RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Computer Aided Monitoring and Programming > Scanner Programming Software

Scanner Programming Software - This is the place to discuss third party scanner programming and control software.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 3:39 PM
n4yek's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newport, Tennessee
Posts: 2,436
Default Using Freescan to program

I have used a 396T for years and am thinking of finally upgrading to an XT or P2 version scanner.

I know the newer models program a little differently when it comes to multiple sites of a system.
Currently I have to duplicate all talkgroups for each site I create and I know the new models can go about it differently by programming mutiple site and only programming the talkgroups once.

I have attached a Freescan file and have made a program for Tennessee's statewide TACN system.
What I made isn't the true frequencies and talkgroups are also made up
but here is a link to the actual TACN listing if you need to look at it.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6355

I am just asking for anyone to look and see if I would be programming multiple sites correctly.
If not please tell me what I would be doing incorrectly.
Thanks
Attached Files
File Type: zip test.zip (1.2 KB, 16 views)
__________________
Danny

A blood donor saved my life (Matthew 26:28)
If 'con' is opposite of 'pro', is Congress the opposite of progress?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 3:48 PM
n4yek's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newport, Tennessee
Posts: 2,436
Default

I have asked the thread to be moved to Scanner Programming Software, placed here by mistake.
__________________
Danny

A blood donor saved my life (Matthew 26:28)
If 'con' is opposite of 'pro', is Congress the opposite of progress?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 3:48 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

You do it by creating multiple sites and the various groups, containing talkgroup IDs.

Nothing difficult, just add a site record containing the additional frequencies.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 3:49 PM
KevinC's Avatar
Moderator---not censor
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Unincorporated Ft. Bend County
Posts: 2,855
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4yek View Post
I have asked the thread to be moved to Scanner Programming Software, placed here by mistake.
Moved.
__________________
Someone told me signatures are silly, so I got rid of mine.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 4:57 PM
n9mxq's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belvidere IL
Posts: 1,287
Default

I imported my 396t programming directly into my p2's, no changes needed. If you get either P2 and add the DMR upgrade, Freescan will no longer work for programming, you'll need Proscan or ArcXT.
__________________
Gene
Is there such a thing as too many radios??
Transceivers, receivers, and SDR! Oh My!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 5:07 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n9mxq View Post
I imported my 396t programming directly into my p2's, no changes needed. If you get either P2 and add the DMR upgrade, Freescan will no longer work for programming, you'll need Proscan or ArcXT.
This is a valid way to keep your database if you want to share it across p2, XT ant T.

If you want to take advantage of multiple site features of p2 and xt, just add appropriate site records to appropriate systems and you will scan faster than having each site in there as a separate system.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 5:12 PM
n9mxq's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belvidere IL
Posts: 1,287
Default

Exactly. With my county (Starcom 21 P25) I had the site for my county, and just added the sites for the counties around it. When you add the GPS, it will pick which site it's closest to. No need to duplicate talkgroups and all that
__________________
Gene
Is there such a thing as too many radios??
Transceivers, receivers, and SDR! Oh My!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 6:29 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n9mxq View Post
Exactly. With my county (Starcom 21 P25) I had the site for my county, and just added the sites for the counties around it. When you add the GPS, it will pick which site it's closest to. No need to duplicate talkgroups and all that
Yep.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2017, 10:19 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4yek View Post
I am just asking for anyone to look and see if I would be programming multiple sites correctly.
I looked at the file in FreeScan. You are on the right track. (I'm presuming you did a "down and dirty" thing and not added all the control frequencies, etc.)

Press on! (Just be mindful that the XT/P2 have certain "Absolute Memory Limits" and attempting to program an entire statewide system may exceed those limits, depending how much stuff you want to program.)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 7:30 AM
n4yek's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newport, Tennessee
Posts: 2,436
Default

Thanks for all the replies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofd8001 View Post
I looked at the file in FreeScan. You are on the right track.
Thanks, that's what I was asking for
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofd8001 View Post
Just be mindful that the XT/P2 have certain "Absolute Memory Limits" and attempting to program an entire statewide system may exceed those limits, depending how much stuff you want to program.
Thanks for the input, I only monitor certain agencies and only travel in the eastern part of the state and my current 396T has enough memory with about 50% to spare.
The only reason I am considering an upgrade is because my 396T is getting wear and tear....speaker getting scratchy, headphone jack is flaky, keypad numbers rubbing off, display scratched....etc.

Thanks to you all for your input.
__________________
Danny

A blood donor saved my life (Matthew 26:28)
If 'con' is opposite of 'pro', is Congress the opposite of progress?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 1:36 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

You get a talkgroup of 500 records for frequencies, talkgroups and radio ID records for each system.

So while you can do multiple sites in the XT and P2, some big systems won't even fit the sites let alone the talkgroups. Freescan will let you add them, but your upload to the radio will blow up.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 1:38 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4yek View Post
Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks, that's what I was asking for

Thanks for the input, I only monitor certain agencies and only travel in the eastern part of the state and my current 396T has enough memory with about 50% to spare.
The only reason I am considering an upgrade is because my 396T is getting wear and tear....speaker getting scratchy, headphone jack is flaky, keypad numbers rubbing off, display scratched....etc.

