Antennacraft ST-2

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krazybob

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I am finally going to try the ST-2. One reason is because in Los Angeles we still have CHP on low band. I've owned 4 Ferret's and they are all less than a discone in performance. I have tried them from ground level and from my main listening perch at 6,400 feet over southern California. From up here it can be difficult to hear the distance in some respects.

Nonetheless, I've read that the ST-2 can be a bit directional on 800MHz. How directional? Looking at it it is a dipole with what appears to be a reflector. In close it won't make much difference. But how about at a distance?
 

K5MPH

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krazybob said:
I am finally going to try the ST-2. One reason is because in Los Angeles we still have CHP on low band. I've owned 4 Ferret's and they are all less than a discone in performance. I have tried them from ground level and from my main listening perch at 6,400 feet over southern California. From up here it can be difficult to hear the distance in some respects.

Nonetheless, I've read that the ST-2 can be a bit directional on 800MHz. How directional? Looking at it it is a dipole with what appears to be a reflector. In close it won't make much difference. But how about at a distance?

With this antenna I receive 800 MHz 30 miles away .....
 

krazybob

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It is frustrating to ask a question and get an answer totally unrelated to the question.

Some users have stated that the ST-2 is slightly directional on 800MHz. If so, how much?

This antenna is at a remote receiver location and I cannot just go out and turn the antenna to test it. It's 65 miles away.

Your answers on point would be greatly appreciated.
 

popnokick

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There is another thread here on RR in which the owner of an ST-2 produced spectrograms demonstrating that the ST-2 did indeed have some directional characteristics. However he did not explain WHICH SIDE of the antenna exhibited more received signal than the rest of the antenna. In other words, how to orient the ST-2 for max signal in a given direction.

I would link to the thread but alas that is difficult to do from the iPhone view of RR. So please search to locate the thread that I am referring to.
 

n4yek

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It is frustrating to ask a question and get an answer totally unrelated to the question.

Some users have stated that the ST-2 is slightly directional on 800MHz. If so, how much?

This antenna is at a remote receiver location and I cannot just go out and turn the antenna to test it. It's 65 miles away.

Your answers on point would be greatly appreciated.

OK,
The antenna is slightly directional but not enough that it matters which way you point it. It take 6db of signal to move 1 "s" unit on a scale and I can tell you it does not have anything close to that much directional gain.
If you need that much signal gain, you need to invest in a directional beam antenna.

I offered an antenna that works just as good as the one you are asking about, but it seems you are determined to get the ST-2. Just get it and put it up, you won't be dissapointed.
 

krazybob

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I have the ST-2 up on top of a hill in the geographic center of our county and I can tell you that it does not compare with what I took down. I had hoped that it would but it failed miserably. For example, UHF stations 30 miles away that previously were full strength are no longer. My method follows tried and true antenna use.

For the best reception I have a 6dB gain Tram collinear for VHF. I have a 5/8 wave Cushcraft Ringo for lowband (CHP) and a UHF Tram collinear for UHF. These each feed into a Diamond MX2000 triplexer used in reverse. One LMR400 run then feeds a 4-channel coupler feeding 4 digital scanners at this location. This same setup works from my home at 6,400 feet overlooking So. California but with 12 radios. I have a couple of LPDA's that I can switch in depending on where the fire is. Finishing this off I have a 7dB gain cable TV amplifier at the triplexer and after a PAR Electronics VHF and UHF intermod filters. It makes up for line loss. I had high hopes for the simplicity of the ST-2 but it just can't do what $$$ could do.

Now that I have added the need for 800MHz I'll replace the UHF Tram antenna with a discone. This will work extremely well! It was in use for several years and I thought that I'd try just one antenna that came highly recommended. Sadly, it does not fit my requirements. I need distance. It would be great if someone made a great UHF/800MHz antenna but absent that I'll have to use a discone.

Danny, you should not be so offended (or verbal) but your antenna has no specifications or expectations included with "you didn't ask about this antenna but I like it better." I've been building antennas since I was 12 -- 41 years. I just built an OCF dipole for 80-6m. Please don't take it so personal.
 

krazybob

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Using a vector analyzer and a service monitor I tested the ST-2 and found that not only is it directional on all bands but it is not as good as a discone in some situations. I am going back to running a triplexer in reverse with a VHF low band antenna on port 1, a 6dB VHF antenna on port 2, and a 6.5dB gain UHF antenna on port 3.

But this creates a problem. The 800MHz I need to hear is 20 miles away. I figure if I can get enough signal from 800MHz on the UHF stick I can place a 20dB preamp in front of just that scanner. Even 100 feet of LMR400 loses much of the signal.

I've thought of using a discone for just 480/860 but that is a loss. Stations previously heard 5x5 are barely perceptible now. VHF on the ST-2 is at a loss. A mountain community 6 miles from the receive site is only 4 bars now instead of 6. I have a program that I wrote that will tell me the signal strength (RSSI) reported by the Uniden scanners. Both the Ferret (I own 3) and the ST-2 (I own 4) are highly over rated.

