Old Erie County low band system / QC1 tones

[wqhz937]

I’ve been feeling a bit nostalgic lately and I’ve been trying to piece together some historical info on the old VHF Low radio system that Erie County managed until it was phased out in the early 2000s, especially as I’ve been finding fireground audio with the QC1 siren tones at the end of each dispatch, bringing back memories. Since I was fairly young when this was still in service, I don’t have a lot of knowledge of how things operated or which set of tones set off which department’s siren, but I do remember a few things from back then. Here’s what I can recall:

- Channels we’re shared between two FCs:
- 46.28 Lancaster and Cheektowaga
- 46.26 Amherst and (maybe) Tonawanda?
- 46.24 West Seneca and East Aurora
- 46.38 Countywide F2
- For the most part, the pager tones for fire companies have remained the same, even after fire controls broke away on their own systems.
- I seem to remember something about a “22 Test” or something like that on Monday nights.

IDK, maybe this is silly of me to even bring up but I figured it would be neat to see what I can piece together about something from my “early fire buff” days.

 

[ak716]

46.20 - Hamburg and Evans

Almost always busy! I recall Hamburg calling Evans nightly asking if they were clear for the nightly test. Then like two minutes of tones.

Found this too, might help you a bit
FIRE FREQUENCIES
Erie County/Hamburg NY
https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Erie_County_(NY)_Firefighting

 

[KB2FX]

The Erie County, NY VHF Low Band radio system was built in the late 1950’s and (over time) consisted of the following base stations:
KEE408 Erie Control, Chestnut Ridge Park 46.38 MHz
KEE409 Amherst Control 46.22 MHz
KEE410 Cheektowaga Control 46.28 MHz
KEE411 West Seneca Control 46.24 MHz
KEE412 Angola Control 46.20 MHz
KEE413 Helmuth Control 46.32 MHz
KEE414 Springville Control 46.32 MHz
KEE415 Kenmore Control 46.26 MHz
KEE416 Lancaster Control 6.28 MHz
KEE417 Hamburg Control 46.20 MHz
KEE418 East Aurora Control 46.24 MHz
KEG736 Tonawanda Control 46.46 MHz

The base station frequencies (most shared by two towns) were labeled “F1” and used for dispatch (tone outs) and primary communications. 46.38 MHz was labeled “F2” and used for mutual aid and county wide communications. Later 46.22 MHz was added as a fireground channel.

Fire department dispatch used two signaling systems: Plectron, which consisted of a sequence of two single tones and Motorola’s “Quick Call II” (QCII) system, which consisted of a sequence of two dual tone combinations. At that time, all transmitters, encoders, receivers and decoders were vacuum tube devices.

Firefighter home receivers were either Plectron or Motorola (depending on the department) configured to monitor the town F1 and decode the department tone sequence.

Station house receivers were Motorola, typically configured to monitor the town F1 and county F2 with QCII decoders on each channel. The “22” test you refer to was actually the “23” test and “24” test that activated station sirens over the air. This could be accomplished by the town base station or Erie Control.

The "23" and "24" tests nomenclature was actually a misnomer of the Motorola QCII system. In the Motorola QCII system, the four tones: 1-2, 3-4 had a dual purpose: Sending the “24” transmitted all four tones in sequence to alert specific departments (or sirens). Sending the “23” transmitted only middle tones 2-3 for 8 seconds to alert a group of receivers. This was used by Tonawanda to alert all town companies for “Class 1, Division 1” fires at the chemical plants.

 

[KB2FX]

The Erie County, NY VHF Low Band radio system was built in the late 1950’s and (over time) consisted of the following base stations:
KEE408 Erie Control, Chestnut Ridge Park 46.38 MHz
KEE409 Amherst Control 46.22 MHz
KEE410 Cheektowaga Control 46.28 MHz
KEE411 West Seneca Control 46.24 MHz
KEE412 Angola Control 46.20 MHz
KEE413 Helmuth Control 46.32 MHz
KEE414 Springville Control 46.32 MHz
KEE415 Kenmore Control 46.26 MHz
KEE416 Lancaster Control 46.28 MHz
KEE417 Hamburg Control 46.20 MHz
KEE418 East Aurora Control 46.24 MHz
KEG736 Tonawanda Control 46.46 MHz

The base station frequencies (most shared by two towns) were labeled “F1” and used for dispatch (tone outs) and primary communications. 46.38 MHz was labeled “F2” and used for mutual aid and county wide communications. Later 46.22 MHz was added as a fireground channel.

