A guy I know showed me a radio which I believed was a scanner. The radio in question was a scanner as well as a 2 way radio. He pressed the button and I heard it on my scanner. He was transmitting on the active PD frequency. What kind of radios are these and are they legal???
2 way scanners?
- Thread starter jayone
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You saw a two-way radio that probably had a "Scan" feature on it, like most of them do. They're legal, but your friend transmitting on the local PD frequency without permission sure isn't.
jayone said:
Do you know what kind of radio it was?
Pretty much any two way built lately has a scan feature on it.
djeplett
Member
It could also be a ham radio. I use mine as scanners all the time and they usually can be modified to transmit out of band also. (Obviously, you must have the proper permission to transmit out of ham bands or you will at the least be fined and most likely lose your license.)
Hi all,
Yes, it could have been an >illegaly< modified ham tranciever. (Such are type accepted but ONLY for the Amateur Radio service so such use is illegal.)
Also, in many places a ham receiver >used for< monitoring police transmissions is illegal. That's where many hams are confused, as of August 20 1993 ham receivers CAPABLE of receiving police and other emergency services were exempted but the declatory ruling by the FCC makes no mention of USE. Therefore, a receiver capable of such reception falls under federal preemption but one used for it does not, all state and local laws apply.
Here's a twist, scanners. Many hams use scanners for auxilliary receivers so one programmed exclusively for ham reception is also exempt but one programmed for emergency services is not regardless of whether or not it also is programmed with ham frequencies. Yes, a scanner is obviously capable but again it's use that counts.
The bottom line is what it's used for, not what it's capable of that makes it legal or illegal. FYI, the word that fits is "intent" and you'd be surprised how the legal eagles use it to hang you. For example, a CBer may not even own a power amplifier or illegally modified rig, that is even if it's not connected, just sitting in a closet. The FCC will bust his britches because of that little word, the law assumes intent (the intent to use it).
Yes, it could have been an >illegaly< modified ham tranciever. (Such are type accepted but ONLY for the Amateur Radio service so such use is illegal.)
Also, in many places a ham receiver >used for< monitoring police transmissions is illegal. That's where many hams are confused, as of August 20 1993 ham receivers CAPABLE of receiving police and other emergency services were exempted but the declatory ruling by the FCC makes no mention of USE. Therefore, a receiver capable of such reception falls under federal preemption but one used for it does not, all state and local laws apply.
Here's a twist, scanners. Many hams use scanners for auxilliary receivers so one programmed exclusively for ham reception is also exempt but one programmed for emergency services is not regardless of whether or not it also is programmed with ham frequencies. Yes, a scanner is obviously capable but again it's use that counts.
The bottom line is what it's used for, not what it's capable of that makes it legal or illegal. FYI, the word that fits is "intent" and you'd be surprised how the legal eagles use it to hang you. For example, a CBer may not even own a power amplifier or illegally modified rig, that is even if it's not connected, just sitting in a closet. The FCC will bust his britches because of that little word, the law assumes intent (the intent to use it).
djeplett
Member
kb2vxa said:
Unless of course it was >legally< modified for use in the Military Affiliate Radio System (MARS). Once again, you must have permission to use it in those services or you face the consequences.
djeplett said:
"Proper permission" or not, you cannot legally use a ham HT on the Public Safety bands with the single exception of summoning help for an emergency of life or property being in imminent danger. There is an exemption in Part 97 (the FCC's ham rules) that says (paraphrased) nothing in the rules shall prohibit a ham from using ANY frequency at his disposal to summon help in (such a case). But use at any other time on the PS bands is always illegal - period.
You can use them on the ham bands or on the MARS/CAP bands for routine use, but that's it. Of course, you need to be a member of MARS/CAP to use those bands, and I think even their rules are changing that are requiring type accepted radios for that service. You can't just use anything on CAP anymore. I'm pretty sure I recall reading that.
