Required P25 Scanner Features (Uniden Take Note)

[WirelessMike]

Normally I like to buy radios with new capabilities, but I have yet to purchase a P25 scanner, as I do not care much for the first models (BC-250, P96,...). I have decided to NOT buy a new radio (especially a $500+ radio) until it has seme key features.

- User option (or normally) does not stop on an encrypted P25 transmission. Peferable when in trunked or conventional P25. There are many conventional P25 users in my area (many federal and military). I find the fact that the BC-250 *STOPS* on an encrypted P25 transmission and then DISPLAYS that it is encrypted is incredibly poor design. If it knows it is encrypted, then mute the speaker and move on.

- Display P25 Network ID on conventional P25 transmissions. This is analogous to PL/DPL and they are demodulationg the data stream, so display it. This will help identify systems and users, even if one does not hear the audio. Also permit user to set Network ID, just as one does now for PL/DPL. This will permit me to "filter" and monitor one user on a common frequency (like NLEEF, ITAC channels)

- Set scanner to only listen to P25 traffic. Similar to PRO96 and BC250 PL and DPL setting. This helps eliminate having to listen to imtermod all day, like I have to on a PRO96 anD BC250. And obviously (you guessed it) I want the audio muted if it is encrypted P25 traffic. Very helpful in high intermod urban areas.

- While they are at it, have a mode that displays site number and system number on trunked systems, like the early PRO-92 used to display.

The bottom line is that right now I can set a scanner to monitor analog traffic by setting PL or DPL and it will "filter out" intermod and DES encrypted trafffic. There should a similar fucntion for P25.

*** SO UNIDEN, ARE YOU LISTENING? WILL THE BC396 DO THIS?
(and yes, I was shouting ;-)

If Uniden cares to contact me directly in private, email me at
r f m i c 6 1 at y a h o o dot c o m

So what does everyone else thinks about my ideas?

What other featured do you guys want?

BTW, I *LOVE* the memory card idea

 

[N_Jay]

*** SO UNIDEN, ARE YOU LISTENING? WILL THE BC396 DO THIS?
(and yes, I was shouting ;-)

If Uniden cares to contact me directly in private, email me at
r f m i c 6 1 at y a h o o dot c o m

So what does everyone else thinks about my ideas?

I think you should email Uniden directly.

 

[Admin0140434]

*** SO UNIDEN, ARE YOU LISTENING? WILL THE BC396 DO THIS?
(and yes, I was shouting ;-)

If Uniden cares to contact me directly in private, email me at
r f m i c 6 1 at y a h o o dot c o m

So what does everyone else thinks about my ideas?

I think you should email Uniden directly.

or better yet... send UPMan a pm... he frequently monitors this site (im sure EVERYDAY)

 

[911scanner]

While I'm not smart enough to understand the meaning to some technical things around here, I will say AMEN to some of the things you mentioned there WrelessMike.

Good thoughts!

 

[Voyager]

Normally I like to buy radios with new capabilities, but I have yet to purchase a P25 scanner, as I do not care much for the first models (BC-250, P96,...). I have decided to NOT buy a new radio (especially a $500+ radio) until it has seme key features.

- User option (or normally) does not stop on an encrypted P25 transmission. Peferable when in trunked or conventional P25. There are many conventional P25 users in my area (many federal and military). I find the fact that the BC-250 *STOPS* on an encrypted P25 transmission and then DISPLAYS that it is encrypted is incredibly poor design. If it knows it is encrypted, then mute the speaker and move on.

- Display P25 Network ID on conventional P25 transmissions. This is analogous to PL/DPL and they are demodulationg the data stream, so display it. This will help identify systems and users, even if one does not hear the audio. Also permit user to set Network ID, just as one does now for PL/DPL. This will permit me to "filter" and monitor one user on a common frequency (like NLEEF, ITAC channels)

- Set scanner to only listen to P25 traffic. Similar to PRO96 and BC250 PL and DPL setting. This helps eliminate having to listen to imtermod all day, like I have to on a PRO96 anD BC250. And obviously (you guessed it) I want the audio muted if it is encrypted P25 traffic. Very helpful in high intermod urban areas.

- While they are at it, have a mode that displays site number and system number on trunked systems, like the early PRO-92 used to display.

The bottom line is that right now I can set a scanner to monitor analog traffic by setting PL or DPL and it will "filter out" intermod and DES encrypted trafffic. There should a similar fucntion for P25.

All sound great.

The PRO-96 does the "site number and system number" display, BTW.

Joe M.

 

[UPMan]

Actually, it is better to keep this on completely open forums for both the feedback given in a community and for legal reasons.

I can say that the BCD396T should have _some_ of these features. However, our ability to add new features has long passed. The scope is locked...any new features would result in a push back on shipment anywhere from 1-3 months.

 

[AZScanner]

I can say that the BCD396T should have _some_ of these features.

