Updating Corpus Christi TX area systems ?

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Michael-SATX

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Any scanner savy volunteer researchers monitoring down in the Corpus Christi/Nueces Co area ?
Earlier someone noted that in Sentinel they could not select and import any LTR-Net systems to check out.
However the Op noted that he could manually add to his favorites list as a LTR Standard TRS and it scanned OK.
That got me looking over a few Nueces Co LTR-Net/LTR trunking systems which revealed they need some TLC ;)

Check this system - which freq is HR LCN#16 ? : Corpus Christi Independent School District Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies
Anyone that can run a simple Autoplace or LCN Finder can mop up how this LTR Standard system freqs map out.

Please someone buy this system some TG's Valero Refining (Corpus Christi) Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

Same goes for this Centronix Motorola Type II TRS (active?) Centronix (Motorola) Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

As for this system: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7559
Odd this system was originaly posted 2013 with 2 sites as they share the same location and license.
Site#1 Del Mar College Site seems valid as listed group 07 TG's match listed HR #7 LCN site Freq etc.
Site#2 Centronix Site does list only LCN 09 452.2375 and no TG's listed line up to a Home Repeater 09

Solution Steps to work:
1) Run LCN Finder in analyze mode to nail down the valid LCN freqs and what order they all belong in.
2) Run Discovery record in ID Search mode = On and Compare to DB = Off to shore up active TG list.
3) These 2 sites belong to the same 2-way radio provider at 2 addresses & might need 2 separate listings?
4) After carefull research the results may point to editing system type from LTR-Net to LTR Standard
this way Sentinal won't filter out this system like it would other unscannable systems like LTR Passport.
5) Hopefully you are currently in Corpus Christi TX and can knock this research out in your spare time.

001 (1) Del Mar College 03 451.7875c 07 452.125 11 452.3875 5 452.7375
002 (2) Centronix Site only 09 452.2375

0-07-065 A Trucking 07065 Trucking Company Business
0-07-075 A ChemTran7075 Chemical Transport Business
0-07-080 A Del Mar College Del Mar College Campus Security Security
0-07-090 A Constrct7090 Construction Company Business

75W YG License WPNR205 CX INC DBA CENTRONIX - 1100 Navigation Blvd
03-451.7875
07-452.1250
11-452.3875
15-452.7375
??-461.3875 (Listed on License - need to re-map this system to see if this freq belongs)

100W YG License WPQD241 CX INC DBA CENTRONIX 9300 UP RIVER ROAD
09-452.2375
??-451.9125 (7 more Listed on License - need to re-map this system to see if any of these freqs belong?)
??-452.7250
??-453.0125
??-461.8625
??-463.3875
??-463.6625
??-464.7125

Here is yet another license with more freqs on the same tower as above might be another system.
100W YG License WPNP227 CENTRONIX 9300 UP RIVER ROAD
??-451.8625 (tune in these 5 freqs and determine if active and what type of system, discover,ID and post to RRDB)
??-452.0500
??-452.3625
??-452.7750
??-463.2375
 

Michael-SATX

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GREat !!! use your RS Pro-106's LTR AutoMove feature !

I might be able to help with some of that. I'm here in Corpus Christi.

Hello Gus, now that's the Christmas spirit and it's GREat of you to offer to help "shore" up your sparkling city ;)
I'm lQQking at your shack picture for the tools of your trade and see that your a long time loyal member since 02 !
I would use your RS Pro-106 scanners LTR "Autoplace" feature to help you nail down the proper LCN placement.
Since your a premium subscriber that will assist you in importing these RRDB posted systems to be researched.
Do you use Don Starr's WIN500 program from starrsoft.com that will allow importing directly to your scanner ?
If not you could manually load up new LTR systems please just ensure that the "AutoMove HR's" is set to ON.
Start here Corpus Christi Independent School District Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies
The task at hand is to mop up after the person that blindly submitted the LCN's without regard to their actual order.
Now school is out for the break however, these LTR repeaters most likely broadcast CWID's ever 30 min or so ?
After you load up with the posted talkgroups make sure to also add a "Wildcard" TG and then manually sit on it.
As repeaters hopefully automaticaly CWID at regular intervals this will reveal their actual Logical Channel Number.
current LTR LCN 01 451.6625 02 461.9375 03 461.9625 04 462.1625 05 463.4875 06 463.8375 07 464.5875
Now with posted talkgroups all indicating Home Repeater 16 you can see that posted LCN's 1 thru 7 are wrong.
It would be faster to nail down with active talkgroups, but after loaded you could TSYS/Analyze each freq to ID.

