Install on 2014 F150 - Need some recommendations

[AKnReaper]

First of all I am new to this group, and have been rummaging through the posts on here looking for answers before posting. I have not seen anything so I figured I would ask. Also if this is not the correct forum please move to the correct one. Also I have been a handheld user of VHF for almost 10 years, however just in the last year have been getting more into the installations and antennas, so I am not new to the use but the how it works a little more so. (Please be gentle )

First off I have a 2014 F150 Supercrew, pass through console, and power everything, which is great as well as a great PITA (for installation purposes).

Second off, I am going to be running a stake post mount for a VHF/UHF mobile (model yet to be determined, leaning to a Yeasu or ICom remote head unit, any recommendations are also very much appreciated)

Thirdly I am trying to avoid drilling as much as possible on my truck, ie holes in the roof, cab walls etc - tall order I know but not impossible.

Without further ado here is my thoughts and questions.

I am wanting to install the radio itself under the front passenger seat, however I have power seats in the front and not sure of the space available or if the power seats will give me interference RX or TX? The console is not going to be a viable option as I have a vault and all my off road and emergency lights wired through it as well as other equipment. The backseat area is possible, however most of the back of the cab area is used for the furball soon to be furballs.

Also would a hood mount antenna work better than a stake pocket mount (going to be adding a shell)?

I am open to suggestions and will appreciate all the input and suggestions. The commo gear is not set in stone yet, but I have been trying to get everything ready before I just jump into installation.

Thanks in advance!

Jerry
KL3CK

 

[AK9R]

I've moved your thread to the Radio Equipment Installation Forum. There are a number of threads here about the late-model Ford F150s.

When it comes to passing cables from the truck bed into the cab, you may be in luck. I had a 2011 F-150 SCrew short bed. There were two oval-shaped plastic plugs in the front wall of the truck bed. Those plugs line up pretty well with the cab vents on the back wall of the cab. It's fairly easy to drill a hole in the plugs in the truck bed wall and pass a cable through the vents in the cab wall.

 

[dsalomon]

Most of those plastic plugs are removable. You shouldn't have to drill a hole in one of them, just remove it. You can buy a rubber grommet at Wal-Mart, Radio Shack, etc. if the hole is too large after removal of the plastic plug and placement of the coax. Usually, that plug is in a solid piece of sheet metal, so the rubber grommet isn't really necessary, but it doesn't hurt. I wouldn't drill a hole through the plug. If you ever sell the vehicle, you can put that plug back after you remove the stake mounted antenna. If you drill through it, then you have a hole or you have to repair a hole. Either way, it might affect a potential buyer's opinion of the value of the truck. Probably a nit, but worth considering.

Re: stake mount vs hood mount. I use both for different antennas in a Toyota Tundra full size truck. Typically, the use of a hood mount will, over time, put a small flex divot in the hood. I've had mine on for about 5 years and don't see one yet, but I have in previous vehicles. It depends on the position of the mount (mine is on the edge near the driver's side window) and the strength of the hood steel. Even when they do cause a small divot, they're usually very hard to see, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. A hood mount gives you more surface area than a stake mount as the ground plane, which is significant if you're installing a transceiver. The electronics inside the cab shouldn't create interference as long as you use good coax and ground the radio to the cab metal. If you use the hood mount and position where I did (edge of the hood near the driver's window), you can route the coax directly into the engine compartment without drilling.

They're almost always a pass-through you can use from the engine compartment into the cab. You might have to remove the PL-259 on one end of the coax to route through the pass-through. Do NOT cut and splice the coax together in the middle, i.e. cut at one end and replace the connector.

It sounds like you've already run power cable. If you haven't, make sure you run directly from the battery and have fuses on both positive and negative wires. Use at least 10 gauge wire. Voltage drop is a consideration for a transceiver.

I use a cap for my hood mounted antenna if I'm not going to use that radio. They're cheap (about $5) and will reduce the strain on the hood from the antenna flexing in the wind. Unscrew the antenna and replace it with the cap.