Please tell me you can skip encryption! I hate that during a TG search: "beleep blop bloop doop beep bleep burp blink blap blop beepleep" all of course nice and loud for my coworkers to hear, making them really wonder just how weird I am.

"psst... hey... I think that guy is listening to aliens or something.."

"yeah... weird..."

Please tell me that can be skipped. I'd like to actually be able to use the search button once in a while without hearing that awful sound.

-AZ

 

[nexus]

Just tell them you lost the BEEPS, the SWEEPS, and the CREEPS. :lol:

 

[WirelessMike]

It is not just a matter of these being "features". Many of these are a matter of good design and poor design (especially having to hear encryption giberish).

My hope is that the scanner manufactureers will have more scanner nerds involved in the design of scanners, as well as the testing of them.

There are many examples of crazy bad design getting into radio: BC895 only does FM in the 140 MHz band (popular AM for USAF) and AM only in the 380-400 MHz band (now FM only. Many radios do the wrong steps size in different bands.

 

[n4voxgill]

I got a letter in the mail yesterday from a friend. He told me in 1982 that he wasn't going to buy a computer until they had everything. He had to mail the letter as he still doesn't have a computer so no email.

Two years from now who knows what all the features we will want that we don't know about today. With 700 MHz, Phase 2 Project25, SDR, MESH networks, MESA and the whole list of new items for the spectrum at 4 GHz. I know that people are looking seriously at the MESH system with IP that will basically do away with most infrastructure. This would lead to a new type scanner, but could only hear it if you are within simplex range of a handheld.

 

[Voyager]

Just tell them you lost the BEEPS, the SWEEPS, and the CREEPS. :lol:

The what, the what, and the what?

(Now you gotta figure out how to type all those sound effects. hehehe)

Back on topic, I bet the P25 only will be one of the things supported, as well as skipping over encrypted transmissions.

I bet the NAC won't be in there (unfortunately)

However, what is to stop that from being added in a newer version of software?

Joe M.

 

[brandon]

Amen on skipping encrypted P25 comms. Hope this becomes a reality.

 

[CORN]

I thought they had an encryption skipping device. It's called a lockout button. Now grant it the other user might be unencrypted but what good is a one sided conversation. I can't get anything out of it.

 

[Voyager]

I thought they had an encryption skipping device. It's called a lockout button. Now grant it the other user might be unencrypted but what good is a one sided conversation. I can't get anything out of it.

OK. HOW do you lockout one TG that is occasionally encrypted without locking it out for the unencrypted conversations?

Joe M.

 

[CORN]

Well, lets see. I stated that one side of the conversation might be unencrypted and what good is a one sided converation. So I meant the whole TG would be locked out. In Nashville some units on vice and such are encrypted. One side of the comm will sound like R2D2 but the other party is in the clear. So you have a one sided converation. When I lock out the TG i'll come back later and check on it. If it's all clear i unlock it. I know it's pain right now but it's all you've go to go with. Everyone hear has great ideas and such but unless you fork out the millions of dollars or whatever to design, build, and market a scanner of your own your going to hear the R2D2 sound unless you lock it out. Here it's only a certain few TG's that are mainly encrypted and those aren't that exciting to listen to anyway. So all the main dispatch and spcl ops TG's are usually in the clear. I guess what I am trying to say is it will probably be a long time coming before the scanners know when to skip over certain comms.

 

[CORN]

Sorry for the confusion about the lockout thing. I didn't mean lock out just one side. oops

 

[rdale]

" I guess what I am trying to say is it will probably be a long time coming before the scanners know when to skip over certain comms."

Why do you say that? They skip over encrypted comms in a 3600-baud system, I find it VERY hard to believe that it would cost millions of dollars to research a way to skip them in 9600-baud...

 

[WirelessMike]

Locking out a channel or TG is NOT the answer. First of all, I am interested in simplex and conventional traffic, so no TG. Also many freqs and TG only use encrypted SOMETIMES, so I have to lock out all the time?

Also a P25 only mode would eliminate have to listen to intermod.


UPMan and suggesting that "... it is too late to add these features ..."

I would contend that Uniden " is too late" as they have now had several years and scanner models to get the desging to tbe more in tune with what scanner users actually need.

I do like Uniden (and GRE/RS) scanners, but I HATE paying top dollar for missing basic, common sense features.

 

[mloftus2]

If you program the P25 systems separately from the conventional systems, then it is quite easy to select what the scanner scans.

on edit: I didn't realize this topic was so old - sorry.

 

[swest90]

OK. HOW do you lockout one TG that is occasionally encrypted without locking it out for the unencrypted conversations?

Joe M.

Turn on the status bit for the system. The Encryption bit is +8 of the normal talk group id. IE if you are monitoring group 16 and a user is encrypted the talk group will come up as 24. You can lockout talk group 24 and miss all the encrypted traffic of 16. Hat tip to Shaun he was the one that first posted this great idea of using the status bits.

Shawn