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150mhz p25 sys on g5

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dougw65

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Just received my g5 and I’m having difficulty with a 150 meg p25 system (WYOLINK). I’m using the Unication software and importing from RR.
As you can see from photos,on 800 meg systems,the display indicates that the RFSS/SITE is being scanned and all works well. This info is absent when scanning the 150 p25 system and the g5 says “out of range”. I know I’m not out of range for this system! Conventional freqs in the 150 range are received without issue. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance😁70C48093-C370-4D14-94F5-544D95367579.jpegAEC59060-B69E-4153-B396-41921FDD1B3A.jpeg
 

N6ML

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Without knowing the system(s) you're trying to receive, and how you programmed them, we could only take wild guesses..........
 

JD21960

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Make sure you have Conventional P25 added to your Protocols section of the PPS before uploading.
 

dougw65

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Without knowing the system(s) you're trying to receive, and how you programmed them, we could only take wild guesses..........
Wyolink (wyoming) is the problem system. The others working are part of the Colorado DTRS They were programmed with the Unication pps software
 

N6ML

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Wyolink (a RRDB link would have been nice, but I found it) is a P25 trunked system - it's not a conventional protocol issue.

Still don't have any detail on how you programmed it. There's a bunch of sites for that system. Did you pick one that you know you're in range of? You could export your profile to a .unipps file and attach it here for review, if you like.
 

kruser

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Just received my g5 and I’m having difficulty with a 150 meg p25 system (WYOLINK). I’m using the Unication software and importing from RR.
As you can see from photos,on 800 meg systems,the display indicates that the RFSS/SITE is being scanned and all works well. This info is absent when scanning the 150 p25 system and the g5 says “out of range”. I know I’m not out of range for this system! Conventional freqs in the 150 range are received without issue. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance😁View attachment 103423View attachment 103424

The G5 uses a tiny internal only antenna for the VHF secondary band.
If your VHF signal is not strong, you may be out of luck. There is an option of buying the Amplified Charging base. It has an external antenna port that does feed signal from an external antenna to the VHF receiver in the G5. I must use this device to receive the VHF statewide system here when I'm indoors as my building is wrapped in a steel mesh making it like a Faraday cage.

Attaching an external antenna to the SMA connector on the G5 will NOT work for the secondary band.

Comparing signal levels from conventional analog signals is not a good test for signal strength from a VHF trunked system.
Plug in the control channel for the VHF site you are after into a regular scanner and see if you can hear the control channel with a very good signal on the scanner.
 

dougw65

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Wyolink (a RRDB link would have been nice, but I found it) is a P25 trunked system - it's not a conventional protocol issue.

Still don't have any detail on how you programmed it. There's a bunch of sites for that system. Did you pick one that you know you're in range of? You could export your profile to a .unipps file and attach it here for review, if you like.
The G5 uses a tiny internal only antenna for the VHF secondary band.
If your VHF signal is not strong, you may be out of luck. There is an option of buying the Amplified Charging base. It has an external antenna port that does feed signal from an external antenna to the VHF receiver in the G5. I must use this device to receive the VHF statewide system here when I'm indoors as my building is wrapped in a steel mesh making it like a Faraday cage.

Attaching an external antenna to the SMA connector on the G5 will NOT work for the secondary band.

Comparing signal levels from conventional analog signals is not a good test for signal strength from a VHF trunked system.
Plug in the control channel for the VHF site you are after into a regular scanner and see if you can hear the control channel with a very good signal on the scanner.
Thanks...that could be the reason. I’m awaiting arrival of the charger base so we’ll see what happens. I’m about 30 miles from the closest site which does have a good signal on my ic r8600.
 

dougw65

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Wyolink (a RRDB link would have been nice, but I found it) is a P25 trunked system - it's not a conventional protocol issue.

Still don't have any detail on how you programmed it. There's a bunch of sites for that system. Did you pick one that you know you're in range of? You could export your profile to a .unipps file and attach it here for review, if you like.

