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Shortwave Data Decoding - Discussions regarding decoding digital signals on the HF bands, including HFDL, ALE, RTTY, CW, and others.

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Old 03-20-2018, 12:09 PM
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Default Trying to decode CW

Hello! I'm beginner in radio world and I started with simple thing but I have problem.

I found CW signal on 10.543 Mhz, I google it and figure out that that is Sevatopol in Ukraine. GFD: 10.543 - 1 radio scanner frequencies

I'm downloaded this example of signal in .mp3 file from this web site and trying to decode it with sorcerer. I getting only junk. I watched few youtube videos and there they got some meaningful message.

For this I'm using audacity, virtual cable and sorcerer. Here is picture of this

https://ibb.co/kvLHjc


I also tryed to connect with cable receiver and sound card but than sorcerer don't show any character.
What am I doing wrong?
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Old 03-20-2018, 2:25 PM
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What is the 'junk'? Are you getting letters - I would imagine whatever you are receiving could be encrypted. I spent/wasted a lot of time trying to get some sense out a strong RTTY signal only to find that it was all encoded/encrypted!
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Old 03-20-2018, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henri_007 View Post
Hello! I'm beginner in radio world and I started with simple thing but I have problem.

I found CW signal on 10.543 Mhz, I google it and figure out that that is Sevatopol in Ukraine. GFD: 10.543 - 1 radio scanner frequencies

I'm downloaded this example of signal in .mp3 file from this web site and trying to decode it with sorcerer. I getting only junk. I watched few youtube videos and there they got some meaningful message.

For this I'm using audacity, virtual cable and sorcerer. Here is picture of this

https://ibb.co/kvLHjc


I also tryed to connect with cable receiver and sound card but than sorcerer don't show any character.
What am I doing wrong?
You should really put a brief part of an audio file there and not a screen capture so those can help can use that.
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Old 03-20-2018, 8:07 PM
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10543 could indeed be the Russian Navy - it has been identified as such in the UDXF logs. However, getting 'junk' would be par for the course. Apart from brief comms checks and an ID tape, the logs show little if any readable traffic. And that would be expected for a number of reasons.

Tuning CW is very tricky, and while there are packages - like CWGet - which are highly regarded, you need to be aware of some of the limitations. First, odd rythyms of sending can easily be a product of a person's preference if they're sending by hand (what we call a 'fist' in the ham lingo). Even computer generated CW can be sent using different spacing and rythyms that can fool a CW reader. Any noise or interference on the signal will also give a program fits.

You should also be aware of what audio frequency a particular program might like to see, and how to tune your radio to that tone. Many use a 800hz tone. Also make sure that you narrow your bandwidth so that the radio only 'sees' that signal and nothing else. Anything within that passband might defeat the decoder, regardless of what package you are using. An easy way to understand this would be to imagine a bunch or horses in a corral - it's easier to handle them one at a time rather than having a whole herd of them at once.

To practice CW decoding with any package, your best bet is to go to the ham bands. I'm unsure where you are, but in general, the lower part of each band is reserved for CW. And the 30 meter band - 10100 thru 10150 Khz - is reserved for CW and digital only (no voice). Keep in mind what I said about different fists - it will be good practice.
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Old 03-21-2018, 4:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoco View Post
What is the 'junk'? Are you getting letters - I would imagine whatever you are receiving could be encrypted. I spent/wasted a lot of time trying to get some sense out a strong RTTY signal only to find that it was all encoded/encrypted!
Yes, I'm getting letters but I think that is not what I'm supposed to get. If I understood correctly, on this freqency they emiting some kind of announce for all ships. That's why I thing that is not encrypted.

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Originally Posted by dlwtrunked View Post
You should really put a brief part of an audio file there and not a screen capture so those can help can use that.
I'm trying to decode this file
http://qrg.globaltuners.com/Audio/ID_31285.mp3

From this site
Global Frequency Database: Sevastopol, Ukraine RCV 10.543 MHz/10543 kHz
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Old 03-21-2018, 5:34 AM
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See message 4 of this thread, Henri. According to the UDXF logs of this station, it frequently sends an ID tape along with QTC - this is a Q signal that means 'how many messages do you have to send'. There has been occasional traffic between 2 Russian stations, which would likely be encrypted and unreadable.