Re: running coax from the hood, run the coax under either the driver's side carpet and/or side panel (depends on the configuration) and under the plastic piece on the floor by the driver's side door. That long, thin piece is used to cover other wires and is usually very easy to remove and replace. They often have only 2 or 3 screws holding them down. It's an easy way to locate the coax and power wires to just behind the driver's seat. It's a good way to get the wires to the under the seat mount position and not have them visible.

When you select an antenna, consider the height. If you park in a garage will the antenna fit? My antenna does NOT fit in my garage, so I got one that has a fold-over. I stop before pulling into the garage, fold the antenna down to where it lays on the cab, then pull into the garage. This works, but you have to remember to fold it down every time you pull into the garage. I've forgotten a few times and have bent (and unbent) the antenna. It's worth considering.

Bottom line, my preference for your VHF/UHF mobile would be the hood mount. It's probably an easier installation than the stake mount. It's also a better location of the antenna because of the ground plane.

Hope this helps.

73 - David, AG4F

 

[AKnReaper]

I've moved your thread to the Radio Equipment Installation Forum. There are a number of threads here about the late-model Ford F150s.

When it comes to passing cables from the truck bed into the cab, you may be in luck. I had a 2011 F-150 SCrew short bed. There were two oval-shaped plastic plugs in the front wall of the truck bed. Those plugs line up pretty well with the cab vents on the back wall of the cab. It's fairly easy to drill a hole in the plugs in the truck bed wall and pass a cable through the vents in the cab wall.

Aye, I found that out after I posted earlier while digging around some more. If I go that route I think I would just buy one I could drill through and save the original jic lol.



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[AKnReaper]

Dave,
I have seen the hood mount that mounts to a fender by a factory bolt, that was one of the option I was looking out.

I do need an antenna that folds over do to parking conditions, this does not worry me (I have smacked an antenna or to back in the days of CBs lol)

So if the radio will "fit" under the seat even with the power components shouldn't emit enough rf to interfere?

Also I was planning on creating a power distribution block for this and other things lights etc, or should I skip the distribution block?

Thanks for the input!


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[mmckenna]

Power components under the seat will not likely be an issue since those items (power seat motors) are not running all the time. Motors for power seats might be an issue when they are running, but a proper installation job should reduce or eliminate that.

Installing a distribution block for your power would be a good idea. I have a 2011 Super Crew and ran a #6 positive lead from the battery to the area behind the rear set. A large fuse is mounted to the inside fender adjacent to the battery with a 60 amp fuse. Behind the rear seat I have the distribution block with each individual circuit fused appropriately. I picked up a local ground behind the seat.
I'd recommend running a large enough cable that you'll have plenty of clean power for your current needs as well as future additions.
Pulling clean power directly off the battery is really the way to go. It will greatly reduce chances of picking up stray interference if you try to tap into existing circuits. It's also a lot less labor intensive than running a bunch of separate circuits and trying to tie them all down on the battery.

All my antennas are mounted on the roof, so I'm not much help there. There are purpose built brackets designed for these trucks that will mount off the fender between the hood. They work as well as can be expected. It's a compromise location for antennas since it's partially blocked by the cab. Since you plan on adding the shell, I'd skip the stake pocket mounts. You really need to have some separation between the antenna and the cab, which means you'd have to go to the rear pocket.

I've got the front bench seat, so my radio heads are mounted under the dash board. Running wire in these domestic trucks is pretty easy.

Behind the rear seat I was able to run 3 separate pieces of Uni-Strut between 4 seat mount studs. The holes almost lined up perfectly, had to hit a few of them with a rat tail file. The seat mount studs are metric, so you'd need correct size metric nuts. This also made for a good grounding point. I had to fabricate some brackets to hold the radios vertically. There is plenty of space behind the rear seats and I haven't had any issues in the 5 years I've been running like this. All the cabling is hidden and it's well out of the way of passengers (humans or dogs)

 

[SteveC0625]

mmckenna's advice is spot on. Dress your wiring neatly and use lots of loom to protect it. Fasten every thing down securely and don't route your wiring where it can be disturbed by passengers, etc.