Thanks for your help! Kruser may have a point with the antenna configuration on the g5. I'm about 35 miles from the closest site ("85" on 154.070) It's signal is fine on my discone but not so on a duck antenna. I'm awaiting the amplified base so hopefully that will help

rr won't allow the .unipps extension :-(
 

kruser

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The little interior mounted secondary band antenna is formed from a solid wire and probably has a total length of 3 inches so it doesn't work so well at VHF frequencies. I'd guess they probably electrically extend the length using smd inductors or coils or even spiral shaped pcb traces to increase the length but it's still a poor arrangement for a device made to operate at VHF freqs.

Some others that bought the amplified charging base had issues with them. I never could figure out if it was a problem with their actual pager or the amplified charging base. Those with problems pretty much all had the same complaint that plugging in an outdoor antenna to the base's BNC jack did not help.
I saw a Unication response saying they were looking into the problem but I don't recall ever seeing them say it was fixed.

I myself had great luck and using the amplified charging base was really the only way I could ever use my G5 indoors on either band except with the very nearby 800 MHz county systems tower just down the street.

I have had times where plugging my G5 into the base did not give me a signal. It seems the contacts in the base unit or on the bottom of the G5 are finicky about being clean. Usually a quick wipe with a clean towel or maybe a tiny alcohol wipe always cured the issue for me. Others have reported the same poor connection issue as well. Many times I can simply reseat my G5 in the base and restore the external antenna signal with not cleaning needed.
I don't care for the tiny volume control knob on the base unit. It does usually get plenty loud even with the tiny front mounted speaker but I ended up finding an external speaker that has a better overall tone about it compared to the base units speaker.

I hope it helps improve your signal! I think it will if you give it the same signal line that's feeding your R8600.
The 8600's are nice receivers! I ended up buying a 2nd.
 

dougw65

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The little interior mounted secondary band antenna is formed from a solid wire and probably has a total length of 3 inches so it doesn't work so well at VHF frequencies. I'd guess they probably electrically extend the length using smd inductors or coils or even spiral shaped pcb traces to increase the length but it's still a poor arrangement for a device made to operate at VHF freqs.

Some others that bought the amplified charging base had issues with them. I never could figure out if it was a problem with their actual pager or the amplified charging base. Those with problems pretty much all had the same complaint that plugging in an outdoor antenna to the base's BNC jack did not help.
I saw a Unication response saying they were looking into the problem but I don't recall ever seeing them say it was fixed.

I myself had great luck and using the amplified charging base was really the only way I could ever use my G5 indoors on either band except with the very nearby 800 MHz county systems tower just down the street.

I have had times where plugging my G5 into the base did not give me a signal. It seems the contacts in the base unit or on the bottom of the G5 are finicky about being clean. Usually a quick wipe with a clean towel or maybe a tiny alcohol wipe always cured the issue for me. Others have reported the same poor connection issue as well. Many times I can simply reseat my G5 in the base and restore the external antenna signal with not cleaning needed.
I don't care for the tiny volume control knob on the base unit. It does usually get plenty loud even with the tiny front mounted speaker but I ended up finding an external speaker that has a better overall tone about it compared to the base units speaker.

I hope it helps improve your signal! I think it will if you give it the same signal line that's feeding your R8600.
The 8600's are nice receivers! I ended up buying a 2nd.

Thanks for all the help and info! Pretty sure it’s a signal problem and the base unfortunately didn’t help. Ok though as in my travels I often get closer to this system so I’ll probably still be able to monitor it. My only reluctance is that I started out with a g4 and was so pleased with its performance that I decided to pull the trigger on the g5 with the express purpose of being able to monitor the 150 mhz system...oh well. Not sure I need two Unications so might be selling one soon🤷‍♂️ This system is a bit flakey from my location anyway as I get spotty results when monitoring with my Unidens and see the most traffic when I use my 8600 on just the site freqs minus the control channel
 

