Miami-Beach P25 Phase II (011.46F77)

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Maybe if they hold their radios up and to the side slightly, it'll improve the signal performance.

Probably not.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

i am down here this week for the music week and vacation. i noticed some of older analog interop being used

 

[richee2000]

has anyone actually heard and verified Miami Beach PD in the clear , over the last few days on the P25 system? (database now indicates "De")

 

[blackbelter]

Visiting Miami for few weeks and thus far all the New NMB Talk groups 1000-1005 are fully Encrypted . My G5 picked up the Ocean Rescue units however.

 

[MDCOnScene]

Miami Beach Fire Rescue have cut over this week and they are mostly in the clear. I don't have time to type all the new P25 TGs but here are a few the most actives:

1101 MBFR Inter Agency Ops
1102 MBFR Dispatch
1103 MBFR Fire (Fire-Talk)
1104 MBFR Fire Tac 1
1105 MBFR Fire Tac 2
1106 MBFR Fire Tac 3
1107 MBFR Prevent 1 (FR HQ/Marshal/Alarm Testing)
1108 MBFR Prevent 2 (In Building Station Testing)
1109 MBFR Ocean Rescue 1 (South)
1110 MBFR Ocean Rescue 2 (North)
1111 MBFR Ocean Rescue 3 (Tac)
1112 MBFR Support
1113 MBFR EMS Mount Sinai
1114 MBFR EMS Ryder (Temp Patched to Miami P25 1804/Hialeah P25 3014)

Here are the ranges of TGs in use on the new P25 system:

1001 - 1030 MBPD (Mostly Encrypted)
1101 - 1124 MBFR (Mostly Clear)
1201 - 1216 Special Events/Operations (All Clear)
1301 - 1330 Local Government (Some Clear/Some Encrypted)
63100 - 63130 Miami Beach Patches

PD has quite a few TGs on the new system that they are actually using day to day. TGs 1001 - 1009, 1020-1024, and 1030 all have regular usage now but again they're all encrypted.

PD Dispatch BOLOs on TG1002/TG1003 are still in the clear (at least if the dispatcher remembers to push the clear button).

The old Motorola SmartNet II system is still up but will be shut down as soon as the remaining local government users are cut over to the new radios (Sanitation, Parks, ect). There are far more new radios on the P25 system compared to what were on the Motorola system just prior to the cut over. I'd say Harris really made out on the sale of portables to Miami Beach as many city employees are getting radios (which will likely sit on their desks as they continue to use their cell phones because its 2022).

The auto roaming feature is now tied in with both Miami Fire/Police and Hialeah Fire/Police and is on at all times. So if the system detects a Miami PD/FD or Hialeah PD/FD unit in range on the MB control channel that TG is automatically activated on the Miami Beach system. So basically you will hear the dispatch TGs of Miami and Hialeah nearly all the time on the Miami Beach transmitters. Since Miami Beach retained all their frequencies and the P25 phase II system doubles the available capacity to two slots per frequency so that doubled the talk slots and with Harris' priority feature they really have no capacity concerns.

Without City of Miami's help and a lot of patience from L3Harris Miami Beach would have never got the new system up and cutover done.

 

[MDCOnScene]

The old Miami Beach Public Safety Motorola SmartNet II system has now been taken offline.

One other interesting thing that I forgot to mention before is that most of MBFR are actually using Motorola P25 APX series portables on the new Harris P25 trunked system whereas PD and most local government is all Harris equipment. From what I have seen the Motorola's are working flawlessly. I believe they were purchased via the Broward contract pricing. In fact, I think the Motorola's are better than the Harris in terms of usability.

Also here are the only MBPD TGs that I am aware of that are in the clear:

1015 MBPD Event 1
1016 MBPD Event 2

 

[Bote]

One other interesting thing that I forgot to mention before is that most of MBFR are actually using Motorola P25 APX series portables on the new Harris P25 trunked system whereas PD and most local government is all Harris equipment. From what I have seen the Motorola's are working flawlessly. I believe they were purchased via the Broward contract pricing. In fact, I think the Motorola's are better than the Harris in terms of usability.