Did you ever get another Uniden BCDx36HP scanner after your 436's display went bad ? Have a Home Patrol ?
These models are ideal tools to first perform LCN Finder to ID channel map structure and Discovery to ID TG's.
I also see in you 2015 shack photo an RS Pro-164 which could be allocated to monitor any LTR Standard TRS
once you use your RS Pro-106 to nail down the proper LCN order then using that data load your 164 and 396 !

Thanks for stepping up to plate to shore up these systems so that they can be properly monitored by locals.

btw ~ I see a little unintended friendly competition between Austin (population 1+ Mil) vs Corpus Christi (300K+)
to see who can successfully perform AND POST to the RRDB an updated LTR LCN Finder proceedure ;)
I posted a thread for help on a simple LTR system in Austin back on Nov 17 2017 and it's not done yet :(
 

gus426

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Hi I actually don't have the Pro-651 anymore I do have an HP1 BCD436HP 2- BCD396XT PRO-164 and some other older scanners I usually just program the scanners and listen to them I don't usually get into some of the other features I'm pretty good at technical stuff so I'm sure I can figure out how to use these features. Where do you think is a good place to start>? I've never heard anything on the CCISD system ever. So I might need some guidance on which software programs or scanner features to use.

Gus
 

Michael-SATX

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Hi Gus, does your Uniden Home Patrol HP-1 happen to have the extra $50 Extreme Upgrade ?
If not you can still have the "School" service type enabled and perform an LCN Finder to sort out LCN's.
Same goes for your BCD436HP to help figure out the proper LTR LCN map to track this system.
After such a point on your 436 you could HOLD on the CCISD TRS and Record when school is back in.
It makes sense that with CCISD using HR16 position that wrong 1-7 LCN positons won't let you scan.

Try starting there as some other of the systems are in the RRDB as LTR-Net filtering them out to scan.
Try manually loading one site as a single LTR Standard TRS and then try to Analyze the LCN positions
You will only grow in knowledge Grasshopper ;) I think they coined that phrase in Kung Fu with David C
 

gus426

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Hello Michael sorry about being slow to respong no I don't have the HP1 Extreme update buy I can try out what you suggest I do have the CCISD system loaded in my BCD436HP. I will eventually try all the systems that you want. Hopefully we can figure these systems out.


Hi Gus, does your Uniden Home Patrol HP-1 happen to have the extra $50 Extreme Upgrade ?
If not you can still have the "School" service type enabled and perform an LCN Finder to sort out LCN's.
Same goes for your BCD436HP to help figure out the proper LTR LCN map to track this system.
After such a point on your 436 you could HOLD on the CCISD TRS and Record when school is back in.
It makes sense that with CCISD using HR16 position that wrong 1-7 LCN positons won't let you scan.

Try starting there as some other of the systems are in the RRDB as LTR-Net filtering them out to scan.
Try manually loading one site as a single LTR Standard TRS and then try to Analyze the LCN positions
You will only grow in knowledge Grasshopper ;) I think they coined that phrase in Kung Fu with David C
 

Michael-SATX

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Morning Gus, slide over to your HP-1 and try it's version of LCN Finder on the CCISD LTR for now.
Tap Menu / Select Service Types / Page Down arrow 3 times where you can tap on the schools service
Tap accept / Tap Menu / Advanced Menu / Advanced Option / Analyze System / EDACS / LCN Finder
/ Select System / Type in "Corpus Christi" then Tap Accept / Looking at your system choices then
Tap Corpus Christi Independent School District / Tap Unconfirmed LCN / The LCN Finder screen
now appears listing your CCISD LTR freqs in raw order. Hopefully if reception is strong and these repeaters
broadcast automatic CWID's data that should start filling in the squares as to which frequencies
line up to what LCN (Logical Channel Number) positions. Only if all LCN positions are found will you
have the option to Tap save. Otherwise it will stay grayed out. Take notes as to your results and
especially what frequency belongs in the LCN#16 slot which is this systems HR (Home Repeater).
LCN#16 is where all talkgroups will be transmitted on first if that frequency is available and not busy.
Think back to why the site name is titled "Unconfirmed LCN" it's because nobody has Confirmed them
Normally once you map out these frequency positions you could include along with your submission
to correct the CCISD in the RRDB an updated site name like Confirmed LCN or maybe it's location etc.
Please keep in mind from the time you submit the correct order it will take 1 to 2 weeks to make the
weekly RRDB Uniden Sentinel Master Database update. Example you could nail this down in less than
an hour finding the message "ALL LCN's FOUND" Tap OK to SAVE submit your findings and jump the
gun doing a Sentinal Master Database update and find that your CCISD changes have not yet made
the updated RRDB version. So Grasshopper be patient and know YOU can may a difference in CC, TX !