kruser

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Thanks for all the help and info! Pretty sure it’s a signal problem and the base unfortunately didn’t help. Ok though as in my travels I often get closer to this system so I’ll probably still be able to monitor it. My only reluctance is that I started out with a g4 and was so pleased with its performance that I decided to pull the trigger on the g5 with the express purpose of being able to monitor the 150 mhz system...oh well. Not sure I need two Unications so might be selling one soon🤷‍♂️ This system is a bit flakey from my location anyway as I get spotty results when monitoring with my Unidens and see the most traffic when I use my 8600 on just the site freqs minus the control channel
That's a shame it didn't work.
If one of my Unidens decodes a VHF site pretty well using an outdoor antenna, my G5 will often do as good or better using the amplified charging base. But I find if the Uniden has a hard time maintaining a lock on the control channel, the G5 will usually fail as well as it drops in and out of range.
None of the VHF trunked sites here are simulcast so any radio that gets a solid signal will decode the voice traffic very well.
For Simulcast sites in the 7/800 bands, the G5 kicks butt and is very immune to strong nearby in band signals unlike the Uniden SDS series where their attempt at filters are also no help.

I do the same here and monitor some of the VHF P25 stuff using just the voice channels on an R8600 or the R30. Both those Icom's do very well for P1 signals as long as the trunked system is not a super busy system.
Our Moswin system looks a lot like the Wyolink system where the VHF sites don't have a lot of voice channels per site. Most our VHF sites have two voice channels, 1 Primary and 1 Secondary control channel and an ID channel. The secondary CC and the ID channel can and do become voice channels but only during the rare times the two voice channels are in use. This makes monitoring the voice traffic from those sites pretty easy on one of the Icom's!

All in all, the G5 is a nice radio as long as you can get a decent signal into it. They can have issues with VHF again when used inside a vehicle where the steel body shields the signals. I'm surprised Unication has not come out with a charging cradle that also supplies an external antenna signal for use in a mobile environment.
There are contacts on the bottom of the G5 that are a direct connection to the VHF receiver. Two pins are signal ground and another pin is RF in for the G5 but it only works for the secondary band (VHF in our case). If one could find a mating connector and fabricate a drop in socket to hold the G5, they could make a cradle that would supply external signal to the secondary band.
The same contact for the secondary band also supplies signal to the primary band but Unication does something to enable that using the amplified charging base. The contact for external antenna is always live for the secondary band though. That makes experimenting with an external antenna for the secondary band pretty easy. Just don't try and solder to the contacts!
Somewhere in a thread in this forum is a picture of the pinout of the bottom of a G series pager. That may help if you are up to experimenting.
 

jonwienke

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The decision to feed the G5 secondary band from an inefficient internal antenna, with no external option, is just stupid. The G5 is much better than the SDS100 in the 7/800 band, but using the internal antenna cripples its performance to not much different than the SDS100.
 

FishScan

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The secondary band of the pager is designed to pick up local tone outs for VHF/UHF systems. The antenna works very well compared to other pagers. It is not designed to be a long range receiver. If you want VHF or UHF from outside of network your going to have to get a G2.
 

jonwienke

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But the poor design borks the usefulness of the G5 whenever the primary system is not 7/800, like VA-STARS or WV-SIRN. There should be an option to connect all bands to an external antenna.
 

bob550

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The decision to feed the G5 secondary band from an inefficient internal antenna, with no external option, is just stupid. The G5 is much better than the SDS100 in the 7/800 band, but using the internal antenna cripples its performance to not much different than the SDS100.
They'd rather sell you a VHF G2 to go with your G5.
 

scanlist

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Denver fire has a station alerting and dispatch simulcast on the same frequency 154.070 as the control channel
for the Wyolink site the OP is attempting to lock on to.

DFD has a fairly strong signal to the North of Denver as it located on Mt Morrison and does knock out the CC signal at my location which is
East of Loveland.

Another factor is the voice channel signals are much weaker than the CC to the South of the Wyolink site.

.
 
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