Fire department dispatch used two signaling systems: Plectron, which consisted of a sequence of two single tones and Motorola’s “Quick Call II” (QCII) system, which consisted of a sequence of two dual tone combinations. At that time, all transmitters, encoders, receivers and decoders were vacuum tube devices.

Firefighter home receivers were either Plectron or Motorola (depending on the department) configured to monitor the town F1 and decode the department tone sequence.

Station house receivers were Motorola, typically configured to monitor the town F1 and county F2 with QCII decoders on each channel. The “22” test you refer to was actually the “23” test and “24” test that activated station sirens over the air. This could be accomplished by the town base station or Erie Control.

The "23" and "24" tests nomenclature was actually a misnomer of the Motorola QCII system. In the Motorola QCII system, the four tones: 1-2, 3-4 had a dual purpose: Sending the “24” transmitted all four tones in sequence to alert specific departments (or sirens). Sending the “23” transmitted only middle tones 2-3 for 8 seconds to alert a group of receivers. This was used by Tonawanda to alert all town companies for “Class 1, Division 1” fires at the chemical plants.

 

[furbox]

KEE413 Helmuth Control 46.32 MHz
KEE414 Springville Control 46.32 MHz

Originally, these two areas were 46.38. It wasn't until the the late 70s or early 80s when they switched to 46.32 and 46.38 became F2.

 

[kny2xb]

I'm curious, did Erie County use 45.88 MHz?

I used to hear Monroe County call Livingston County on that frequency,
I believe that it was listed as county-to-county

 

[ak716]

I'm curious, did Erie County use 45.88 MHz?

I used to hear Monroe County call Livingston County on that frequency,
I believe that it was listed as county-to-county

While I don't know if Erie County did use it, 45.88 is spelled out the NYS Interoperability and Common Channel guide, titled as "LFIRE4D", as well was the NIFOG

 

[kny2xb]

I haven't read the NIFOG in a bit, Thank You

 

[BITT211]

hello , old station house receiver I still have put away . joined fire dept. , 1966, was asst . / fire chief for 10 yrs , late 70' mid 80's . I reset these siren test buttons hundreds of times . hope this brings back memories. Spring Brook Fire District , Town Of Elma

 

[kf8yk]

I'm curious, did Erie County use 45.88 MHz?

I used to hear Monroe County call Livingston County on that frequency,
I believe that it was listed as county-to-county

While I don't know if Erie County did use it, 45.88 is spelled out the NYS Interoperability and Common Channel guide, titled as "LFIRE4D", as well was the NIFOG

A long standing FCC rule restricts 45.88 to mutual aid use only, reference 90.20(d)(19)

 

[BITT211]

never used that freq. when I was active , 1966 - 1991. our freq's back than for East Aurora Fire Dispt , was , 46.24 ,f-1 / 46.38 , f-2.
now all uhf , lot better than the old low band setup.

 

[BTFire21]

45.880 Base Station is still at Chesnut Ridge. It is part of NYS NIFOG Fire Mutual Aid plan as AK716 stated. I have heard it used from time to time. Last time was during the Oct surprise storm on 2006.

 

[wqhz937]

hello , old station house receiver I still have put away . joined fire dept. , 1966, was asst . / fire chief for 10 yrs , late 70' mid 80's . I reset these siren test buttons hundreds of times . hope this brings back memories. Spring Brook Fire District , Town Of Elma

Absolutely brings back memories. Before they cut the low band system, we (Depew) had the relay on that receiver tied to a Gamewell master box. One of the other fire controls would hit our QC1 tone for mutual aid and box 444 would start. If memory serves me right, the county tied the alpha paging into that box as well. Not sure if they did the same with the IAR system.

