Anybody have a decent set of specs for these modes?

[KE7IZL]

I'm looking for specs on piccolo and coquelet (interesting MFSK modes in that they are both named for actual musical instruments). I'm considering making a TX program for at least coquelet because MultiPSK supports RX of this mode, but no TX. If anybody would be fortunate to have the needed specs:
baud rate
frequency spacing
exact manner in which bits are mapped to frequencies
alphabet used if not ASCII (and if ASCII, is it 7 or 8 bits)
what order are bits transmitted in (MSB first or LSB first)

If I know this much I will likely be able to make a transmitter for the mode using Visual Basic.

 

[Token]

You might want to do a little more basic research and narrow down which Piccolo or which Coquelet you want to start with. There are multiple versions of each, and the different versions have different characteristics.

For example, Piccolo, depending on the version, can be 50 or 75 baud. It can use ITA-2 Baudot or ITA-5 ASCII. The number of tones can be 6 or 12 (Piccolo 6 or 12), and while tone spacing is most commonly 20 Hz other spacing’s can be seen.

And that is assuming you are not including CROWD 36, sometimes called “Russian Piccolo”, and based on British Piccolo Mk1.

And last, but far from least, why would you want to make these tones, what is your goal? I can understand building a decoder for them, but why emulate the transmission without some means of demodulating them? And if you did want to just make the tones, why not use something simple and stand alone like a Basic Stamp/PIC/etc?

T!

 

[KE7IZL]

You might want to do a little more basic research and narrow down which Piccolo or which Coquelet you want to start with. There are multiple versions of each, and the different versions have different characteristics.

For example, Piccolo, depending on the version, can be 50 or 75 baud. It can use ITA-2 Baudot or ITA-5 ASCII. The number of tones can be 6 or 12 (Piccolo 6 or 12), and while tone spacing is most commonly 20 Hz other spacing’s can be seen.

And that is assuming you are not including CROWD 36, sometimes called “Russian Piccolo”, and based on British Piccolo Mk1.

And last, but far from least, why would you want to make these tones, what is your goal? I can understand building a decoder for them, but why emulate the transmission without some means of demodulating them? And if you did want to just make the tones, why not use something simple and stand alone like a Basic Stamp/PIC/etc?

T!

Coquelet DOES have a way of decoding it. It's MultiPSK. I'm surprized you didn't mention Coquelet in your reply. What I'm looking for is some very good specs sheet that has these 2 modes (with descriptions of their submodes) so I can write a TX software for these modes.

If you do not know of such a reference please say so. If you do have such a reference please post the link to the website.

Whatever you do do not post an OFF TOPIC comment lecturing me about making a TX software for which I have no RX software.

Sorry if I sound angry, but it's because I'm DESPERATE. I've been looking for YEARS for some reference sheet on the specs for these modes ALL OVER GOOGLE (the best search engine), and even GOOGLE can't find such specs sheets. Now SURELY someone at a site like RadioReference.com would know of some special (not indexed on Google) website that has specs for most existing digital modes. I just wanna know what that website is.

 

[ka3jjz]

Enough, IZL. Those questions were legitimate and deserved more than that.

I don't recall seeing many non-ham logs anywhere for Piccolo or Coquelet transmissions, certainly not recently (There are several Crowd36 logs just recently in the UDXF, however...). However, I would suggest you post in the Utility DXers Forum on Yahoo - there are a great many digital specialty folks there, particularly from Europe. You may find some answers there. There may also be some other digital-related groups that might have some information. Don't just rely on one search engine...

Best Regards..Mike

 

[OCO]

Technical informations - Systems

 

[ka3jjz]

Great find, CJDC. The site looks a bit on the old side, but might just be a good starting point...best regards..Mike

 

[KE7IZL]

Technical informations - Systems

Thanks for the info. I'll have to look through that. I'm definitely going to bookmark that site.

 

[ka3jjz]

Some of that site is in Italian, but if you're using Chrome, it pops up with an offer to translate. My Italian is pretty rusty - 40 years of not using it will do that to you - but it's a reasonable translation.

As an aside, MultiPSK also has its own Yahoo group. That too might be an additional source of information

best regards..Mike

 

[Token]

If you do not know of such a reference please say so. If you do have such a reference please post the link to the website.