I've seen it expressed as: Harris uses the basic P25 protocol, while Motorola of course chose to "embrace and extend" the specification for their own equipment as a value-added carrot. So they will all talk to each other, but without some fanciness.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

I've seen it expressed as: Harris uses the basic P25 protocol, while Motorola of course chose to "embrace and extend" the specification for their own equipment as a value-added carrot. So they will all talk to each other, but without some fanciness.

They both have vendor specific features

 

[MDCOnScene]

A few updates:

MBFR Dispatch (TG1102) is now running encrypted since June 1st. I do not believe this was originally planned and I asked around and couldn't get a good answer as to why but the only response was that they are working to resolve "reception" problems with the system (apparently by enabling encryption on the FR Dispatch Channel 1?!?) Basically we are now only left with the Pulse Point app for the keeping up with the fire rescue calls.

MBPD continues to have radio problems on the new system. They were really bad during the past memorial day weekend. PD unit transmissions are heard with garbled or unintelligible audio. They think they have narrowed the problem down to timing synchronization caused by auto roaming to the Miami P25 system but there is no fix. The work around is that encryption is often turned off for TG1002 and/or TG1003 (MBPD Ch1 and Ch2) during shift changes when the PD units are generally on the causeways outside the city.

The operations protocol for turning encryption on and off is this: PD dispatchers can unencrypt their transmissions for their own individual consoles (ie for BOLOs, ect) and the on duty supervisors in the communications center now have system access to disable all encryption on a particular talk group channel (including portables and mobiles) which has to be approved by the top big brass.

 

[JimD56]

A few updates:

MBFR Dispatch (TG1102) is now running encrypted since June 1st. I do not believe this was originally planned and I asked around and couldn't get a good answer as to why but the only response was that they are working to resolve "reception" problems with the system (apparently by enabling encryption on the FR Dispatch Channel 1?!?) Basically we are now only left with the Pulse Point app for the keeping up with the fire rescue calls.

MBPD continues to have radio problems on the new system. They were really bad during the past memorial day weekend. PD unit transmissions are heard with garbled or unintelligible audio. They think they have narrowed the problem down to timing synchronization caused by auto roaming to the Miami P25 system but there is no fix. The work around is that encryption is often turned off for TG1002 and/or TG1003 (MBPD Ch1 and Ch2) during shift changes when the PD units are generally on the causeways outside the city.

The operations protocol for turning encryption on and off is this: PD dispatchers can unencrypt their transmissions for their own individual consoles (ie for BOLOs, ect) and the on duty supervisors in the communications center now have system access to disable all encryption on a particular talk group channel (including portables and mobiles) which has to be approved by the top big brass.

MBFR Dispatch (TG1102) is now running encrypted since June 1st.
WTF! I would have been told about this at Miami-Dade Fire. I am the C Shift "Countywide" Hazmat OIC and I would have been in the loop on this considering we go into MB for Hazmat calls on a regular basis. MB does NOT operate a dedicated Hazmat Unit, MDFR and MFD handle their hazmat calls. I can talk to MB from my APX7700 because I have their new system, and old, programmed but NOT encrypted. We shall see I guess.....

 

[MDCOnScene]

MBFR Dispatch (TG1102) is now running encrypted since June 1st.
WTF! I would have been told about this at Miami-Dade Fire. I am the C Shift "Countywide" Hazmat OIC and I would have been in the loop on this considering we go into MB for Hazmat calls on a regular basis. MB does NOT operate a dedicated Hazmat Unit, MDFR and MFD handle their hazmat calls. I can talk to MB from my APX7700 because I have their new system, and old, programmed but NOT encrypted. We shall see I guess.....

The Main Fire Rescue dispatch channel TG1102 is definitely now on full time encryption. The Fire Talk and Tac channels are still in the clear at least...so presumably Hazmat situations would be handled on a Tac or Talk channel. I will say I am impressed how quick the people in the communications center are at switching on/off encryption as well as patching on the new system. They are doing it multiple times a day for PD especially on the main dispatch channels for BOLOs and shift change and on the 'Tac 7' channel (TG1008) when then need to talk to the county PD/Aviation.

