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Railroad/Railfan Monitoring Forum - This is the place to discuss monitoring railroad communications.

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Old 11-26-2017, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franks_ham View Post
Class 1 refers to a certain class of railroads by the FRA standards. SMART is a CLASS 1 PASSENGER railroad.

The NWP and CFNR (G&W) are Class 3 Railroads.

Regards,

-Frank C.
You're partially correct.

Class 1 refers to a certain class of railroads set by certain standards. To achieve a class 1 status, a railroad must currently have in excess of $452,000,000 in revenue annually.

Standards set by the FRA make operating a class 1 railroad extremely expensive, and most small railroads don't want that status.

Since regular service just recently began, it is impossible for them to be a class 1 railroad.

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Old 11-26-2017, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franks_ham View Post
Class 1 refers to a certain class of railroads by the FRA standards. SMART is a CLASS 1 PASSENGER railroad.

The NWP and CFNR (G&W) are Class 3 Railroads.

Regards,

-Frank C.
I am unable to find anything to substantiate SMART or CalTrans as "Class One" railroads. Class One refers to specific requirements and are defined as direct from the AAR):

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Class I railroads have annual revenue exceeding $453 million and account for 69 percent of the industry’s mileage, 90 percent of its employees, and 94 percent of its freight revenue. They operate in 44 states and the District of Columbia and concentrate largely on long-haul, high-density intercity traffic. There are seven Class I railroads: BNSF Railway Company, Canadian Pacific Railway, CN, CSX Transportation, Kansas City Southern Railway Company, Norfolk Southern Railway Company, and Union Pacific Railroad.
In addition the STB considers Amtrak and VIA as Class One regardless of the AAR's definition. I do not see any other passenger carriers listed by either the AAR or STB.

I would find it very hard to believe that CalTrans or SMART collect almost a half billion in revenue each year.
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Old 11-26-2017, 9:00 PM
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Almost all of NS's licenses have been amended for NXDN emissions now, or are in the process of being done.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burner50 View Post
You're partially correct.

Class 1 refers to a certain class of railroads set by certain standards. To achieve a class 1 status, a railroad must currently have in excess of $452,000,000 in revenue annually.

Standards set by the FRA make operating a class 1 railroad extremely expensive, and most small railroads don't want that status.

Since regular service just recently began, it is impossible for them to be a class 1 railroad.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9JIG View Post
I am unable to find anything to substantiate SMART or CalTrans as "Class One" railroads. Class One refers to specific requirements and are defined as direct from the AAR):

In addition the STB considers Amtrak and VIA as Class One regardless of the AAR's definition. I do not see any other passenger carriers listed by either the AAR or STB.

I would find it very hard to believe that CalTrans or SMART collect almost a half billion in revenue each year.
I'd dare both of you to tell that to the hard working Class I employees of SMART and Caltrain...

Regards,

-Frank C.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franks_ham View Post
I'd dare both of you to tell that to the hard working Class I employees of SMART and Caltrain...

Regards,

-Frank C.
Hard work does not make you a Class 1 railroad. While they may be 1st class employees, that, also, does not make it a class 1 railroad.

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Old 11-27-2017, 8:12 AM
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I am sure they are very good at what they do, but like burner50 said that doesn't make then a Class 1 railroad anymore than it makes them a nationwide carrier.

Class 1 is defined in specific terms regarding revenue, not how well it is done. There have been some pretty terrible Class 1 railroads in the past as well as some pretty good ones. CalTrans and SMART just aren't Class 1. Do not confuse Class 1 with First Class, different animals altogether.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9JIG View Post
I am sure they are very good at what they do, but like burner50 said that doesn't make then a Class 1 railroad anymore than it makes them a nationwide carrier.