The distribution block is a wonderful thing. I like the covered 6 or 8 position fuse holders from Blue Sea. They use standard ATO fuses which is also a good thing.

Fusing the ground line of the radios gets a lot of debate among hams, but most professional upfitters and radio installers will tell you it's not necessary. I don't fuse mine and have never had a problem. Connect the ground line for the radio to a good factory grounding point near the vehicle battery, not the battery itself. Use dielectric grease on any connections under the hood, and then protect them from moisture and dirt. I do commercial and public safety radio installs fairly regularly and this advice follows the radio manufacturer's instructions.

For tons more info on professional installs, wiring, etc., check out elightbars.org. I use a similar username over there.

 

[AKnReaper]

Nice install. I am going to have to see what I have for space back there, didn't even think of that. I cannot wait to get my shell I can swap some of the things I carry in the cab to the back, which would lessen the headache lol.

So with a shell which usually preforms better stake pocket mount, or hood? I was contemplating fabing up a rack that would use the stake pockets the same way a headache rack does, but have it goes on the outside of the shell, made of 1"- 2" tubular steel. Running the antenna wire and wiring for left/right/rear scene lights through the tubes. Here is a quick sketch of the idea. Being new to antenna theory and what not I am not sure if this would work well or not.

I appreciate the info guys

 

[AI7PM]

Just curious, but why the reluctance to drill holes? My install (previous 2011 F150, present 2013 F150) has some of the traits of mmekenna's, though I have 4 RF decks screwed into the back wall of the cab.

The electric, and remote head cables all go through looms, then out the back of the cab, under the truck, and back into the cab through holes drilled specifically for them. No visible wiring in the cab, no lumps or bumps in the carpet, and no pinched or cable failure points created.

All easily plugged when I un-install. I've used this scheme on several installs. Never had a question or anything noticed or commented on at trade in time.

 

[AKnReaper]

Silly as it sounds,it's my first brand new vehicle, also if I decided to upgrade to a 1 ton and trade it in I do not want hundreds of holes. I know it seems silly, and it is, I'll conceded that, however holes in the roof or sides of the cab I have never liked. I also am trying to make it the as professional looking as much as possible and not just thrown together look.

I also am trying to discourage people from vandalizing it as much as possible too, unfortunately there is a lot of this in the state as well.


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[mmckenna]

Silly as it sounds,it's my first brand new vehicle, also if I decided to upgrade to a 1 ton and trade it in I do not want hundreds of holes. I know it seems silly, and it is, I'll conceded that, however holes in the roof or sides of the cab I have never liked.

I've installed a lot of NMO mounts on leased vehicles and never once had an issue when they were turned in. When you turn in a lease vehicle they often get sent to auction. A large dealer only needs so many used cars and they usually want a good mix, so a particular dealer only selling one particular brand of used car is sort of an issue. Anyway, because they get sent to auction they don't care about little issues like an antenna mount. If you do it correctly it won't be an issue. A properly installed mount won't cause any issues. You can either cap them off or install a CB or cellular looking antenna.

I also am trying to make it the as professional looking as much as possible and not just thrown together look.

This is a contradictory statement, at least in my opinion. Not meant to be offensive, but just calling it as is. A properly installed antenna looks a lot more professional than ones that are mounted using compromise methods. Brackets off fenders or hood mounts, mag mounts, glass mounts, etc. all look amateurish to me. A properly installed antenna shows a lot more professionalism. A properly installed antenna will work better and last longer than a compromise mount. When you really rely on two way radios you want a reliable antenna system.

It is, of course, your choice. You get to pick. A bracket mount will work, but once you do it right you'll likely realize that it looks better and works better.

 

[SteveC0625]

I also am trying to make it the as professional looking as much as possible and not just thrown together look.

What mmckenna said. Professional is not fender or other cobbled mounts.

Truth to tell, a 1/4 wave 2M or 70CM spike on an NMO in the center of the roof of the cab (especially a larger cab like a Super Crew or Super Cab) will generally perform better than a gain antenna on a fender or bed rail mount.

