loggers and see if I can figure out who was on.

HH

 

[hkrharry]

Yes, it appears all the "E" traffic I saw on the logger was from KCMO PD, 690, East zone, Metro zone, Traffic units.
So whatever pursuit it was originated in KCMO and KCMOPD were the primary and it was all encrypted.
Started at 2021hrs and ended at approx 2039 hrs.

HH

 

[AB5ID]

(deleted) redundant

 

[AB5ID]

Yes, it appears all the "E" traffic I saw on the logger was from KCMO PD, 690, East zone, Metro zone, Traffic units.
So whatever pursuit it was originated in KCMO and KCMOPD were the primary and it was all encrypted.
Started at 2021hrs and ended at approx 2039 hrs.

HH

Looking at FlightAware N690PD was circling 435 and Raytown road at that time.

 

[PVPD730]

Anyone else seeing encrypted traffic on Reg comm 3 (TG 34006). 06DEC201 @ 8:30pm???

The last thing I read is Reg Com 3-14 should remain in the clear. 15-28 are the new ones that have partial and full-time encryption.

I don't log audio or E status, so I'm not sure, but I did see some activity on Reg Com 3 from about 20:20 to 20:40. It seems to have involved the KCMO PD, including a helicopter, plus a brief conversation with MODOT.

Before KCPD pushed that big E button, I would sometimes hear traffic on their "regular" (not Reg Com) talkgroups where one officer would be E and others would be in the clear. Sometimes when that happened it sounded like the sergeant/boss/supervisor was E and the worker-bees were clear.

This makes me think that at least some officers have the ability to push that button on their own, and the system can't "un-push" it for them, even on talkgroups that are normally meant to be clear. Maybe that's what you heard.

Once of my sources at a neighboring department said that KCPD's talkgroups aren't "strapped" or forced encrypted. Dispatchers and Officers still have the ability to switch the encryption on and off. Dispatchers will routinely switch to clear voice to broadcast "attempt to locate" and "traffic violator" messages. Once they're done, they switch back to encrypted mode. One of the dispatchers I know over there confirmed this. They still have the ability to switch to clear voice but they choose not to.

 

[Papagei]

Once of my sources at a neighboring department said that KCPD's talkgroups aren't "strapped" or forced encrypted.

Do you know if it's within the capabilities of the radio system to have a talkgroup that's forced *un*encrypted? In other words, if a user has their radio in E mode, selects that talkgroup, and pushes the transmit button, either their radio goes "bzzt" and refuses to transmit, or it does transmit but in the clear?

I can think of a couple of reasons why you wouldn't want this. One is that if someone thinks they are transmitting E, it's probably a bad idea to "silently" change it to clear voice. The other is that in an emergency situation, you don't want the user to have to futz with the radio much - they should be able to press transmit and get heard right now. (In that situation, the people that are listening and can do something about it *probably* have E capability anyway.)

I'm just curious if it's something Ma Batwings (or equal) lets you do, if you want to set the system up that way.

 

[PVPD730]

Do you know if it's within the capabilities of the radio system to have a talkgroup that's forced *un*encrypted? In other words, if a user has their radio in E mode, selects that talkgroup, and pushes the transmit button, either their radio goes "bzzt" and refuses to transmit, or it does transmit but in the clear?

There are several talkgroups that are setup for clear voice only. If a user has their radio knob switched to Ø (encrypted position) and they key up on a forced clear talkgroup, their transmissions will be unencrypted. It works the other way around, too. If they have their knob switched to clear voice and they key up on an forced encrypted group, their transmissions will be encrypted assuming the radio is keyed properly.

I can think of a couple of reasons why you wouldn't want this. One is that if someone thinks they are transmitting E, it's probably a bad idea to "silently" change it to clear voice. The other is that in an emergency situation, you don't want the user to have to futz with the radio much - they should be able to press transmit and get heard right now. (In that situation, the people that are listening and can do something about it *probably* have E capability anyway.)

Yes. It really comes down to training the end users on how to use the radio equipment, and agency policy. If there's a talkgroup that allows for encrypted and unencrypted voice, the officers or other users should know when it's permissible to use encryption and when it isn't. Clay County Sheriff's Office is a good example. The way I understand their policy is that transmissions on the dispatch talkgroups are to be clear voice only (unless there's an incident that necessitates switching to encrypted voice). Most of their talkgroups are setup for clear and encrypted voice. Dispatchers will routinely tell the deputies "you're encrypted" reminding them to switch their radios back to clear mode.

Forcing voice modes to clear or encrypted eliminates the possibility of errors.

I'm just curious if it's something Ma Batwings (or equal) lets you do, if you want to set the system up that way.

Batwings and the others allow system managers setup their systems how they see fit. Modern radio systems are very customizable.

 

[bctrainers]

The last thing I read is Reg Com 3-14 should remain in the clear. 15-28 are the new ones that have partial and full-time encryption.

RegCom 3 - 14 will remain in the clear. Problem is, whoever reconfigured the KCPD radios, absolutely bungled the encryption configuration. As such, the radios are coming over traditionally clear talk groups as encrypted. Other users on the system will hear radio silence, or see the various RegCom channels light up, but no audio. In some cases, users will hear gibberish/digital noise (encryption).

 

[bctrainers]

Do you know if it's within the capabilities of the radio system to have a talkgroup that's forced *un*encrypted? In other words, if a user has their radio in E mode, selects that talkgroup, and pushes the transmit button, either their radio goes "bzzt" and refuses to transmit, or it does transmit but in the clear?

I can think of a couple of reasons why you wouldn't want this. One is that if someone thinks they are transmitting E, it's probably a bad idea to "silently" change it to clear voice. The other is that in an emergency situation, you don't want the user to have to futz with the radio much - they should be able to press transmit and get heard right now. (In that situation, the people that are listening and can do something about it *probably* have E capability anyway.)

I'm just curious if it's something Ma Batwings (or equal) lets you do, if you want to set the system up that way.

Yes, there are a fair amount of talk groups on the MARRS system that are (and can be) strapped as insecure (clear). For example, all PD Primary TG's on the JoCo MARRS side - with the exclusion of Lenexa PD 1.

 

[Papagei]

If a user has their radio knob switched to Ø (encrypted position) and they key up on a forced clear talkgroup, their transmissions will be unencrypted. It works the other way around, too.

If that happens (the radio transmits but in a different mode than the user selected), does the user get a beep or a yellow light or something on their radio? Or does it appear to the user like any other transmission?

The way I understand [Clay County's] policy is that transmissions on the dispatch talkgroups are to be clear voice only (unless there's an incident that necessitates switching to encrypted voice).

I can pick up Blue Springs PD on the eastern Jackson County tower and I think they might have a forced-clear dispatch talkgroup. I don't think I've ever heard anyone come up in E on that group, and I haven't heard the dispatcher remind an officer to switch. They also have a couple of patrol talkgroups that I think are forced-E; I monitored them for a while when I first set up my scanner, but I never heard anything clear, so eventually I took them out of the scan list.

Thanks!

 

[PVPD730]

RegCom 3 - 14 will remain in the clear. Problem is, whoever reconfigured the KCPD radios, absolutely bungled the encryption configuration. As such, the radios are coming over traditionally clear talk groups as encrypted. Other users on the system will hear radio silence, or see the various RegCom channels light up, but no audio. In some cases, users will hear gibberish/digital noise (encryption).

Today was the first time I saw a KCPD radio ID (4000151) come up on Reg Com 4. Reg Com 3-14 are supposed to be forced clear. It was strange. Something definitely got botched up. That or they changed their minds and decided to make those talkgroups to where users have the ability to toggle the encryption on or off.