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Updating Tone Remote Base Unit

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BlueDevil

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I am wanting to update this old Tone Remote Base Unit to a new model. After opening up the old unit it looks like it is just a two wire system. Does anyone see any reason why I shouldn't be able to exchange this units? Any advice or suggestions when doing something like this? Doesn't appear to be that difficult I just ran out of time today and will not get a chance to work on this project for a few more days so I figured I would check on here for input. Thanks!!
 

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mmckenna

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Tones used for tone controlled remotes are fairly standardized:
Two-Way Radio - Tone Remote Functions
I used to have a system with a Motorola remote hooked up to a CPI controller. That would suggest that at least those specific models were interchangeable. I always hate to use the "S" word (standards), as there are "many standards to choose from", so proceed with caution.

I'm sure there is someone on this site that has done the same swap and can tell you for sure.
 

radioman2001

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Our agency has found that some of the older units (like the SSC,CPI and even old Motorola's) that are not micro-processor controlled don't work well with the micro-processor controlled termination panels. There are some units out there that have timing adjustment through software or dip switch setting to overcome the "tightness" of the newer panel.
 

ramal121

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F1 (1950) and F2 (1850) are pretty universal. It's when you go to F3 and beyond things get murky depending on the manufacturer. Looks like you'll replace single freq remote with a two freq. As long you don't change the new one to F2 by mistake, you should be fine. But you will have to pay attention to the level settings (receive, mic, and line out) to make sure it operates the same as the old one.

Nice thing is, if it doesn't work you can go back to the old one easily enough until you can find your thinking cap.
 

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Yeah. I think I can do it. I would really like to get the F1/F2 button to work. It would be nice to change channels on the base radio. This is probably an adjustment at the base radio controller or the radio programming?


Cheers,

Brandon
 

mmckenna

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Yeah. I think I can do it. I would really like to get the F1/F2 button to work. It would be nice to change channels on the base radio. This is probably an adjustment at the base radio controller or the radio programming?


Cheers,

Brandon

Depends on what your base radio is. If it handles tone remote internally, then you just need to program it accordingly. If it's using a separate tone remote box, you'll need to see how it's all set up.
 

BlueDevil

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Base radio is a Motorola CM200. However the system is using a separate tone remote box/controller. I am not sure what brand/make or model it is, possibly a CPI device. I will investigate further next time I am on location.


Cheers,

Brandon
 

mmckenna

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Base radio is a Motorola CM200. However the system is using a separate tone remote box/controller. I am not sure what brand/make or model it is, possibly a CPI device. I will investigate further next time I am on location.


Cheers,

Brandon

CPI box will need to support more than one channel. Been along time, so I'm no longer familiar with those. Been using Zetron for a while.
Also, the CM200 will need to be able to support being remotely controlled.

I could tell you exactly how to do it with a Zetron/Kenwood set up, but not with what you have.
 

BlueDevil

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Took a look at the Tone Remote Controller today. It appears that it might be a CPI-100 model? Here are some pictures of our setup. Looks like it may support two channels? From what I can tell we are only using two wires for most of our Tone Remote Desktop units. Maybe I just need to make a programming adjustment in the CM200. Up until now we haven't had Tone Remote units that would support two channels.

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Cheers,

Brandon
 

BlueDevil

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After further review on the Internet and the CPI website I think it might be the DPT3 controller.


Cheers,

Brandon
 

ramal121

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The DPT series are DC termination panels, not tone. Sure looks like a CPI product but maybe older and not in production anymore.

What I will say is that for F1/F2 operation with a CPI panel you need to order it with the option that allows you to do this. If you look at the upper right of your picture, next to the transformers, you'll see two black relays. One is for monitor and the other is for F1/F2 switching. Also you'll notice there is an added section of the terminal strip that gives you three more screw terminals. In a single freq model both these items would be missing, so I'd say for certain this will do two freqs.
 

BlueDevil

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Well maybe before I mess with the controller at all I will confirm that the programming in the CM200 is correct. I may not need to even touch the controller. Or does it appear that there is some wiring missing that I would need to do?


Cheers,

Brandon
 

jeatock

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Just call CPI. Ed Hall is a great guy to work with. The board pictures look like CPI TTP-series tone interfaces.

Standard tones are tones. That's why it is called a standard. The real question is what does the tone box on the radio end need. Find that out, send it the right tones and all will be well. CPI follows the EIA standard for tones and levels. /\/\other may do something non-standard because they invented radio and always know what is best.
 
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ramal121

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The TRA should be all set to go, but you'll have to run a couple of extra wires to the CM200 to make it change channels.

The last three screw terminals of the TRA should be the relay contacts for F1/F2 (common, normally open and normally closed. Not sure which is which, check with an ohm meter). The relay will toggle as you press the F1/F2 button on the remote.

The common would hook to ground. Just run a jumper over to the black wire on terminal seven for this. For the normally closed terminal run a wire to pin 6 of the CM200 and also a wire from normally open to pin 8.

Then in CPS you would program the accessory package as "channel steering" and the inputs as low.

All there is to it, pretty straightforward.
 

ramal121

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Just call CPI. Their tech guys are great.

Standard tones are tones. That's why it is called a standard. The real question is what does the tone box on the radio end need. Find that out, send it the right tones and all will be well. CPI follows the EIA standard for tones and levels. /\/\other may do something non-standard because they invented radio and always know what is best.

For simple F1/F2 operation most everything is hard-coded as 1950 Hz and 1850 Hz.
 

Voyager

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Is that first pic on the right a tone remote or a DC remote? What is the model number? If the latter, they are not compatible. If the former, they should be compatible. As Ramal said, the TX and Monitor are nearly universal for tones. But there are sometimes timing issues that could compound the issue.
 

ramal121

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I would think that if that old SSC remote was DC it would have polarity markings on the phone line. Easy enough to tell, disconnect the phone line, lick your fingers and put them on the screws. Press transmit and if it bites ya it's DC. LOL.

I have struggled with tone remotes in the past but in my opinion CPI are the simplest and most forgiving manufacturer to work with. If I have a choice I go with CPI. As long as the audio and line levels are set correctly I really wouldn't expect any trouble hooking it to a C100.
 

BlueDevil

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I have always heard tones when operating the radio and intercom in the past so I assumed it was tone and not DC. I shouldn't assume things but in this case I think I was right. I have successfully installed two of the newer remotes. You can see on of them pictured below. They all seem to work great. No adjustments or tuning required. Just simply swapped the wires and plugged it in and it was immediately in service.

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Voyager

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I would think that if that old SSC remote was DC it would have polarity markings on the phone line. Easy enough to tell, disconnect the phone line, lick your fingers and put them on the screws. Press transmit and if it bites ya it's DC. LOL.

I would rather stick the test set on the line and listen for the tones.

Update: If you heard the tones then that answers that.
 
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