2009 FIRESCOPE Radio Communications Guidelines

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SCPD

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The 2009 FIRESCOPE Radio Communications Guidelines (MACS 441-1) is now available on the Internet at:

http://www.firescope.org/macs-docs/MACS-441-1.pdf

The most interesting change for this year is the designation of National Interagency Fire Center Commands 8 - 12. The frequencies are already known, if you have been following the development of the Department of Homeland Security "National Interoperability Field Operations Guide." Commands 8 -12 are the same as the VHF Incident Response NC 1 and IR 2-4 channels.

I have heard that NIFC Commands 13 - 18 are assigned by incident using "excess" or unused federal frequencies in a relatively small area of the nation. California has 4 of these areas. So as the fire season begins to wind up we all need to listen to those large incidents and report the frequencies in use.

I'm thankful that I now have a couple of PSR-600's and their large memory capacity to easily add these new frequencies to all my files.
 

lorin

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Is it possible to input all of those Firescope Frequencies into the database under "Firescope" ? I would like to download all those channels to my scanner, but I do not want to input each one, one at a time?
Just a thought??

Thanks

Lorin
 

SCPD

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The database administrator for this would be "duster" and I will send him a PM and see what can be done.
 

Duster

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The database administrator for this would be "duster" and I will send him a PM and see what can be done.

Hey Fred (and members),

Got your PM, just haven't answered it yet. I'll take a look and see where we can plug them in. At first thought though, we will probably end up with them in the CAL FIRE loadout or on the CalEMA page. I'll ask around and let you know.

EDIT: We have a Firescope entry under Cal EMA. I'll just need to go in and update it with any changes. It's going to be a few days though, I have work commitments the rest of the week. I'll look into it next week. Fred, can you submit a work ticket, in it just put "ATTN: Duster. Reminder to Update FIRESCOPE"? Enter it under the Cal EMA page. Appreciate it, thanks. I'll watch for it and put it in my queue to remind me.

David
 
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SCPD

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Hey Fred (and members),

Got your PM, just haven't answered it yet. I'll take a look and see where we can plug them in. At first thought though, we will probably end up with them in the CAL FIRE loadout or on the CalEMA page. I'll ask around and let you know.

EDIT: We have a Firescope entry under Cal EMA. I'll just need to go in and update it with any changes. It's going to be a few days though, I have work commitments the rest of the week. I'll look into it next week. Fred, can you submit a work ticket, in it just put "ATTN: Duster. Reminder to Update FIRESCOPE"? Enter it under the Cal EMA page. Appreciate it, thanks. I'll watch for it and put it in my queue to remind me.

David

We need to establish a new page in the database titled "National Incident Radio Support Cache" or "National Interagency Fire Center," or if needed due to space limits, "Federal Fire Radio System" under the California Areawide Frequencies tab. Since it is a federal interagency system, it doesn't belong under the National Park Service or the U.S. Forest Service pages as it is used by all the federal land management agencies. Presently The only place this federal incident radio system is listed is on the Wiki pages. It is a place not everyone visits for information on this system, and even if they did it is very hard to locate the information. I will update the Wiki to include the new command frequencies, but they need to be in the database where they belong.

I also think that an area wide tab under the database national map showing this NIFC system and the national interoperability channel plans, both federal and non-federal. As the 2013 deadline for narrow banding non-federal radio systems draws closer, some agencies are already meeting the narrow band standards. These interoperability frequencies will see increasing use on large incidents be they fire, law enforcement, medical, or natural disasters. Rather than list them state by state in the manner I suggested above for the NIFC system in California why can't they be listed on the nationwide page?

In addition to the NIFC and the national interoperability frequencies I think the common frequencies for business and the federal government should be listed on the nationwide page of the database. Navigating the Wiki is too difficult and many people, especially novices, don't think to look there. I've answered many PM's where people ask me for the NIFC incident radio system frequencies and I have to direct them to the Wiki, and some have replied they can't find the listing.

I will send you a reminder.

Thanks David!!

P.S. I sent you the reminder:
Your submission was received and assigned ticket # 91734

I realize that my suggestions for adding a tab with nationwide area frequencies is out of your purview. So if you could suggest this to the "upper management" and state the case I've made for it here, it would be appreciated.
 
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That would be great! Last year on the big sur fire I had so many frequencies I didn't know what was wha and the wiki was that so great. Lucky Exsmokey knew some of the frequencies, but some were new to him and he didn't know them.
 

SCPD

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That would be great! Last year on the big sur fire I had so many frequencies I didn't know what was wha and the wiki was that so great. Lucky Exsmokey knew some of the frequencies, but some were new to him and he didn't know them.

There has been more change to the NIFC system in the last two years than in the ten years since I retired. The biggest change is in the logistics, camp, and linking frequencies (all UHF). These are the least listened to and my source would be burned if I shared them so I haven't updated the Wiki using that information. Maybe someday!

With this system of selecting frequencies from unused federal frequencies in an assigned area (four in California) we may see a lot of different frequencies used when the first 12 command channels are not used, all the air to ground (7 of them permanently assigned) and all 7 tacticals are not assigned. The search function will have to be used when near a large fire or other incident.

