2023 Somerset TRS Tropo Thread

[rr60]

Yet another season underway for band openings and system outages. UHF DTV signals
propagated two channel TV 19’s overnight and one station 500 miles away along the coast.

Opening date 5/23

While LEO has been moved off 500 MHZ Fire and EMS remain pinned down
on the Site (3) 500 MHZ cell. Certainly not “Mission Critical Ready”.

Frequently heard comments, ”Hey it’s working again”, ”Any reports of radio trouble?”. “Not getting anything from you at all”. Also seen control channel drop outs.

TV stations received at Mount Bethel, NJ tuner0

rabbitears.info

 

[richee2000]

time to move everything to 700, just like Morris County....

 

[FT752]

Frequently heard comments, ”Hey it’s working again”, ”Any reports of radio trouble?”. “Not getting anything from you at all”. Also seen control channel drop outs.

Are you sure this isn't Franklin District 3? Sounds like their reaction to the SmartZone system as it likes to failsoft a lot. "Uhh, our radios are showing failsoft again [failsoft beep]", "Do you know if there are any issues with the District 3 channel?".

 

[FT752]

time to move everything to 700, just like Morris County....

It's coming. Perhaps sooner than you think. However, my field assessment indicates that Fire will escape first, unlike Morris where EMS got priority.

 

[richee2000]

It's coming. Perhaps sooner than you think. However, my field assessment indicates that Fire will escape first, unlike Morris where EMS got priority.

Will there be additional frequencies allocated to the 700 cell based on the additional traffic requirements EMS and fire will present?

 

[FT752]

Will there be additional frequencies allocated to the 700 cell based on the additional traffic requirements EMS and fire will present?

Yes sir. Additional frequencies are due, and the 700 cell will be "strictly" enforced for TDMA operation. The number thrown at me was approximately 22 talkpaths when it is all said and done.

 

[rr60]

I can only wonder what is keeping the lights off on (6) additional channels gathering dust. Oh I know, it’s a secret.😳

 

[FT752]

I can only wonder what is keeping the lights off on (6) additional channels gathering dust. Oh I know, it’s a secret.😳

Mother M.

 

[rr60]

Mother M.

They must bring the label maker then. 😂 Chop chop!

 

[lynchy135]

the 700 cell will be "strictly" enforced for TDMA operation.

I believe this is the main reason behind the delay. I think they are looking to move entire regions (FD R1, FD R2, etc) over at the same time so they don't have any FDMA on 700. I don't know why they don't just do something similar to Morris and patch two talkgroups if that is the concern.

Someone should correct me, but the Dynamic Dual Mode will not allow a TG to be TDMA on a site if there is another FDMA radio at a different site?

 

[GTR8000]

More recent system releases of ASTRO 25 feature dynamic transcoding, which allows a TG to operate in FDMA on one site and TDMA on another, working in conjunction with DDM. Of course the system must be capable, all options purchased and provisioned, etc. for it to actually work. Oh and patching talkgroups sounds great on paper, but if you don't have the spectrum to support it, then you're going to run into issues.

Also keep in mind that Morris did not patch all talkgroups between the UHF and 700 cells, but rather only one or two at a time to support specific agencies that had coverage issues on UHF, and then cut the remaining 95% of EMS and Fire over in one shot two weeks apart.

 

[rr60]

More recent system releases of ASTRO 25 feature dynamic transcoding, which allows a TG to operate in FDMA on one site and TDMA on another, working in conjunction with DDM. Of course the system must be capable, all options purchased and provisioned, etc. for it to actually work. Oh and patching talkgroups sounds great on paper, but if you don't have the spectrum to support it, then you're going to run into issues.

Also keep in mind that Morris did not patch all talkgroups between the UHF and 700 cells, but rather only one or two at a time to support specific agencies that had coverage issues on UHF, and then cut the remaining 95% of EMS and Fire over in one shot two weeks ap

Interesting. The Somerset 700 cell when enabled will likely have 12 channels (by my unofficial count). This is the same capacity as NJICS Site 7 Union County. That cell has incredible number of users and TG’s, both FDMA & TDMA than you can shake a stick at. Somerset will not come close to what is going on there.

 

[GTR8000]

So they're replacing 14 traffic channels of mixed FDMA/TDMA usage with 11 traffic channels that will be TDMA only. That seems reasonable given the breakdown of the county's talkgroups.

It's not about the sheer number of talkgroups provisioned, but all about the actual system loading. Union County has a bunch of "fluff" talkgroups as I call them, stuff like 3+ PD talkgroups that are seldom used, a bunch of OEM talkgroups, etc. Yes there are also state talkgroups carried on that cell, but Somerset has so many regions, similar to Morris, that there are going to be times when many of them are active simultaneously. And of course if disaster strikes, even just a bad thunderstorm blowing through can spike the loading quite high.

Morris's 700 cell has 10 total frequencies, all talkgroups strapped TDMA, so Somerset eventually having 12 is not unreasonable.

 

[FT752]

Right, exactly. On a fair day, there will not be egregious loading. Plus, Morris is serving the same users from their UHF on 700. Somerset is only taking Public Safety onto 700. County and municipal services stay UHF, which means all the DPW and Parks will not be taking up PS space during their hours of operation.

 

[rr60]

Another overnight and early morning system outage DTV Tropo 5/24.

Somerset Site 3 suffering again. I am seeing (3) CH19 pilot signal spikes! TV on 500-506 wide from Boston to Norfolk rolling in. Bonk. Not mission critical.

 

[8000XE]

Interesting. The Somerset 700 cell when enabled will likely have 12 channels (by my unofficial count). This is the same capacity as NJICS Site 7 Union County. That cell has incredible number of users and TG’s, both FDMA & TDMA than you can shake a stick at. Somerset will not come close to what is going on there.

Not to get too far off topic - NJICS is expanding site 7 to include 1 more subsite and increase capacity to 17 channels.

 

[rr60]

More subsites a good thing. I suspect this maybe looking down into Summit?

NJICS Northwest Region 2 is the backup today for some, and many are grateful to have that resource available. Somerset continues to deny access to Site 4 for Fire and EMS even in emergencies when no possible capacity issues exist. Incredible but true. The State has been a remarkable leader with the NJICS. They have opened access and improved coverage. Sadly others have not learned from this example.

Back on topic, the RF energy is not understood as a result of the repack. As you know KW is in thousands. We are talking a million watts to 600,000 watts.

Lastly thanks to Lindsay Blanton @blantonl for RR, as it is a fabulous resource to share awareness and help improve life safety.

Edit: Somerset can you hear me now? 😳

 

[GTR8000]

Oh I'm sure the PTB in Somerset are hanging on every word posted here to learn how they can improve their system! 🤣

 

[FT752]

Oh totally!

 

[rr60]

EUPHEMISM…..Can you hear me now?