Since I quoted specifics in my post I believe maybe you are jumping to some incorrect conclusions. For example the fact that Piccolo uses both ITA-2 Baudot and ITA-5 ASCII depending on the specific mode, the 50 and 75 baud rates, and the 20 Hz tone spacing. However, not everything is on the web, some references are actually in print, as mine tend to be. Hard to post a link to a reference manual in my library, one that is not on the web in more than review form.

The Hoka page has been suggested, and you might search for the Digital Signals FAQ, V5.3 or later, but they will only contain about the same information…and less than I passed already.

Whatever you do do not post an OFF TOPIC comment lecturing me about making a TX software for which I have no RX software.

There was not one single off-topic item in my post. Since I do not feel like retyping a full section from a book I said you might need to narrow down to exactly which versions and modes you were interested in.

My question about why you wanted to make TX software for a mode that you might not have demod software for was not a lecture, just an attempt to find out what your goals were, so I could better decide what information to pass on to you.

Since you feel I am wasting your time with my responses I will vacate myself from this thread, enjoy the search for the information you seek.

Sorry if I sound angry, but it's because I'm DESPERATE. I've been looking for YEARS for some reference sheet on the specs for these modes ALL OVER GOOGLE (the best search engine), and even GOOGLE can't find such specs sheets. Now SURELY someone at a site like RadioReference.com would know of some special (not indexed on Google) website that has specs for most existing digital modes. I just wanna know what that website is.

As I said before, not everything can be found on the web or in Google. Printed manuals and libraries are still a valid source. The more costly a reference manual is, the less likely you will find it for free.

T!

 

[KE7IZL]

I just found THIS!
WAVECOM Online Help 7.2 - Coquelet
Its coquelet specs are enough to make some TX software out of when combined with a baudot code reference (for which you can find about as many online as ascii tables, which is a lot).

The main page WAVECOM Online Help 7.2 should be in a sticky post somewhere, as it has info on TONS of modes (often not enough to make software out of, but there's definitely lots of useful info on many modes, most of which are rare). However a moderator will have to do that, as I don't have that ability.

 

[ka3jjz]

I can take care of that later today - that's another good find, which I'll combine with the other one...best regards..Mike

 

[KE7IZL]

Unfortunately it doesn't produce a set of tones which work with MultiPSK's Coquelet decoder, I wonder what conversion table (bits to tones) MultiPSK is using? I tried my program out using the specifications given here in my program code but sound is decoded incorrectly by multipsk.

 

[KE7IZL]

Also typically bits are given for a 5 bit code as 0 to 4 (with these numbers being powers of 2 so bit zero controls if a binary number contains a 2, up to bit 4 which controls if the binary number contains a 16). however in the reference material in question it calls them bits 1 to 5, but as this is a non standard way it should specify which bit number (1 or 5) is the least significant bit. However it doesn't do so. So I'm stuck trying to figure out just what numbers that table of coquelet bits to tones actually means. And as a programmer I find that a rather disgusting situation, and I'm considering writing Wavecom a scathing email for such inadequate documentation. If they are gonna sell a decoder software, and provide the specs in the manual, at least they should include the full specs (not partial specs, as they are currently doing) for each mode so that someone can implement it in their own software for customized projects.

 

[KE7IZL]

.:Update:.

I ended up writing Wavecom this email:

I'm contacting you about the material in your Wavecom WCode manual. I noticed you provided a description (though an inadequate one) in your manual for the Coquelet modes. I notice you specified bits by 1 to 5 (not the normal 0 to 4) and then you also forgot to state which is the most significant bit (is the MSB the bit that's labeled 1, or is the MSB the bit that's labeled 5). Please provide more complete documentation for the Coquelet modes (and also hopefully for the other modes, many of which had even less complete documentation than the Coquelet modes). I'm interested in writing transmitting software Coquelet (and hopefully a few other uncommon modes) and in the process of writing my program I'm finding my biggest problem is a lack of good documentation for Coquelet (and other uncommon modes) anywhere on the internet, and even your Wavecom documentation is far from a complete enough documentation for me to write any software based on it.