I have a Motorola APX question for everyone. Does Motorola charge a license fee for enabling encryption on a per radio basis? Now that Fire Rescue needs encryption feature on for all of their APX portables and mobiles it seems that would have come at a hefty price.

 

[JimD56]

The Main Fire Rescue dispatch channel TG1102 is definitely now on full time encryption. The Fire Talk and Tac channels are still in the clear at least...so presumably Hazmat situations would be handled on a Tac or Talk channel. I will say I am impressed how quick the people in the communications center are at switching on/off encryption as well as patching on the new system. They are doing it multiple times a day for PD especially on the main dispatch channels for BOLOs and shift change and on the 'Tac 7' channel (TG1008) when then need to talk to the county PD/Aviation.

I have a Motorola APX question for everyone. Does Motorola charge a license fee for enabling encryption on a per radio basis? Now that Fire Rescue needs encryption feature on for all of their APX portables and mobiles it seems that would have come at a hefty price.

Thanks, I will just ask for the MBFR units on scene to go to an interoperability Tac Channel (That isn't "E") when I respond.

 

[MTS2000des]

I have a Motorola APX question for everyone. Does Motorola charge a license fee for enabling encryption on a per radio basis? Now that Fire Rescue needs encryption feature on for all of their APX portables and mobiles it seems that would have come at a hefty price.

If the radio wasn't ordered with the same type of encryption as in use (ADP, AES, DES, etc) then yes, they will have to be upgraded with the appropriate flashes purchased thru MSI. Other options like mult-key (more than 1 enc key) may also raise the price. APX radios all came with at least single key ADP software encryption, but around 1st Q 2018, the customer was required to specify an algorithm and got either single key AES-256 or ADP (upon request). If NO ALGO was specified, the radio has to go to the depot to get the MACE flashed.

Bottom line, check your subscribers. Put it in test mode by turning it on, and pressing the bottom side button 5 times within 10 seconds of power up and you will see the model, serial and all kinds of info display including the encryption type and algorithms present in the MACE.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

Anyone know why the encrypted the Fd dispatch

 

[Bote]

Thanks, I will just ask for the MBFR units on scene to go to an interoperability Tac Channel (That isn't "E") when I respond.

...and cross your fingers that they know how to find that channel on their radios.

 

[MDCOnScene]

Anyone know why the encrypted the Fd dispatch

I was told the city is hell bent on stopping retransmission and streaming of their dispatch channels (Fire and PD) over the Internet. They say along with unencrypting Police BOLOs and keeping Fire Rescue calls in the Pulse Point app they have done their part to keep the public informed yet the dispatchers have a protocol to follow to remove certain calls from Pulse Point (jumpers, hostage situations, police involved shootings, ect). Ie. anything that could cast the city in negative light (or alert the news media to cover). I know that several media outlets are looking at taking action (although I think they will have a uphill climb).

They also say that address numbers are removed from Pulse Point which affords victims of calls more privacy. However, they leave code compliance calls in the clear still where they regularly transmit residents (both complainant and complainee) names, addresses and phone numbers. So privacy isn't that important I guess. It would be interesting to see if someone sets up a real-time code compliance channel stream over the internet if that would be switched to "E" also.

There is no question that Miami Beach's new P25 radio system makes it the municipality with the most restrictive policy with regards to access to real time police and fire communications in all of South Florida if not the state.

 

[Ezra]

Yeah all PD and Fire Dispatch is fully encrypted all the time. I'll miss listenting to PD respond to 1020 Ocean five times a day to break up fights.

 

[Kitn1mcc]

Yeah all PD and Fire Dispatch is fully encrypted all the time. I'll miss listenting to PD respond to 1020 Ocean five times a day to break up fights.

I have been to a few fun roof top events there, But i usually avoid ocean drive.