Class 1 is defined in specific terms regarding revenue, not how well it is done. There have been some pretty terrible Class 1 railroads in the past as well as some pretty good ones. CalTrans and SMART just aren't Class 1. Do not confuse Class 1 with First Class, different animals altogether.
I'm not confusing anything. The crews all know they are CLASS ONE by FRA standards, as well as the FRA knows they are a CLASS ONE...All I know is SMART is a CLASS ONE railroad using FULL TIME NXDN and that is what the original OP asked about, who's using NXDN.

Regards,

-Frank C.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by franks_ham View Post
I'm not confusing anything. The crews all know they are CLASS ONE by FRA standards, as well as the FRA knows they are a CLASS ONE...All I know is SMART is a CLASS ONE railroad using FULL TIME NXDN and that is what the original OP asked about, who's using NXDN.

Regards,

-Frank C.
Outright false.

Please provide *any* sort of citation for your claim as no organization considers them a Class 1 railroad.

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Old 11-27-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franks_ham View Post
The crews all know they are CLASS ONE by FRA standards, as well as the FRA knows they are a CLASS ONE

The FRA would disagree with that: https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0362

Frank, unless you can provide a proper citation to back your claim up, please stop.

There's no point continuing to argue.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:56 AM
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The OP asked about a specific tower that has gone up adjacent to the railroad tracks near his home in Lorain County, Ohio, and asked if the railroads might be using NXDN in his area. Telling him about NXDN railroad users in California really serves no purpose in this thread.

The OP bowed out of this conversation several days ago. Can you blame him?
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Last edited by W9BU; 11-27-2017 at 11:58 AM.. Reason: corrected spelling
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W9BU View Post
The OP asked about a specific tower that has gone up adjacent to the railroad tracks near his home in Lorain County, Ohio, and asked if the railroads might be using NXDN in his area. Telling him about NXDN railroad users in California really serves no purpose in this thread.

The OP bowed out of this conversation several days ago. Can you blame him?
*Thecnically*, you started it

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Old 11-27-2017, 12:34 PM
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Any “Railroad” that has to submit to any governance with the FTA is NOT a “Class 1 Railroad” and is barely a “Railroad” by definition, and is more of a “Transit” operation. It is what it is.
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Old 11-27-2017, 7:29 PM
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Gents, if you can't answer the OP's original question, please refrain from posting. I think the Class 1 debate has been settled.

Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:56 PM
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This is the most common antenna used for PTC, location and railroad dependent. They are typically collocated with signals (in signaled territory), dispatcher controlled switches or other infrastrure that PTC trains need to talk to.

Most voice communication sites are located in yards, or in other locations that provide wide area coverage. There can be sites located along the tracks, but railroads still locate equipment on commercial towers, high rises or other "non-railroad" locations based on coverage and interference factors.

PTC can by transmitted on any band, and alternate means. Its not exclusive to 220, but 220 is the most common band used.

As previously stated, your best bet is to scan the railroad "Band" to see what is active in your area.

By looking at a radio site, the modulation (analog, digital or other) cannot be determined.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:07 PM
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Is there a breakdown on what railroads are using what bands for PTC?

Have they made considerations for interoperability between railroads?
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:12 PM
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As far as I know, all of the PTC installations on freight railroads are using a common set of frequencies at 220-222 MHz. I suppose that there may be some passenger lines or small operations that don't typically interchange with the Class 1s that are using something else.

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...-549A1_Rcd.pdf
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Old 01-05-2018, 1:03 PM
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No. Each railroad is using whatever band and channels as they see fit in each area. Most common is
220, but CHF, UHF and 900 are being used.
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Old 01-05-2018, 1:03 PM
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*VHF
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Old 01-05-2018, 1:55 PM
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Default PTC comms

The PTC systems that I have maintained have WiFi, Cellular, and 220 links. That is the (US/Canada) national standard (to the best of my knowledge). I assume that some systems augment these frequencies with local ones, but they (PTC) must have the basic three comm links.

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Old 01-06-2018, 10:59 AM
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New Tower erected this past summer on Branson Road in Olmsted Twp. Ohio




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