Given the current political climate, I have serious doubts that the Russian Navy would be participating in programs like AMVER. In fact, any general broadcast for all ships would likely also be encrypted, or sent by secure satellite

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Last edited by ka3jjz; 03-21-2018 at 5:43 AM..
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:48 AM
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The CW on the MP3 file is mostly random numbers with some words thrown in.. It starts out with M385/14 OTM ?TOTNR and is pretty much that sort of stuff all the way through. (The ? was a non-standard CW symbol).

There are some 'words' I copied.. BORFORU OGONX BUAM NAWIP.. Not sure what these are. It could be secret code, or the CW characters might be representing the Russian or Ukranian Cyrillic alphabet.
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Old 03-21-2018, 2:25 PM
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There's all sorts of accented letters and special characters in there too which would totally confuse a code reader. Good machine morse though.
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Old 03-21-2018, 2:29 PM
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I read somewhere - maybe in an old Klingenfuss manual - that there is a special CW alphabet for Cryllic. Maybe something along those lines...Mike
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Old 03-21-2018, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ka3jjz View Post
I read somewhere - maybe in an old Klingenfuss manual - that there is a special CW alphabet for Cryllic. Maybe something along those lines...Mike
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Morse_code

Also
https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/roma...on/russian.pdf
to transliterate to English pronunciation.
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Old 03-21-2018, 3:23 PM
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forward and backward with math types may decypher if you like experimenting with numbers and letter equals number and vice versa combos ,,, look for common repeated patterns as clues etc
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Old 03-21-2018, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by montana1975 View Post
forward and backward with math types may decypher if you like experimenting with numbers and letter equals number and vice versa combos ,,, look for common repeated patterns as clues etc
the key can be found even with the high level cw jumbled up codes
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Old 03-21-2018, 4:27 PM
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Interesting, dlw. Thanks for the links. And has been noted earlier, this style of Morse would give most readers fits. Everything could very well look like junk even if tuned properly

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Old 03-21-2018, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
forward and backward with math types may decypher if you like experimenting with numbers and letter equals number and vice versa combos ,,, look for common repeated patterns as clues etc
Took Alan Turing a long time too - and he had a band of mathematical minds to help him! Very difficult decode the Enigma machine stuff - the principal is still in use today! We had to keep the circuits busy with dummy traffic otherwise somebody would see a sudden upsurge and think something was up. Trouble was we had to decode everything just in case - although Sunday mornings we usually got all the sports results!
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Old 03-23-2018, 4:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
The CW on the MP3 file is mostly random numbers with some words thrown in.. It starts out with M385/14 OTM ?TOTNR and is pretty much that sort of stuff all the way through. (The ? was a non-standard CW symbol).

There are some 'words' I copied.. BORFORU OGONX BUAM NAWIP.. Not sure what these are. It could be secret code, or the CW characters might be representing the Russian or Ukranian Cyrillic alphabet.
What software did you use?
I'm using sorcerer and got something like this "I EIHTFEITKSSTESISSE)RWTSOUIJEISES5GDIHEEE5IHSIAHXNS "

Last edited by henri_007; 03-23-2018 at 4:42 AM..
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Old 03-23-2018, 8:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henri_007 View Post
What software did you use?
I'm using sorcerer and got something like this "I EIHTFEITKSSTESISSE)RWTSOUIJEISES5GDIHEEE5IHSIAHXNS "

I did it the 'old fashioned way'.. By ear
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Old 03-23-2018, 8:31 AM
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Either way, it's likely to be encrypted and/or unreadable because of the alphabet.

Henri, as I wrote earlier, I would practice getting CW decoding done by using the amateur service. Once you get a good idea on what settings work the best, you can move on to other things

Mike
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Old 04-01-2018, 2:00 PM
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If you get a decode with lots of E's, I's and T's in it, you can bet your last dollar that the decoder speed is wrong!
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Old 04-16-2018, 7:14 PM
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Download fldigi<it is free> look under mode cw press that, tune your station in on the waterfall it does a good job on decoding cw/POB
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Old 04-18-2018, 3:24 PM
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Default "Old fashioned way"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
I did it the 'old fashioned way'.. By ear

for CW it is THE best way. Machines are terrible for it & I doubt there will be any fantastic software for CW. there are too many mistakes that can be made that the "machine" mistakes for a deliberate transmission that may be just noise. There's no replacing the human brain!
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