Here is a thought try also turning on the Business, Security and Transportation type services in menu
and let your HP-1 's LCN Finder feature inspect the Industrial Communications (Corpus Christi) LTR !
This should have radio traffic and especially confirm that systems LCN#12 & LCN#20 in no time etc.
Try letting your 436 Hold and Record this LTR, also have the ID Search option set to ON to snag new TG's
Industrial Communications (Corpus Christi) Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies
You never know what new Talkgroups may be waiting to be discovered by your creative detective work.
Now run along now and heads up Santa may stuff your stocking with 1 item for every new TG you find ;)
 
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gus426

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I tried the HP-1 and I was not able to access the analyze function ...I think I can use my BCD436HP to analyze the system I started it but it only found 3 out of 7 I guess it needs to stay running for a long time? The Industrial Com. site is good that one I know works I do listen to it every now and then I can check for new talkgroups.
 

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Michael-SATX

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Get Santa to buy you the Extreme Upgrade for HP-1

I tried the HP-1 and I was not able to access the analyze function ...I think I can use my BCD436HP to analyze the system I started it but it only found 3 out of 7 I guess it needs to stay running for a long time? The Industrial Com. site is good that one I know works I do listen to it every now and then I can check for new talkgroups.

Gus, both my HP-1's were upgraded with the Extreme upgrade and I strongly recommend you go for it !
When you following my detailed exact steps you must have seen features grayed out not yet available
without the Extreme key upgrade code being entered to unlock several more powerful features for you !
So spring for the upgrade and you won't be sorry. I might even grab a 3rd HP-1E I love them so much !
Try for kicks to manually create a favorites list in Sentinel of your CCISD system and try performing
an LCN Finder under Edit favorites list. It's more steps that way and might also require the E upgrade ?
Yes LCN finding time needed all depends on signal strength, site traffic and if freqs CWID at reg intervals?

OK I am attaching a picture of what the HP-1 Extreme upgraded LCN Finder feature will look like to you.
The BC436HP just reveals in your pictured example that has found 2 out 7 ...leaving you to then ask
yourself which 2 frequencies and what are there actual LCN positions ! It's not very helpful vs the HP-1E ;)
So look carefully at my JPG image and you with see graphically the found LCN's are positions 1,3,5,7,9 .
In this example the freqs were programed highest to lowest. ie 860.8125 is LCN#1 and 856.8125 is LCN#9.
This detailed graphical data display is easy to quickly read and especially the inactive and dead frequencies will stand out.
Additional powerful Extreme upgrade features are it's Discovery sorted out TG recording mode making it all so nice to help ID TG's !
Also the Activity Log that gives you play by play detailed backend system activity data letting you know which freqs are being called on.
In the attached example one now has the corrected system structure to submit to the RRDB so downloaders can now scan this system OK :)
 

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gus426

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I registered my HP1 But I'm not quite ready to give away $50.00 though I did that for my BCD436HP but we have Provoice on our system here. I'm still thinking about do the upgrade don't give up on me lol I still have my BCD436HP monitoring the CCISD system but it's been on FOUND LCN 3/7 for a day now.

Gus
 

Michael-SATX

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Ok Gus if it's been a day already and it is not done yet it appears that trying to map out your CCISD system
while school is out for Christmas �� and thus no traffic is not optimal at this time.Try again later in 2 weeks.
For a comparison try your 436 on Industrial Communications LTR system to see how far that goes ?
Also Hold on System and Record and see if you catch any new fish �� swimming in the either ocean ��
Hmm, Austin still has a fighting chance of performing and submitting an updated LCN Finder proceedure
that I asked for local help on up in Austin in a thread way back on Oct 31 2017 In updating their outdated
S & P Communications LTR system. Happy fishing and have a very Merry Christmas ��
Gotta hit the sleigh now!
 
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gus426

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Now with Christmas out of the way almost I should be able to spend more time on the scanner stuff. So hopefully I can start monitoring some of these systems here. I know Industrial Com. is good I've listened to some stuff on there maybe I'll find something new!
 

gus426

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I'm posting this picture to show you What I've been able to get so far so you'll know I'm working on it it keeps stopping on 3 out of 7. I know I'm supposed to check again when school is back in session.