I’d love to know what the tone combinations were for the various fire companies.

 

[wqhz937]

hello , old station house receiver I still have put away . joined fire dept. , 1966, was asst . / fire chief for 10 yrs , late 70' mid 80's . I reset these siren test buttons hundreds of times . hope this brings back memories. Spring Brook Fire District , Town Of Elma

Would you mind getting some close up pics of that base station. Interested in model number and any information on a placard.

 

[BITT211]

label on top left - MOD # - 01039A
SERIAL # - PT5359
thats all that is on label

 

[wqhz937]

The Erie County, NY VHF Low Band radio system was built in the late 1950’s and (over time) consisted of the following base stations:
KEE408 Erie Control, Chestnut Ridge Park 46.38 MHz
KEE409 Amherst Control 46.22 MHz
KEE410 Cheektowaga Control 46.28 MHz
KEE411 West Seneca Control 46.24 MHz
KEE412 Angola Control 46.20 MHz
KEE413 Helmuth Control 46.32 MHz
KEE414 Springville Control 46.32 MHz
KEE415 Kenmore Control 46.26 MHz
KEE416 Lancaster Control 6.28 MHz
KEE417 Hamburg Control 46.20 MHz
KEE418 East Aurora Control 46.24 MHz
KEG736 Tonawanda Control 46.46 MHz

The base station frequencies (most shared by two towns) were labeled “F1” and used for dispatch (tone outs) and primary communications. 46.38 MHz was labeled “F2” and used for mutual aid and county wide communications. Later 46.22 MHz was added as a fireground channel.

Fire department dispatch used two signaling systems: Plectron, which consisted of a sequence of two single tones and Motorola’s “Quick Call II” (QCII) system, which consisted of a sequence of two dual tone combinations. At that time, all transmitters, encoders, receivers and decoders were vacuum tube devices.

Firefighter home receivers were either Plectron or Motorola (depending on the department) configured to monitor the town F1 and decode the department tone sequence.

Station house receivers were Motorola, typically configured to monitor the town F1 and county F2 with QCII decoders on each channel. The “22” test you refer to was actually the “23” test and “24” test that activated station sirens over the air. This could be accomplished by the town base station or Erie Control.

The "23" and "24" tests nomenclature was actually a misnomer of the Motorola QCII system. In the Motorola QCII system, the four tones: 1-2, 3-4 had a dual purpose: Sending the “24” transmitted all four tones in sequence to alert specific departments (or sirens). Sending the “23” transmitted only middle tones 2-3 for 8 seconds to alert a group of receivers. This was used by Tonawanda to alert all town companies for “Class 1, Division 1” fires at the chemical plants.

How were the long tones grouped? By fire control? I’m trying to “crack the code” if you will by listening to older radio recordings. I’d love it if someone had a list of the original QC tones.

 

[KB2FX]

Good morning, wqhz937 - I do not have a comprehensive list of the Quick Call 1 tone codes for the county and town base stations. They were all configured from the Motorola Code Type Y, Z Series tone group which you can find on the internet. For example, Cleveland Hill (my department) was CMEH. I have some old county system information in a file somewhere. I'll take a look.

 

[KB2FX]

Send me a couple of those recordings. I can decode and give you the QC1 Z Tone Codes....

 

[furbox]

How were the long tones grouped? By fire control? I’m trying to “crack the code” if you will by listening to older radio recordings. I’d love it if someone had a list of the original QC tones.

There is an app for android called Radio ID. It will decode the qc tones, along with MDC-1200 data to give radio IDs.

 

[k2hz]

There is an app for android called Radio ID. It will decode the qc tones, along with MDC-1200 data to give radio IDs.

I believe Radio ID only decodes QCII and will not decode the 2x2 QCI format. 2x2 format is still used for HF aircraft SELCAL but may be different tones from QCI so I am not sure if the available SELCAL decoders will work.