 

[AKnReaper]

I am not offended at all. The roof mount would be better (albeit drilling a hole in my roof makes me cringe) however between parking at home in a garage and at work in a garage, makes a roof mount unrealistic. With a rack over the shell I can at least lay it down with the assistance of my side steps.


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[mmckenna]

You can always unthread the NMO base antennas.

 

[bharvey2]

With regard to your question about antenna location on your truck: I've got a 1999 F150 king cab. I tried a 1/4 wave mag mount antenna on the roof.for a while. I made a stake pocket mount and installed a 5/8 wave antenna (front, passenger side stake pocket) with about 6ft of flexible LMR240 to the radio deck mounted under the rear seat. The performance was about the same between the two.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Another option for roof mount application is to use something like a Sti-Co flexiwhip combo (one for VHF, one for UHF) or a PCTEL wideband knob on UHF (430-480 MHz) and a VHF Sti-Co (assuming your garage has the clearance). I've been attempting to break a Sti-Co in a garage/off-road environment for about 3 years now...still failing.

I'd go with a roof mount (my 2013 Sierra was the first vehicle I financed...drilled it 3 days later). Looks professional and clean. Talked a buddy into drilling his 2013 F150...he now only wishes he would've located the antenna center of the cab and not over the 3rd brake light (his radio is behind the back seat).

 

[AKnReaper]

After listening to the words of wisdom from you guys, I am leaning towards the roof mount. Lol I just need to be able to reach it for parking. If it works I will be going that route. Now I do have a power moon roof and not sure how that is going to interfere with mounting.

Also while running duel band will I need two antennas or just one?


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[AKnReaper]

Another option for roof mount application is to use something like a Sti-Co flexiwhip combo (one for VHF, one for UHF) or a PCTEL wideband knob on UHF (430-480 MHz) and a VHF Sti-Co (assuming your garage has the clearance).

Not sure if I am following you on the knob.


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[AI7PM]

Short dual band toward the rear of the cab will do it. You can centerline mount in the flat part, or an easier spot some people like is just ahead of the bed light/third brake light.

If you use the spot above the thrid brake light, be sure to spot the hole carefully. Too far forward and there's not room for the NMO to fit.

 

[mmckenna]

After listening to the words of wisdom from you guys, I am leaning towards the roof mount. Lol I just need to be able to reach it for parking. If it works I will be going that route. Now I do have a power moon roof and not sure how that is going to interfere with mounting.

Also while running duel band will I need two antennas or just one?

Sunroof is going to be an issue. Since it retracts back into the roof it's going to be an issue. The only way I would do this would be if I dropped the headliner and could see everything clearly before drilling.
I did an NMO install on my wife's Ford Escape with a sun roof and it wasn't an issue because I was able to move it back far enough to be out of the way. Not having any experience installing on an F150 with sunroof, I wouldn't want to guess at this.
Going closer to the back of the cab might be your only option. Doesn't provide a "perfect" ground plane, but it'll work. I'd avoid going too far back. Ideally you'd want about 19" of metal between the antenna and the back of the cab for VHF frequencies.

For a dual band antenna radio you'd have a couple of options. ASSuming you are talking about a 2 meter 70cm amateur radio...
-You can install a single dual band antenna. It'll have a single coax cable from the NMO mount and that would connect to the radio. The antenna will handle both the VHF and UHF amateur bands.
-You can install a 1/4 wave VHF whip. It'll not only work fine on 2 meter VHF, but it'll act as a 3/4 wave antenna on UHF. I did this on one of my trucks and it worked very well. The radiation pattern on UHF is a bit funky, but wasn't an issue in my particular case/location.
-You can install a separate VHF and UHF antenna, but your radio would need to have separate antenna jacks for each band (some older dual band radios did have this), or you'd need a diplexer to split the common antenna jack on your radio out to a VHF and UHF port. Issue with this is that the diplexers will introduce some loss into your antenna system.

A single dual band antenna is probably your best overall choice.