Joe M.
djeplett
Member
Obviously, the legal eagles here are jumping all over my post because they want to point out the illegality of what your friend did, jayone. And they are all totally correct. Even if your friend was an off duty police officer or fireman he was transmitting illegally. And he may have been doubly illegal if the radio in question was a ham radio, too. Only a type accepted radio may transmit on frequencies allocated to public safety unless it is in a clear life threatening emergency.
The whole point of my original post was to point out the possibility that it could be a ham radio. In no way am I promoting the use of such a radio on public safety frequencies. Regardless of the legality of the radio, the possiblility exists.
jayone, your friend most likely was transmitting illegally when he showed you that radio. Since he either is ignorant of the law or simply doesn't care there's nothing stopping him from having a modified ham radio.
The whole point of my original post was to point out the possibility that it could be a ham radio. In no way am I promoting the use of such a radio on public safety frequencies. Regardless of the legality of the radio, the possiblility exists.
jayone, your friend most likely was transmitting illegally when he showed you that radio. Since he either is ignorant of the law or simply doesn't care there's nothing stopping him from having a modified ham radio.
Otto
Member
Nothing is Illegal...
Unless you get caught...
Unless you get caught...
And its stupid remarks like that that give our hobby a bad name.
N
N_Jay
Guest
Otto said:
The motto of a sociopath! :twisted:
You might want to have your buddy shack up with a long-lost relative or something. I'm sure the Police and the FCC are gearing up to come arrest him for using a radio. That's the most important thing they have to do is trace an unidentified kerchunk on their repeater and then have uncle charlie come find out if the radio is type accepted.
Yeah right, I'm pretty sure both this guy and his buddy have enough common sense to know that what he did probably doesnt need to happen all the time.
Oh, BTW, I keyed up on Iowa state patrol's local dispatch repeater a couple months ago with a Kenwood 2m that was MARS modified. Call the police.
Yeah right, I'm pretty sure both this guy and his buddy have enough common sense to know that what he did probably doesnt need to happen all the time.
Oh, BTW, I keyed up on Iowa state patrol's local dispatch repeater a couple months ago with a Kenwood 2m that was MARS modified. Call the police.
Its not wise to tempt some people since a simple search shows where you live and work. Again its people like you.....kc0jar said:
elk2370bruce
Member
Lots of things are clearly identified as illegal.... And Then You Get Caught. What's next? The Get Otto Outa Jail - Bail Fund Post? Maybe we can get Jerry Lewis to run a Telethon to fund the ethically challenged.
Al42
Member
Please let's not bring Foggy Bottom into this discussion.N_Jay said:
Otto
Member
kc0jar said:
At least somone here has a brain...
You guys are a little uptight, huh? Pull your heads out of your puckered starfish and see that the comment about the "illegal until cought" statement was in jest.
And to start off topic stuff about being type accepted and all that garbage... All the guy wanted to know if there was something like a "two way scanner" which of course there is (it's called a two way radio with scan feature enabled)...And you guys confuse him further with stuff about type acceptance et al...
Back in the day when I was a dispatcher for a small city (100,00 pop) we had several times when people actually keyed up on our dispatch channel playing public enemy (the rap band), and really, I remember there was very little we could do to track them outside of which voter had the strongest signal. I suppose if the transmissions where longer someone could "foxhunt" it, but these guys knew better. Come on do you really think that the FCC is gonna track a squelch trail that happened once on their PS system... I doubt it. Probably thought it was one of their own radios accidentally being bumped on the PTT (assuming that this is a conventional system) which happenes all the time. I mean geez, I remember when I was a Reserver Police Officer, by baton used to accidentally push the PTT all the time when I sat down in the patrol car (thats how they trained us, to always wear it) and it was not a huge problem...
And for all you know, he was only transmitting on the simplex side, or what have you...
Whatever.
Otto
Member
Dubbin said:
I make it even easier for ya...
My avatar is a picture of...... ME!
Call the PPB today because I have some radio equipment in my basement...
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