Do not forget to scan the four federal government interagency tactical channels that we allocated when the narrow band mandate of Jan. 2005 started to be implemented. I listed those on the Wiki. These might be used as tacticals. They are listed as crew net frequencies (intra-crew) which can be used in the analog mode with different PL's being used by each crew, or in the digital mode using NAC's. I have heard of them being used as tacticals on large fires, primarily on federal fires with very few state and local resources assigned as they are all narrow band. As state and local agencies implement narrow band you will see more use of these 4 frequencies.

I had removed 163.100 and 168.350 in my large fire and natural resource scan lists because the NTIA Redbook of 2005 listed these as being allocated for federal itinerant portable repeater use only, not to be used simplex. I've already seen some frequency assignments shown in the Southwest Geographical Area Coordination Center 2009 mobilization plan as a simplex travel net. I've picked up on some other information that the Northern and Intermountain GACC's are doing the same, even though I don't have information for 2009 in these areas. The mobilization plans for all but California and the Southwest do not list frequency information that is accessible to the public. I've put them back into the scan lists of my files.

These might even still be used for tacticals in National Parks. In California the two parks with the heaviest workload (Yosemite and Sequoia-Kings) now have their own air to ground and park tactical frequencies unique to each park. It would not surprise me if parks such as Death Valley are still using 168.350 as their tactical. If you don't hear anything on 168.350 in use as a tactical then try one of the four interagency tacticals that I spoke of before.

Theads of this type start winding up at this time of the year. Due to fires occuring all winter in Texas and a strong fire season in the southeast, this fire season is already significantly ahead in acreage than average. All he agencies have already accomplished over 1.8 million acres of controled burns this year and something just above 3 million acres is the record. Hopefully this will keep up and a record will be set, it all depends on fuel moisture and weather. Prescribed burniing is needed to improve and/or restore forest health.

Time will tell as to how significant this fire season will be in the west.

A large change in fire policy occured over the winter. Not all human caused fires will be extinquished. In the past only naturally ignited fires wer allowed to burn as a wildland fire use fire. Now, if the human caused fire is beneficial to the resources it will be allowed to be a wildland fire use fire.
 

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I wouldn't share the linking frequencies, as that would open up the potential for malicious interference more than just the command and logs channels. In all of my lists, I've been keeping the linking channels away, along with a random listing of the VHF command input channels.

Besides, you won't hear the logs channels outside of camp, unless they have a repeater up; and the links are generally done with yagi antennas.
 

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Is it possible to input all of those Firescope Frequencies into the database under "Firescope" ? I would like to download all those channels to my scanner, but I do not want to input each one, one at a time?
Just a thought??

Thanks

Lorin

Database Admins have to enter them one at a time too. :D
 

SCPD

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I wouldn't share the linking frequencies, as that would open up the potential for malicious interference more than just the command and logs channels. In all of my lists, I've been keeping the linking channels away, along with a random listing of the VHF command input channels.

Besides, you won't hear the logs channels outside of camp, unless they have a repeater up; and the links are generally done with yagi antennas.

Besides we all know that logistics is BORING. Absolutely essential, incredibly important, but still BORING as far as the radio traffic. These jobs can be as stressful as those in Operations, Plans, and Finance. As has often been said "you can't march an army past its stomach."

The National Park Service and U.S. Forest Service have never used "yagi's," preferring their own model called "Yogi's." Think about it and just bear with me.
 

lorin

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Any Idea on when you mods will have the database updated? Wildland season is upon us ( May 1 ) and I would love to hear all base camp stuff?

Thanks in advance for inputing one freq. at a time!


Lorin
 

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Firescope is done!

Hello all,

The Firescope list has been completed for 2009. Most of the changes were minor, except for the addition of the rebanded 800mhz channels.

Several channels were narrowbanded for this year. The change has been reflected in the database.

All the channels in the plan are interop channels. I updated the tags to reflect who is authorized to use the channels, as several of them are restricted to specific users.

Also, there is one federal channel that was not in the 2009 plan, even though it has been part of a three-channel set for several years. I marked it as missing, but left it in the database. If it is still gone next year, or if Fred or another Federal user can confirm that it has been removed and not just forgotten, I will officially remove it from the list.

For this year, we will likely leave the Firescope list where it is. With other things going on behind the scenes, I don't think now is the time to tackle a larger multi-state list. However, that does sound like a good winter project for a couple of us, maybe after this fire season. Happy Monitoring!!

David
 

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The National Park Service and U.S. Forest Service have never used "yagi's," preferring their own model called "Yogi's." Think about it and just bear with me.

Yogis? You sure that's not a BooBoo? ;-)
 

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Error on CalFire Cmd 5

CalFire is (slowly) starting the narrow banding process. As you may have noticed in the 2009 FIRESCOPE Radio Communications Guideline, CalFire Command 5 is now narrow band. However, the freqs listed were incorrect. It should have read Rx 151.3175 and Tx 159.3525. Be safe out there.
 
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