Thanks to you all for your input.
It's not the total memory that is the issue, it is the total number (500) of records you can have for a system. You can run out of system memory before you get to 2% of total memory.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 4:00 PM
ProScan's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ontario, Calif.
Posts: 2,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmith View Post
It's not the total memory that is the issue, it is the total number (500) of records you can have for a system. You can run out of system memory before you get to 2% of total memory.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Actually that's incorrect, again. What's a record anyways?

BCD996T memory limits are
500 Systems
1000 Sites
6000 Channels (Frequencies and TGID's)

BCD996P2 memory limits are
500 Systems
1000 Sites
25000 Channels (Frequencies and TGID's)

Last edited by ProScan; 05-07-2017 at 4:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 4:29 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

You can only put 500 records into any of those 500 systems. Don't believe me... try it. One record equals 1 frequency, or one talkgroup, or one radio ID.

You can put 500 systems in there if you want. But you will blow up on 1 system if you go more than 500 records.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 5:06 PM
Wiki Admin Emeritus
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bowie, Md.
Posts: 20,370
Default

I would make sure that you do at least one full erase to make sure any of the pre loaded systems are dropped from active memory, which will save you some space. It's in red on the FreeScan upload channels form, you can't miss it.

Something else to mention, and it is in the user guide, but not everyone reads it - FS will not handle DMR or ProVoice systems. You must use ARC-XT or ProScan if you wish to hear these systems (and have done the firmware upgrade, natch)

Mike
__________________
links editor, Utility Monitoring Central
HF Forum moderator, RadioReference
Friends don't let friends buy Scancat Lite Plus!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 7:04 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 294
Default Freescan and ProVoice

Just a minor correction of mis-information out there: Freescan DOES handle ProVoice just fine--as long as the scanner is properly updated for it. It is, after all, only digital demodulation of an EDACS system. You'll note that the other programs don't specify "ProVoice" like they do for "DMR" or "MotoTrbo" ... my P2s are living proof. If you're doing DMR, of course you're correct.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 7:41 PM
n9mxq's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belvidere IL
Posts: 1,287
Default

I stand corrected. Thanks bc780l.. I hate spreading misinformation

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
__________________
Gene
Is there such a thing as too many radios??
Transceivers, receivers, and SDR! Oh My!
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 8:53 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,051
Default

Well. . .

There are several versions of the "x96" model scanners. There are varying memory limits - generally the newer the model, the more generous the memory.

While the "total" memory used on the scanner may show a lot left, there are limits on trunked systems. A trunked system can be full, but as Mark Smith says, that is not shown when viewing the scanner memory via they keypad.

The Uniden 396T manual, on page 121, says: "Channels per Trunked System: up to 200". That means the number of Talkgroup IDs plus the number of frequencies programmed as control channels cannot exceed 200. If someone tries to exceed that number, during the writing to the scanner process a message says something like "Error not enough channel resources", if I remember correctly from trying to overload a memory.

When I ran into that, I was kind of baffled because the scanner said there was lots of memory left. Only when I dug into the manual did I figure out the issue.

Lastly, the XT model scanner won't do P25 Phase 2. While the TN system has mostly Phase 1 talkgroups, there are a few Phase 2 talkgroups showing up in the database. So a "P2" scanner is encouraged. And if there is travel involved, a GPS device is worth consideration.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:43 PM
marksmith's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anne Arundel County, MD
Posts: 3,411
Default

I believe the 396T had the 200 record per system limit, and when the 396XT came out, the DMA memory architecture was extended to 500 records per system. This remains the same in the 996xt, 996p2, and 325 p2 as they are all still based on the original 396/996 XT DMA memory.

This was fairly adequate back when these radios were released, as few if any statewide trunking systems with many sites and talkgroups existed.

Since then, a firmware release also enabled UID radio ID decoding, which was not originally in the initial firmware.
In addition, quite a number of new statewide systems have gone online.

Between these two factors, the trunked system limitation of the DMA memory structure of the 396/996 XT radios has come to be well known. A typical county system can easily have 10,000 UID radio ID'S in addition to the system frequencies and talkgroups. A single site system can easily stop loading to any of these radios because of memory limitations even though it is only one system with a single site.

Statewide systems with ten to 50 sites can exceed this limitation before you even start adding talkgroups in these radios.

One workaround is to add the systems by separate site, or break out talkgroups or UID records across the same system entered multiple times. In any case, there is still a severe limitation, and it has nothing to do with the total memory of the radio.

This system limitation is the main reason that SD cards, without size limitations (other than 1 meg for a favorites list) became the memory medium, rather than the fixed DMA dynamic memory.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2017, 2:16 PM
n4yek's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newport, Tennessee
Posts: 2,436
Default

Thanks guys for the information on the Trunk system limits.
I don't have that problem here where I am at as I only program certain things I want to monitor and don't program those which do not interest me.
I also only program tower sites I travel in, no need for me to have a tower site that is 300 miles away from me if I never go there.
I then scan in 'scan' mode so I don't hear all traffic.

I have thought about getting Proscan in the past, just have never taken the step to do so.
__________________
Danny

A blood donor saved my life (Matthew 26:28)
If 'con' is opposite of 'pro', is Congress the opposite of progress?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions