3rd brake light mount or front stake pocket mount? And which antenna?

[royta]

I have a 2015 Dodge Ram 2500 MegaCab that I have owned 10 years this month and I'm finally getting around to installing my TM-V71A radio.

I bought the Comet NCG fender mount but the angles aren't quite right and it digs into the fender and paint. I even bought a second one that was easily returnable, hoping that my first one was pressed incorrectly. No such luck. I tried a different brand of Fender mount bracket and it didn't fit well enough for my pickiness either. So the fender mount isn't an option. I've read that an antenna in a front stake pocket will couple with the C-pillar of the cab and give you horrible SWR , which is too bad because I like the look and I like the antenna's accessibility and ease of removing for the car wash. So I ordered a Bullet Proof Diesel 3rd brake light mount. Wow, super expensive after shipping and tax. I've got buyer's remorse, but I'm not sure what else to do. I hate the look of the antenna at the rear stake pocket and I'm not drilling the roof.

I've ran a Larsen NMO2/70B since I got my ticket in 2007. It's a great antenna, but will be 9" taller than my garage entrance if I use the 3rd brake light mount. So I need to settle on a daily commuting use antenna that will work when not centered on the roof. I will swap out to the taller Larsen when I'm on long drives. I'm looking at the Larsen NMO2/70SH or a Diamond NR72BNMO. The Diamond is designed for a side mount, but it's short at only 14". However, it's black and looks nicer than the 19" stainless Larsen. How does the Larsen perform on a side mount installation? I'll run the Larson if it performs better.

Thanks for the help, everyone. Yes, I'm nitpicky, an over researcher, and things have to be perfect. But not perfect enough to drill the thin sheet metal roof of my truck. I can just imagine a low branch putting an irreparable dent in the top of my truck.

 

[AK9R]

Did you consider wrapping the NCG fender mount with heavy tape, aka "helicopter tape", to cut down on the abrasion with the truck?

Breedlove supposedly makes the best stake pocket mounts.

Stake Pocket Brackets

Pick up Stake Pocket Bracket

breedlovemounts.com

Will a stake pocket mount close to the cab have poor SWR? Probably. Will it be horrible? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[mmckenna]

and I'm not drilling the roof.

That's too bad.
One of the challenge with the 3rd brake light mounts is that they hang the antenna off the back of the ground plane, which will make SWR tricky and makes the radiation pattern lopsided. For ideal performance, you really want it in the center of a ground plane.
But given your limitations, it's probably the better of the options. It gets it above the cab and in the clear and will have at least half a ground plane.
But watch out for those mounts, numerous reports of them leaking over time. Keep an eye on the back of the cab.

I'm looking at the Larsen NMO2/70SH or a Diamond NR72BNMO. The Diamond is designed for a side mount, but it's short at only 14". However, it's black and looks nicer than the 19" stainless Larsen. How does the Larsen perform on a side mount installation? I'll run the Larson if it performs better.

Never used the NMO-2/70SH on a side mount, I always ran my antennas on the cab roof. It's a good antenna though. I had one for about 20 years before I passed it over to my brother in law, so it's nearing 30 years old now. Still as good as new.

On the cab roof, I doubt you'll notice the color, they tend to blend in to the sky. If it's a real show-stopper, add some black heat shrink tubing.

Thanks for the help, everyone. Yes, I'm nitpicky, an over researcher, and things have to be perfect. But not perfect enough to drill the thin sheet metal roof of my truck. I can just imagine a low branch putting an irreparable dent in the top of my truck.

Unless Dodge uses really crappy sheet metal, you won't have an issue. Probably thousands of Dodge pickups in public works/utility service that have antennas mounted on the roof without issue. I've installed permanent NMO mounts on the cabs of all my work trucks and personal trucks, including aluminum body Fords, all without issue. That includes one that got into a low parking garage and bent the antenna back 90º at the base, and did zero damage to the roof. Work truck runs up and down overgrown access roads with 2 stiff antennas on the roof, and no issues.

I understand that many don't feel comfortable drilling holes, but don't let bad info/preconceived notions keep you from having a well performing antenna system. It'll outperform any of the compromise mounts, and be much cheaper than the 3rd brake light mounts.

 

[mrweather]

A lot of the public works/utilities around here mount their 2-way antennas on the truck's headache rack. I guess performance is "good enough".

 

[royta]

Did you consider wrapping the NCG fender mount with heavy tape, aka "helicopter tape", to cut down on the abrasion with the truck?

Breedlove supposedly makes the best stake pocket mounts.

Stake Pocket Brackets

Pick up Stake Pocket Bracket

breedlovemounts.com

Will a stake pocket mount close to the cab have poor SWR? Probably. Will it be horrible? Maybe. Maybe not.

with the fender mount, the flat part with the bolt hole doesn't lay flat on the fender because the formed angle closest to the outside wedges against the fender. There are two angles on different planes and they don't match the angles of the fender. Yes, I used the one for my year of truck. I've got pictures galore that show the problem. It's kind of frustrating, but what can you do? Truck's are different now and have all kinds of fancy body lines to make them look, well, fancy. The fender mounts I used on a 1990 Jeed Cherokee and 1997 Dodge Ram 2500 fit perfectly, but those vehicles weren't what new trucks are.

 

[k6cpo]

That's too bad.

Unless Dodge uses really crappy sheet metal, you won't have an issue. Probably thousands of Dodge pickups in public works/utility service that have antennas mounted on the roof without issue. I've installed permanent NMO mounts on the cabs of all my work trucks and personal trucks, including aluminum body Fords, all without issue. That includes one that got into a low parking garage and bent the antenna back 90º at the base, and did zero damage to the roof. Work truck runs up and down overgrown access roads with 2 stiff antennas on the roof, and no issues.

I understand that many don't feel comfortable drilling holes, but don't let bad info/preconceived notions keep you from having a well performing antenna system. It'll outperform any of the compromise mounts, and be much cheaper than the 3rd brake light mounts.

I installed a 19" Larsen on an NMO on the roof of my 1998 Dodge Dakota. I drilled the hole myself without issue. It's been on there since 2013 without any evidence of leakage. I don't have a garage, so height isn't an issue. I don't know about current Dodge/Ram vehicles, but the sheet metal on my '98 is fairly substantial. The paint is another matter...

 

[DeoVindice]

What? Drill the hole. Use a commercial-grade multiband antenna with a spring base if it makes you feel better.

 

[mmckenna]

I don't have a garage, so height isn't an issue.

My wife drives a slightly raised Chevy Colorado with a permanent NMO on the roof with a 1/4 wave VHF antenna. In/out of the garage every day with no issue. I'm sure no true Dodge fan will admit that a Dodge isn't as good as a Ford or Chevy…..

 

[vagrant]

With poor or no ground plane, like a third brake light mount, I found that the Compactenna performs very well. The height of the antenna is nine inches or less, so I think that will still allow you to pull into the garage based on your Larsen height measurement.

I have tested that antenna using various mounts on my vehicle. I also tested the antenna suspended in the air using a string to hold it and it offered a great sweep. Still, I recommend you do some research. This antenna has been around for a while now and I figure there are plenty of reviews/videos. It would be one of the two options for me with any vehicle, boat, ATV, etc., that has a poor or no ground plane mounting point up high at the roof, or as high as you can get it.

Alternatively, if one is going to drill a hole in the middle of the roof that provides an adequate ground plane, perhaps just use a 1/4 wave antenna.

 

[AK9R]

My wife drives a slightly raised Chevy Colorado with a permanent NMO on the roof with a 1/4 wave VHF antenna. In/out of the garage every day with no issue. I'm sure no true Dodge fan will admit that a Dodge isn't as good as a Ford or Chevy...

Really? What do you think the roof height of your wife's Chevy Colorado is relative to a Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab?

 

[mmckenna]

Really? What do you think the roof height of your wife's Chevy Colorado is relative to a Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab?

If it's a 2wd Ram, probably pretty close. Her's is a Colorado ZR2 which sits a few inches higher than a standard Colorado.

Either way, I was responding to k6cpo's comment about his Dakota:

I installed a 19" Larsen on an NMO on the roof of my 1998 Dodge Dakota.

A 1/4 wave whip is pretty flexible and isn't going to have an issue flexing as it goes in/out of a garage.

 

[OkieBoyKJ5JFG]

I've tried the Breedlove front rail mount, which puts the antenna in essentially the same position as the front stake pocket mount, and my experience was that the cab interferes too much with the signal to get the distance I want, and antennas just don't like it. The only antenna on any band I've found that could get an SWR of less than 2.0:1 across the entire band is a 40" whip CB antenna. In fact, that's the only place on the truck where its SWR doesn't skyrocket. The rear stake pocket positions can also be challenging, but I found that a Diamond SG7900 NGP antenna is very happy there, driver or passenger side, it doesn't matter. SWRs are well below 2.0:1 on 2m, 70cm, and GMRS and on MURS it crosses 2.0:1 at 154.6 MHz. Really a good antenna for my purposes! I also just today installed a Comet SBB225 2m/1.25m/70cm triband antenna on the rear. It isn't officially a NGP antenna, but on the driver side, its SWRs on all three bands are perfect. On the passenger side, they're off the chart. I have no idea why.

To make a long story short, I recommend you avoid the front stake pockets altogether and use a NGP antenna on a rear stake pocket mount. I just can't get good results with the antenna that close to the cab. YMMV. On my slightly-lifted 2009 Ram, the tip of the Diamond is 112 inches off the ground, but you can probably find a good NGP dual-band antenna that isn't that long. In fact, the Comet 2x4 (which is not NGP) showed good SWRs on 70cm and GMRS, but on 2m it ran 1.75-2.25:1. That probably wouldn't actually be a problem -- the 2.0:1 cutoff is arbitrary -- but I really wanted something with more gain anyway. I'll bet you can find something that works if you go to a rear stake pocket instead of a front one.

 

[OkieBoyKJ5JFG]

With poor or no ground plane, like a third brake light mount, I found that the Compactenna performs very well. The height of the antenna is nine inches or less, so I think that will still allow you to pull into the garage based on your Larsen height measurement.

I have the dual-band Compactenna, and in a thread where I was asking about a 1.25m antenna for a poor ground plane, someone (maybe even you?) recommended it. I tried mine on a rear stake pocket mount and SWRs sucked. I don't know if you got lucky or I got unlucky, but it discouraged me from buying the tri-band one for my truck. The Compactenna runs like a champ on the roof of my car where it has a good ground plane, so if I like using the 220 band and want to put it in my car, I'll probably go with a tri-band Compactenna.

 

[Golay]

Myself, I agree with all that say just drill the hole. And put an NMO mount in. When you want to sell the truck, put a rain cap on the mount. People will think it's a GPS antenna, won't affect resale at all.