Gus
 

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Michael-SATX

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Hello Gus I see you figured out how to import your 436 LCN Finder logs into Sentinel to study the results !
Now that's real progress to nail down 3 LCN's including the LCN#16 which is the prized Home Repeater.
Go submit just those 3 LCN's and after your submission makes the weekly update then folks can scan it.

The CCISD site at 3533 South Alameda is very low powered 30 watts with only a 23ft tall Bldg antenna
and was installed by S&P Communications (ie Mr Nathan Sherman co-owner of S&P located in SATX)
Their FCC License WQG1773 shows S&P submitted 3 possible modes to allow future digital upgrades.
Emission Designators:11K2F3E=Analog/LTR, 4K00F3E=Digital/NEXEDGE, 8K00F7W=Dig/NEXEDGE

Current Wrong info:1 451.6625 2 461.9375 3 461.9625 4 462.1625 5 463.4875 6 463.8375 7 464.5875

Your Findings Info:LCN#1=463.4875, LCN#11=462.1625, LCN#16=451.6625 (Confirmed LCN's so far)

Check the 4 leftover freqs for activity by manually tuning to: 461.9375, 461.9625, 463.8375, 464.5875.
So on these 4 freqs do you hear any Digital activity ? Or heck even 2-sec LTR Passport data bursts ?
Also check for their school buses on FCC License WPVA857 IG 30Watt freqs of 464.0750 & 464.3250.
I'll bet this small LTR Standard site likely only uses 3 freqs - here in SA S&P has two 2 freq LTR sites.
So check those other 4 leftovers on the LTR license and you just might even turn up an unid NEXEDGE?
Keep your current Sentinel DB version, submit current changes and re-check LCN finder after school
is back in session to see if any more than 3 LTR freqs get discovered but I doubt it. I think you got it ;)

Your CCISD submission would go as follows: (You could even cut n paste the following to save time)

Hello, I wish to submit the following 2 changes to the CCISD LTR Standard TRS in Nueces County, TX.

1) Edit site name from "Unconfirmed LCN" to "South Alameda " (a handy tradition to show site location)

2) Edit site freqs to only show these 3 freqs: LCN#1=463.4875, LCN#11=462.1625, LCN#16=451.6625

Thank You,
gus426
 
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Michael-SATX

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And the crowd goes wild ! make that newbie a starter !!!

Hello Case (stwc) with what Gus found and you shoring things up with LTR Analyzer CCISD is solved.
So an example when say LCN 16 CWID's it reports that both LCN#1 and LCN#11 are available as free.
If you crossed checked in LTR Analyzer while the other 2 reqs CWID and got the same map were good
What discriminator tapped scanner model did you feed into the LTR Analyzer program to do your work?

Great work coming to the table with LTR Analyzer, LCN Finder is a start but won't reveal an LTR map.
Your avatar may say "newbie" with 4 post for now but well fix that. Congrats on your 12/17 ham ticket.

While you have LTR Analyzer available go check the LTR mappings on some other low hanging fruit ;)
Try confirming that Texas A&M LTR really maps as 1234 with no gaps which is odd but very possible.
Texas A and M University Corpus Christi Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

Then sail on over to the Industrial Communications (Corpus Christi) LTR and verify the RRDB matches.
Industrial Communications (Corpus Christi) Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

If you need the LTR Analyzer-NET capable version to tackle the listed LTR-Net systems let me know.
You might see what your LTR Analyzer says about the Valero Refinery 2 sites with no TG's (yet) :)
Try each site separately and see how they map out. I wonder if Valero is LTR NET or 2x LTR standard?
Valero Refining (Corpus Christi) Trunking System, Corpus Christi, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

Thanks Mr Long and report back as soon as you or Gus have submited my above CCISD submission.
Remember that 0 to 0 game analogy all team Corpus has to do now is dunk that submission to score!
 
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gus426

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Sorry about being slow to respond i did analyze the Industrial Communications system I do believe it's correct in the database.

Frequency LCN
452.6500 2
451.8375 4
453.0000 8
452.8500 12
461.9125 14
451.2500 17
452.4375 20

I hope this helps!

Gus
 

gus426

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BTW Michael I submitted the CCISD new info. per your request but who know how long it will take to get updated. there are like 193 submissions in front of me..
 
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