Does anyone have a better solution for transitioning between 480 and 860? They might actually function if connected through a T and let physics choose the antenna. Or I can add a Diamond MX3000 that transitions. Port 2 covers 350-500MHz and 850-1300GHz. Port 3 on the MX2000 covers 300-950MHz. The added loss actually helps keep the scanner from overloading and creating its own intermod (a non-linear mixer.)

In spite of having many answers I submit that many of you may have better answers. I'll be running my feeds through here and I need your help getting the most out of a mere scanner. I CAN actually put a commercial 800MHz radio (MCS2000) in service along with a Yaesu VX-4200 501 channel VHF and UHF but no alphanumeric readout or remote control. I will humbly accept advice and hopefully what I have detailed will be found useful by others trying to do multiple radios right.
 

krazybob

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My VHF sucks. My remote monitoring station is located 8.85 miles from Sierra Madre on the same site that the Forest Service has one of their repeaters. It is ideal to be out and away from the mountains one wants to listen to. But as I said the signal dropped from 6 bars down to 4 even though I have the antenna side mounted and aimed right at Sierra Madre. On UHF is Irwindale off to my right about 15 degrees. They are 5 miles away and are only a S2-3 but from my main location at 6,400 feet in the mountains 2 hours east of Los Angeles I can hear Irwindale full quieting. I can hear Long Beach and the Grand Prix full quieting. Not with the ST-2. I can hear South Bay Regional Public Safety that I cannot hear with the ST-2.

I've heard of vendors strongly recommending 20dB wide band preamps for Ferrets, discones and ST-2's and this is just wrong. A scanner does not have the ability to fight off strong front-end overload and all of a sudden its bleep, bleep, blaaa. The only solution then is to hit the 20dB attenuator on the channel and that is a waste of an outdoor antenna and an expensive $300 preamp.

I have learned many tricks that I am happy to share. In this case the ST-2 may be saved by going to MCM Electronics and buying a CATV preamp that comes AFTER a PAR Electronics intermod filter for VHF and one for UHF. This will knock down pager noise at least 35dB and I've proved it in practice and by watching on a spectrum analyzer. I live 1.2 miles from Heaps Peak at 6,425 feet.

There is an extremely powerful VHF paging transmitter there that wipes out the front-end on even my commercial radios. With just a PAR filter I can erase that.

CATV Preamp: MCM Electronics - Search Results for catv preamp

Inline CATV Preamp: In-Line 11dB Signal Amplifier | 33-917 (33917) | Distributed By MCM

PAR Filters: PAR Electronics | Filters for the commercial 2 way market, MATV, FM broadcast, laboratory, marine industry, amateur radio, scanner and short wave listening enthusiasts

This is my favorite because at 11dB it is just strong enough to overcome cable loss at 800MHz. It mounts at the antenna using the appropriate adapter. The ST-2 needs no F adapter at this point. The same precaution of placing a PAR filter in front of it is critical. One has to knock down the crap before amplifying. Used with the ST-2 I think you're UHF will be restored. If you aren't in a large metro area you can try it without the PAR filters. PAR Electronics | Filters for the commercial 2 way market, MATV, FM broadcast, laboratory, marine industry, amateur radio, scanner and short wave listening enthusiasts. Dale is a nice man and will help you.

If need be you may purchase a bunch of 3, 6, 12 and 12dB F connector or BNC connector attenuators or the inpout to the scanner. The way I use them is to look at the baseline RF level on the scanner. 2 bars? Use a 3dB or 6dB attenuator until it is 0 bars. This is your baseline.

I am not going to dump these ST-2's on eBay just yet. As for the Ferrets at almost $400 to get delivered it is an excellent antenna for UHF mil-air up to 500MHz. All of the other bands suck. Using the above techniques will bring life to an antenna that like a ST-2 is a compromise to begin with.
 

LIScanner101

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I am still AMAZED at how the Ferret is still in production. It's almost impossible to find ANY good press about it, yet it still sells..... :eek:
 

krazybob

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I am still AMAZED at how the Ferret is still in production. It's almost impossible to find ANY good press about it, yet it still sells..... :eek:

I'm amazed that I bought three of them! LOL. A discone works far better.

I ran more tests on the ST-2 and tossed it aside today. I really think that a Radio Shack mobile 20-032 on a ground plane will work just as well if not better than a discone.

I tested Long Beach, CA police from up here at Butterfly Base (don't laugh, my daughter named it.) We're at 6,400 feet 2 hours east of Los Angeles and about 70 miles from Long Beach. The remote site can barely hear Long Beach and it is 20 miles away. That is sucksville. Using an 800MHz rubber ducky with a BNC connector I can hear Long Beach with 6 bars and 70 miles away. That tells us all we need to know about the famed ST-2. I also triedn using a Tram 1486 UHF 6.5dB gain base antenna and can hear Long Beach from here with and without an 11dB inline amplifier. But that isn't a fair test.

I think this pretty much ends the thread. For local stuff the ST-2 may be fine.
 
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