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Religion - Dog is my copilot. My karma ran over your dogma

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Old 08-12-2015, 6:04 PM
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There is often an ongoing theme among "religious discussions" that there is "my truth" and "your truth" and that they can co-exist. From a logical standpoint, this cannot be true. There can be differing and opposite opinions but there can't be "two truths" so to speak. Put bluntly, God either exists or he doesn't. Two people can have different opinions on the matter but in the context of God's existence, someone is wrong. I am steadfastly of the opinion that there is a God based on observations and, conclusions made based on those observations. This isn't to say that I've seen God but, I've seen enough evidence to satisfy me that said evidence could not exist without a God.

As Corbintechboy pointed out, we all have free will. We are free to chose whether we believe in God or not. If God doesn't exist, then many of us will have spent part of our lives believing in foolish nonsense and when we die, nothing more will become of it. However, if in fact God does exist, then we have someone to answer to.

I have many friends who don't share the same belief in God that I do. While I'm not happy with that, they are still my friends. I don't mock them or belittle them for their beliefs, nor do they mine. They are still my friends (and family). The sarcasm, snide remarks and attacks offer no value.
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Old 08-12-2015, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by corbintechboy View Post

Think what you want using your free will but also respect my right to have free will.
Exactly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and everyone should respect each other's opinion without the hate and anger. So many folks I know start off every religious discussion by saying "My facts are the only true facts in the universe and anything you say that differs obviously is a lie, I know the truth and you should start listening to me."

I agree with you 100%... this is where religion sucks, most will go to any length including force to make others see that their way is the only way. Facts will always stand on their own without need of any help.

Faith and belief can be wonderful things, but they are nothing more than interpretations and opinions... and there's nothing wrong with that! If anyone actually had the real facts... provable, tangible, universal, indisputable facts, that were undeniable to everyone, there would only be one religion. Obviously that's not happening.

Until those real facts on that subject are at hand (and maybe someday they will be), one real fact that we can all agree on - a fact proven and undeniable by what is going on in the world today - is that we really do need to respect other's opinions and get along with each other.

.
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Old 08-12-2015, 6:38 PM
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This is some good dialog. keep it up everyone. I will be going to church tonight, and I will pray for all that has been a part of this conversation. And let us not forget our first responders when we go to our prayers.
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Old 08-12-2015, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bharvey2 View Post
There is often an ongoing theme among "religious discussions" that there is "my truth" and "your truth" and that they can co-exist. From a logical standpoint, this cannot be true. There can be differing and opposite opinions but there can't be "two truths" so to speak. Put bluntly, God either exists or he doesn't. Two people can have different opinions on the matter but in the context of God's existence, someone is wrong. I am steadfastly of the opinion that there is a God based on observations and, conclusions made based on those observations. This isn't to say that I've seen God but, I've seen enough evidence to satisfy me that said evidence could not exist without a God.

As Corbintechboy pointed out, we all have free will. We are free to chose whether we believe in God or not. If God doesn't exist, then many of us will have spent part of our lives believing in foolish nonsense and when we die, nothing more will become of it. However, if in fact God does exist, then we have someone to answer to.

I have many friends who don't share the same belief in God that I do. While I'm not happy with that, they are still my friends. I don't mock them or belittle them for their beliefs, nor do they mine. They are still my friends (and family). The sarcasm, snide remarks and attacks offer no value.
I feel we are on the right track. I feel we are on the path of truth and will be rewarded for being on that path. Besides, if we live by the bible (where even many professed Christians don't) then we are living a good life and being good to others. So, even if it all turns out to be untrue, we were good to others and we hurt nobody and lived a good, wholesome life.

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Originally Posted by fxdscon View Post
Exactly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and everyone should respect each other's opinion without the hate and anger. So many folks I know start off every religious discussion by saying "My facts are the only true facts in the universe and anything you say that differs obviously is a lie, I know the truth and you should start listening to me."

I agree with you 100%... this is where religion sucks, most will go to any length including force to make others see that their way is the only way. Facts will always stand on their own without need of any help.

Faith and belief can be wonderful things, but they are nothing more than interpretations and opinions... and there's nothing wrong with that! If anyone actually had the real facts... provable, tangible, universal, indisputable facts, that were undeniable to everyone, there would only be one religion. Obviously that's not happening.

Until those real facts on that subject are at hand (and maybe someday they will be), one real fact that we can all agree on - a fact proven and undeniable by what is going on in the world today - is that we really do need to respect other's opinions and get along with each other.

.

Your right. However, even facts become skewed.

Look at the Jewish people. They don't even worship Jesus (most of them anyways). They would have the most facts, through history, to support Jesus. But they believe that He did not fulfill the prophesy of God.

I only very recently have become a Christian. I have never been blind about the bible. I have studied it many times. I however also denied God (not that there was a God, just that God could never be understood).

I had to search out my own version of fact. I had to look at history. I had to see, who, besides the bible was talking about Jesus.There was plenty. Then to see the world and how much worse it is getting, I found myself believing more and more.

But something I have always believed in even before I have believed in God. Freedom is without prejudice, it is a hard pill to swallow. If I hate gay people, I have to respect their right to be free because I have the right to be free. I love guns, but I have to respect those who hate guns. The list goes on.

As a people, we like to believe in freedom. We however seem to enjoy freedom when it aligns with our beliefs and our own wants and needs. Freedom is much like free will to me. Even if I think (and personally know) that my way is right, I have to respect the ability of others to not see things as I do.

I don't believe we will ever live in peace. We adore our own ideology entirely to much. And when ideologies align with others, we now have power in that ideology and it becomes a fact because the group has many that believe the same as they do.

It's a mess.
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxdscon;2436131
Faith and belief can be wonderful things, but they are nothing more than interpretations and opinions... and there's nothing wrong with that! If anyone actually had the [I
real[/I] facts... provable, tangible, universal, indisputable facts, that were undeniable to everyone, there would only be one religion. Obviously that's not happening.

Until those real facts on that subject are at hand (and maybe someday they will be), one real fact that we can all agree on - a fact proven and undeniable by what is going on in the world today - is that we really do need to respect other's opinions and get along with each other.

.
Consider this: In the Bible,There are a number of times that Satan is in the presence of God, even speaking with him. (The book of Job) Satan has undeniable proof of God's existence and dominion, however Satan was still cast out of heaven and the Bible states that at some point, he will be subjected to eternity in Hell. Whether you believe this to be literal or metaphorical, it seems quite clear that there are some who will deny God (not his existence, but his authority) regardless of the facts presented.

Corbintechboy,

You mentioned that you recently became a Christian and that you've spent a good deal of time researching and studying the Bible. This is excellent for Christians and non Christians alike! Faith should not be blind. It needs to be based on some level of verifiable evidence. The Bereans of the Bible listened intently to the teaching of Paul and went back among themselves to cross check what he taught against known, trusted resources. (See Acts 17). However, this was more than just an intellectual exercise. They listened, examined, verified and eventually believed in the message of the Gospel of who Jesus really was. - Hence faith.

All,

Much has been said about showing respect for others' beliefs. However, this can go too far to the extremes in both directions. Great evil has been carried out in the name of God. Think ISIS now or the Crusades centuries ago. A "live or let live" attitude isn't the right way either. Jesus turned over the tables of the money changers at the temple. However he sat and ate with sinners and tax collectors. (See Matthew ch 2 and 9) So, gleaning a clear cut message from the Bible on how to address differing beliefs isn't obvious. It was clear though, that Jesus had compassion on those who were against him. (He stops a sword-wielding Peter and heals one of his captors.)

Unfortunately, we don't have cut and dried "marching orders" on how to deal with people who oppose our faith, whatever it is. My own opinion?: We don't do so well with a list of Do's and Don'ts. When presented with Mosaic law, mankind was not only unable to follow its direction but distorted it to such a degree that we were doing each other harm. We get too cocky when left to our own devices are better served giving pause and considering: WWJD?
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